Employment Opportunities for T2 and Small firm to Large Firm

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shay2171
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Employment Opportunities for T2 and Small firm to Large Firm

Postby shay2171 » Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:30 pm

Hi all,

I have a very serious question about employment prospects for a Backend T1 or a solid T2 school? What are the chances of employment in the 45-65,000 range?

particularly: University of Wisconsin, UF, U San Diego, and Marquette. still waiting to hear back from American, George Mason, George Washington, Fordham, Cardozo and some T14's I know will send rejections, but I just had to try.

I understand that these schools are not going to get biglaw, but....

how possible is it to work up from smaller to midsized law firms to larger ones or even in-house council for business. I hope to do Soft IP.

Thank you
Last edited by shay2171 on Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BigZuck
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Re: Employment Opportunities for T2 and Small firm to Large Firm

Postby BigZuck » Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:38 pm

Check out http://www.lawschooltransparency.com for employment info

I think you should narrow your geographic focus, can't think of a person who would have the requisite ties to attend all of those schools.

If you get a job at a small firm, it'll be next to impossible to get a job at a big firm down the line.

T1 and T2 are meaningless distinctions. Law schools place regionally, by and large, and an arbitrary ranking system doesn't really impact employment, which is what you need to focus on (along with cost)

If you want to work at a big firm or in house counsel then you need to go to a top school. These schools are fine for small firm/local government type work (well, some of them at least-American is one of the very worst law schools in the country)

shay2171
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Re: Employment Opportunities for T2 and Small firm to Large Firm

Postby shay2171 » Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:52 pm

Thank you, I'll take them off the list.

Also I have been looking at LST. It has made me think that the US news Rankings, though a good starting point, are not indicative of job opportunities.

There is no way I will get into a T14. I would retake the LSAT again but I turn 28 in the fall. I feel like time is slipping and I want to get on in life, but I am not unopposed to transfers...(not going to law school thinking that, I want to be happy to practice where I do go the first time)

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Rigo
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Re: Employment Opportunities for T2 and Small firm to Large Firm

Postby Rigo » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:22 am

Since you have modest non-biglaw goals, you should go to a school for free or close to it in the region you want to work (preferably one where you also have ties).
Debt minimization is imperative. None of these schools are worth paying a whole lot for, especially since you don't expect a high salary on the back end.
If you don't get a full ride, you should definitely retake the LSAT in June or October and sit out next cycle. I understand you feel the need to move on with your life but a higher LSAT score could potentially save you a year or two of full salary when you get a much larger scholarship.

Like Zuck said, American is absolute gutter trash so don't go there under any circumstances.
Don't be suckered into splurging for Fordham or GW either.

shay2171
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Re: Employment Opportunities for T2 and Small firm to Large Firm

Postby shay2171 » Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:57 am

I'm not sure my options, are they 1) to take the LSAT and Re-apply after withdrawing, or 2) do I defer at the schools I like then retake?

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Rigo
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Re: Employment Opportunities for T2 and Small firm to Large Firm

Postby Rigo » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:03 pm

shay2171 wrote:I'm not sure my options, are they 1) to take the LSAT and Re-apply after withdrawing, or 2) do I defer at the schools I like then retake?

You should politely decline their offer and withdraw your app if you decide at the end of the cycle it's too expensive to attend this fall and you want better outcomes next cycle. Make sure you do not sign a binding deferral (even if it's your #1 school) because then you'll be stuck at that school and won't be able to apply to other schools or have leverage for scholarship negotiation.

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Ron Don Volante
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Re: Employment Opportunities for T2 and Small firm to Large Firm

Postby Ron Don Volante » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:12 pm

shay2171 wrote:Hi all,

I have a very serious question about employment prospects for a Backend T1 or a solid T2 school? What are the chances of employment in the 45-65,000 range?

particularly: University of Wisconsin, UF, U San Diego, and Marquette. still waiting to hear back from American, George Mason, George Washington, Fordham, Cardozo and some T14's I know will send rejections, but I just had to try.

I understand that these schools are not going to get biglaw, but....

how possible is it to work up from smaller to midsized law firms to larger ones or even in-house council for business. I hope to do Soft IP.

Thank you

how did you pick these schools? You don't decide on law school by throwing darts at a map.

Most of these schools are not going to make sense for you, but under no circumstances should you go to Marquette or American.

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JohannDeMann
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Re: Employment Opportunities for T2 and Small firm to Large Firm

Postby JohannDeMann » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:14 pm

Dirigo wrote:Since you have modest non-biglaw goals, you should go to a school for free or close to it in the region you want to work (preferably one where you also have ties).
Debt minimization is imperative. None of these schools are worth paying a whole lot for, especially since you don't expect a high salary on the back end.
If you don't get a full ride, you should definitely retake the LSAT in June or October and sit out next cycle. I understand you feel the need to move on with your life but a higher LSAT score could potentially save you a year or two of full salary when you get a much larger scholarship.

Like Zuck said, American is absolute gutter trash so don't go there under any circumstances.
Don't be suckered into splurging for Fordham or GW either.


Paye and pslf exists for people that don't want to biglaw. This boards refusal to consider reality is astounding.

