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Re: Scholarship

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:10 pm
by Ron Don Volante
please present these published numbers

Re: Scholarship

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:22 pm
by mike0331
http://www.northeastern.edu/law/pdfs/ca ... s-2013.pdf 100/218 in full time long term bar passage required positions for NEU class of 2013

https://www.suffolk.edu/documents/Law%2 ... y_2013.pdf 177/479 in the same for Suffolk's class of 2013.

So that put's the percentages at roughly 46% and 37% respectively. Not great, especially for Suffolk, but its not as bleak as is often suggested, especially if the person in question is paying little to nothing for the education.

Compare these numbers to BC, BU, and HLS 64%, 67%, and 90% respectively for other local schools, that I would imagine most, even on TLS, would consider good or excellent.

Mike

Re: Scholarship

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:27 pm
by Rigo
It wouldn't be appropriate to encourage people to bet their future on a coin-flip and those odds are even worse than a coin flip. You're only strengthening the point of those whom you're arguing with. Stop digging your hole deeper.

Rigo

Re: Scholarship

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:29 pm
by Rigo
Also, just because a job requires bar passage doesn't mean it's a good job. This OP is unique in that she has modest goals, but most posters on these forums are unrealistic and in need of a reality check. Sorry if reality isn't all unicorns and rainbows.

Rigo

Re: Scholarship

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:30 pm
by TheSpanishMain
You think that it being more likely that you don't get a legal job at all isn't "bleak"? You have a pretty high tolerance for risk. Keep in mind, too, that's ANY legal job. Not just good ones.

Re: Scholarship

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:33 pm
by hoos89
BC/BU are the type of schools that I think most would say "only go with a significant scholarship and if you want to practice in Boston." Also 64 and 67% are not marginally better than 46 and 37%. Plus, the quality of the jobs actually received at BU/BC is significantly better on average.

I can't believe you're actually on here defending employment sub 50% employment stats. "Only a slight majority of their students failed to get jobs as lawyers" is not a point in favor of Northeastern.

Also, just because you get a full ride to a school doesn't make it "free". There's still opportunity costs of wasting 3 years of your life on something that will be a black mark on your resume for the rest of your life.

Hoos

Re: Scholarship

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:33 pm
by mike0331
It's not a coin flip, because that's not how employment decisions are arrived at. Furthermore these numbers were for best case scenario JD required full time work. There are multiple contributing factors that influence employ-ability from networking, to academic ability, and even attractiveness... the list goes on. So it's wise for one to assess their own situation and make a decision from there.

ETA: I wasn't saying BU/BC were not significantly better, at least I'd hope not since I'll likely end up at one or the other. Just put the numbers there for comparative purposes. Also, not free, though if it costs you nothing and you are going part-time (not sure if that's an intention of the OP) it is less costly than spending 65K/Year for 3 years at suffolk.

Mike

Re: Scholarship

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:35 pm
by Rigo
mike0331 wrote:It's not a coin flip, because that's not how employment decisions are arrived at. Furthermore these numbers were for best case scenario JD required full time work. There are multiple contributing factors that influence employ-ability from networking, to academic ability, and even attractiveness... the list goes on. So it's wise for one to asses their own situation and make a decision from there.

Mike

Huh? Dude, don't be dumb.

Re: Scholarship

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:36 pm
by hoos89
Not all full time legal work is "best case". It's not all the same. Getting some job at a shitfirm making $40k with no benefits or advancement opportunities (which is probably a significant chunk of the Suffolk/Northeastern employment) is not "best case".


Hoos

Re: Scholarship

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:43 pm
by mike0331
I just have a hard time seeing the "no don't do it under any circumstance" when the people I know who've done it, are batting 1000... but I also know them to be intelligent, well spoken, hard workers.

Mike

Re: Scholarship

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:46 pm
by hoos89
Nice use of anecdotal evidence. Just because TWO people did alright coming out of Suffolk doesn't make it a good idea to go.

Hoos

Re: Scholarship

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:51 pm
by fats provolone
look you either get hired or you don't. if you get hired, you have a 100% chance. if you don't, you have a 0% chance. there is no 50% chance of employment.

Re: Scholarship

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:03 pm
by chuckbass
mike0331 wrote:I just have a hard time seeing the "no don't do it under any circumstance" when the people I know who've done it, are batting 1000... but I also know them to be intelligent, well spoken, hard workers.

Mike

So the people that don't get jobs aren't intelligent, well-spoken, hard workers?

Re: Scholarship

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:09 pm
by Clemenceau
If were resorting to anecdotes, my cousin went bc/bu and is currently slaving away in "shitlaw" 6 days a week. (S)he makes it abundantly clear that (s)he hates it.