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JohannDeMann
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Re: Employment Opportunities for T2 and Small firm to Large Firm

Postby JohannDeMann » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:20 pm

45k out of Wisconsin is very doable. What salary are you making now op?

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Ron Don Volante
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Re: Employment Opportunities for T2 and Small firm to Large Firm

Postby Ron Don Volante » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:23 pm

JohannDeMann wrote:45k out of Wisconsin is very doable. What salary are you making now op?

This guy is pretty likely not from Wisconsin/the Midwest. Unless he's certain he wants to stay in the immediate area post-grad, this is not good advice. And while I expect UW's employment stats to improve a good deal over the next few years (as they basically are cutting their class size in half), the LST numbers are pretty terrible right now.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Employment Opportunities for T2 and Small firm to Large Firm

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:31 pm

JohannDeMann wrote:45k out of Wisconsin is very doable. What salary are you making now op?

He wants to do Soft IP though. Assuming he doesn't get it (and odds are good he won't), he'll likely still be able to make 45k doing something, but why go to law school? Making 45-65k three years from now isn't hard for anyone with a college degree.

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Rigo
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Re: Employment Opportunities for T2 and Small firm to Large Firm

Postby Rigo » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:36 pm

JohannDeMann wrote:Paye and pslf exists for people that don't want to biglaw. This boards refusal to consider reality is astounding.

Sorry if TLS isn't rolling over backwards to recommend programs that are currently plagued with uncertainty and may very well not remain in their current form.

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JohannDeMann
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Re: Employment Opportunities for T2 and Small firm to Large Firm

Postby JohannDeMann » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:40 pm

fair point. but plenty of people looking at T2s actually dont have employment options. are you in undergrad OP? what's your major? any chance at getting a decent job.

shay2171
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Re: Employment Opportunities for T2 and Small firm to Large Firm

Postby shay2171 » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:44 pm

I am choosing Wisconsin because of family and I love it there, Florida because through my parents In-state tuition, and the others because I knew that those regionals were'nt known for IP.

But to be honest I am seriously considering not going to Law School unless its free. I dont think that I'll be going for the right reasons. I thought a JD would get me in the door for the industries I love, but I have a feeling that what I want is "the unicorn" jobs.

Made to many mistakes in my undergrad, I may go back to school for a computer science instead. Law doesnt seem like its going to give me what I want.

shay2171
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Re: Employment Opportunities for T2 and Small firm to Large Firm

Postby shay2171 » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:45 pm

no real career options right now. I am starting to become a parasite and I cant stand it.

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rondemarino
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Re: Employment Opportunities for T2 and Small firm to Large Firm

Postby rondemarino » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:47 pm

shay2171 wrote:I am choosing Wisconsin because of family and I love it there, Florida because through my parents In-state tuition, and the others because I knew that those regionals were'nt known for IP.

But to be honest I am seriously considering not going to Law School unless its free. I dont think that I'll be going for the right reasons. I thought a JD would get me in the door for the industries I love, but I have a feeling that what I want is "the unicorn" jobs.

Made to many mistakes in my undergrad, I may go back to school for a computer science instead. Law doesnt seem like its going to give me what I want.


I <3 OP. Too many people only reach this realization after going into $150k worth of debt.

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fats provolone
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Re: Employment Opportunities for T2 and Small firm to Large Firm

Postby fats provolone » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:47 pm

shay2171 wrote:Made to many mistakes in my undergrad, I may go back to school for a computer science instead. Law doesnt seem like its going to give me what I want.

if you're realizing this already you're smarter than most

shit happens, you're young, you'll figure it out

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Ron Don Volante
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Re: Employment Opportunities for T2 and Small firm to Large Firm

Postby Ron Don Volante » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:53 pm

Good luck OP. Madison has a relatively booming tech sector; gun for that instead.

shay2171
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Re: Employment Opportunities for T2 and Small firm to Large Firm

Postby shay2171 » Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:05 pm

Thank you. I still havent heard back from my UG alma mater. I dont want to go there, but I will if its free. Then I can at least have something to fall back on. Anyway thanks for the advice. There are way too many horror stories out there, and like a smoking commercial don't want to become a statistic, or was that drunk driving. whatever.

shay2171
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Re: Employment Opportunities for T2 and Small firm to Large Firm

Postby shay2171 » Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:32 pm

maybe I should just go back for my masters in History and teach

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baal hadad
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Re: Employment Opportunities for T2 and Small firm to Large Firm

Postby baal hadad » Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:34 pm

Working your way up from a small firm to biglaw probably isn't gonna happen

The work small firms do usually isn't like the work people do in biglaw in any way

shay2171
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Re: Employment Opportunities for T2 and Small firm to Large Firm

Postby shay2171 » Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:31 pm

What about working for the state, or federal gov? what kind of debt relief is there?

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baal hadad
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Re: Employment Opportunities for T2 and Small firm to Large Firm

Postby baal hadad » Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:38 pm

PSLF

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prezidentv8
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Re: Employment Opportunities for T2 and Small firm to Large Firm

Postby prezidentv8 » Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:38 pm

OP is like, astonishingly reasonable. Bravo good sir.

shay2171
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Re: Employment Opportunities for T2 and Small firm to Large Firm

Postby shay2171 » Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:45 pm

Really just trying not to screw myself more than I already have.




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