His/her spouse went to suffolk/NE, worked as a lawyer for a few years, and has now left the profession entirely.

Both of these individuals were part of the lucky x% of their classes to graduate with JD required jobs. Ask em how lucky they feel.

God I love anecdotes.

Clem

Re: Scholarship

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:27 pm
by mike0331
scottidsntknow wrote:
mike0331 wrote:I just have a hard time seeing the "no don't do it under any circumstance" when the people I know who've done it, are batting 1000... but I also know them to be intelligent, well spoken, hard workers.

Mike

So the people that don't get jobs aren't intelligent, well-spoken, hard workers?


According to at least one of my friends who's there now... no not all people at suffolk are that bright (shocking I know).

This clearly hasn't been going anywhere for a while.

Mike

Re: Scholarship

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:29 pm
by hoos89
It's funny how people who do well seem to succeed through their own talent/networking skillz/intelligence/hard work, and they will often tell you that those who didn't do well just weren't as smart/hard working/charismatic/whatever as they are.

Ever heard of cognitive dissonance, bro?

Mike

Re: Scholarship

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:34 pm
by mike0331
I get that, and it does come in to play... but everyone is not created equal/does not try equally hard for various reasons. I doubt luck is the driving force behind job placement. Sure it happens, but life is not a coin toss, or at least that is not the impression I have been left with.

Mike

Re: Scholarship

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:35 pm
by Ron Don Volante
mike0331 wrote:http://www.northeastern.edu/law/pdfs/careers/statistics-2013.pdf 100/218 in full time long term bar passage required positions for NEU class of 2013

https://www.suffolk.edu/documents/Law%2 ... y_2013.pdf 177/479 in the same for Suffolk's class of 2013.

So that put's the percentages at roughly 46% and 37% respectively. Not great, especially for Suffolk, but its not as bleak as is often suggested, especially if the person in question is paying little to nothing for the education.

Compare these numbers to BC, BU, and HLS 64%, 67%, and 90% respectively for other local schools, that I would imagine most, even on TLS, would consider good or excellent.

Mike

you understand this is the same data I was referring to, right?

Ron Don

Re: Scholarship

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:51 pm
by pancakes3
hoos89 wrote:It's funny how people who do well seem to succeed through their own talent/networking skillz/intelligence/hard work, and they will often tell you that those who didn't do well just weren't as smart/hard working/charismatic/whatever as they are.

Ever heard of cognitive dissonance, bro?



mike0331 wrote:I get that, and it does come in to play... but everyone is not created equal/does not try equally hard for various reasons. I doubt luck is the driving force behind job placement. Sure it happens, but life is not a coin toss, or at least that is not the impression I have been left with.


The problem is that EVERYONE who applies to law school thinks that they're talented, hard working, smart, articulate, etc. It's not a coin flip in the exact sense. However, it IS a coinflip in the sense that until you enroll, attend, and fail, you don't know if you're employable or not.

Maybe a Showcase Showdown is a better analogy? 2(or 3 depending on the school) doors. Behind 1 of the doors you get paid 60-90k a year. Behind the other (two) door(s) you...

with scholarship: lose 3 years of your life, 3 years of living expenses, and you're at square one, and practicably unemployable.
without scholarship: see above, and you owe $200,000 of nondischargeable debt.

Re: Scholarship

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:59 pm
by BigZuck
Mike- strawmanning and Horatio Algering is NAGL bro

Zuck

Re: Scholarship

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:01 pm
by BigZuck
I don't remember what this thread is. Does the OP have a kid?

If so, don't do it OP

Eta: Zuck

Re: Scholarship

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:06 pm
by Ron Don Volante
BigZuck wrote:I don't remember what this thread is. Does the OP have a kid?

If so, don't do it OP

Eta: Zuck

Yes. OP is a single mother.

-ron don

Re: Scholarship

Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:39 am
by prelawTN
Under no circumstances should anyone attend a law school where the median LSAT is a 161 and year half the graduating class isn't getting a job afterwards. Especially given your job prospects are all in Boston most likely with low pay and high af COL. You wanna go to an awful law school? Go to one of the "good" ones. Memphis for instance puts 65% of its grads in legal employment and you'll probably get in-state tuition ($18000/yr) if you just get a TN driver's license. COL is ridiculously lower than Boston & employment data is better (despite lower LSAT's medians - therefore dumber kids are facing better propects at Memphia). I'd never try to hard sell someone on the 143rd ranked law school in the country but if the alternative is Northeastern....

Re: Scholarship

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:38 pm
by pancakes3