U of San Diego w/ nearly full tuition scholarship Forum
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U of San Diego w/ nearly full tuition scholarship
I want some opinions. I was offered 43k/year from USD and I could live at home with my parents for free during my three years of law school. I have personal savings and my family is willing to continue to help me out with smaller school related expenses like books. However, I have been accepted to several other higher ranked schools. I am from SoCal and would love to move back home eventually, but I can't decide if going to a T2 school is worth the risk. Yes, it would be essentially at no cost. But job prospects out of USD are pretty damn bad outside of San Diego. I am still waiting for a scholarship offer from my "top choice" school in the midwest and I would be over-the-moon excited to go to this other school, but the offer from USD feels hard to pass up. Would it be dumb to walk away from "free" law school in order to take on some debt (definitely not sticker, btw) at a better school with hopes of being able to relocate back to SD later? I should note that I got into USC (still waiting on scholly info) and applied to UCLA but haven't heard back yet.
- TheSpanishMain
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Re: U of San Diego w/ nearly full tuition scholarship
If you want to practice in San Diego, I don't know what advantages going to your first choice school in the Midwest gives you, unless it's NU or Chicago.
What kind of job are you hoping to get? If you want a small firm or local government in San Diego, I don't think USD for free is an awful choice. If that's not you, though, run.
What are your numbers?
What kind of job are you hoping to get? If you want a small firm or local government in San Diego, I don't think USD for free is an awful choice. If that's not you, though, run.
What are your numbers?
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Re: U of San Diego w/ nearly full tuition scholarship
I am almost certain that I do not want to work in government, and while I would not be unhappy working for a smaller firm, I am hoping for a larger firm. My biggest concern is that USD is a very limiting choice.
- Ron Don Volante
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Re: U of San Diego w/ nearly full tuition scholarship
If you want to work at a big firm in SoCal, and this school is on your radar, the answer is probably going to be "retake," because you're going to need to go to at least UCLA or USC on a good scholarship. If you're fine working in a small firm or in some non-prefsitigious capacity in the greater San Diego area, USD for free sounds fine to me.
Going to this Midwestern school though, if it's not NU or UC, is not a good idea considering your goals.
Going to this Midwestern school though, if it's not NU or UC, is not a good idea considering your goals.
- TheSpanishMain
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Re: U of San Diego w/ nearly full tuition scholarship
Well, less than 10% of USD grads end up in large firms. So yes, it would be very limiting, and you would be very unlikely to reach your goals.kbuckley177 wrote:I am almost certain that I do not want to work in government, and while I would not be unhappy working for a smaller firm, I am hoping for a larger firm. My biggest concern is that USD is a very limiting choice.
I'm guessing an LSAT retake is your best bet.
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- chuckbass
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Re: U of San Diego w/ nearly full tuition scholarship
Robert Kardashian went there and went on to do great things
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Re: U of San Diego w/ nearly full tuition scholarship
I'm fully prepared to sit out this year and retake in June if I don't get an offer worth taking this cycle. I think I just needed to be reassured that USD isn't a good option just because it's at no cost.
- Ron Don Volante
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Re: U of San Diego w/ nearly full tuition scholarship
please tell us your stats and give us more background. It's tough to give really particular advice beyond what we have already said.
In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:
-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT
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Re: U of San Diego w/ nearly full tuition scholarship
I would think long and hard before turning down a completely free JD. What do you see yourself accomplishing in a big firm that you wouldn't get out of a small firm/government/DA job?
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Re: U of San Diego w/ nearly full tuition scholarship
I will be financing tuition with loans. My parents are willing to cover my living expenses. I have only taken the LSAT once, I got a 166. 3.8 GPA from a B1G school. I would love to end up back in San Diego eventually, but its not a must. I went to undergrad in the Midwest and actually really like it here. Ideally, I want to end up working for a larger firm. I've been accepted at BC, ND, WUSTL, Ohio State, USC, and USD.
- TheSpanishMain
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Re: U of San Diego w/ nearly full tuition scholarship
Definitely retake. You should be deciding between UCLA for free and T14 at a hefty discount. USD shouldn't be on your radar.
- ReasonableNprudent
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Re: U of San Diego w/ nearly full tuition scholarship
I don't think USD for free is bad at all. I'm guessing your "top choice in the midwest" is either Minnesota or Notre Dame. I'd imagine the networking you could do while in law school in SD would yield greater returns than going to a T1 but not T14 school. Think alumni, externships/internships, volunteer work, joining bar associations, etc. I understand that doing these things is what gets students jobs after graduation. It's a lot easier to do those things in the market you want to work.
Yes, if you want big law it is better to go to USC or UCLA (statistically speaking). I'm not sure if it is much easier to plan on being top 35% or so at USC than it is to be top 5-10% at USD. Though, I'm also not sure that the 35% out of USC/UCLA that gets big law is the top 35% of the class; the relationship might not be static.
In the end, USC or UCLA at a low cost/no cost is better than USD at low or no cost. Both are probably better than a midwest school, if you want to practice in So Cal.
(As far as Robert Kardashian goes, I understand he made his money in business and not law. Of course, if a school pumps out enough grads there are bound to be some Kardashians. He is really irrelevant to your situation.)
Yes, if you want big law it is better to go to USC or UCLA (statistically speaking). I'm not sure if it is much easier to plan on being top 35% or so at USC than it is to be top 5-10% at USD. Though, I'm also not sure that the 35% out of USC/UCLA that gets big law is the top 35% of the class; the relationship might not be static.
In the end, USC or UCLA at a low cost/no cost is better than USD at low or no cost. Both are probably better than a midwest school, if you want to practice in So Cal.
(As far as Robert Kardashian goes, I understand he made his money in business and not law. Of course, if a school pumps out enough grads there are bound to be some Kardashians. He is really irrelevant to your situation.)
- Tiago Splitter
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Re: U of San Diego w/ nearly full tuition scholarship
I had good grades at Columbia and couldn't get a large firm job in San Diego despite having grown up there. It's really tough. If you can get USC down to 10k or so tuition per year that makes a lot more sense as it will give you a real chance at jobs throughout the state. Barring that you really need to retake for a couple more points to get a big scholarship at a place like Northwestern or Michigan.
USD is pretty much hopeless. I know of people comfortably inside the top 10% who struck out at OCI. I was going to go there with my 166 before I decided to retake and I'm certainly glad I stayed away.
USD is pretty much hopeless. I know of people comfortably inside the top 10% who struck out at OCI. I was going to go there with my 166 before I decided to retake and I'm certainly glad I stayed away.
Last edited by Tiago Splitter on Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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- TheSpanishMain
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Re: U of San Diego w/ nearly full tuition scholarship
....He was joking.ReasonableNprudent wrote:
(As far as Robert Kardashian goes, I understand he made his money in business and not law. Of course, if a school pumps out enough grads there are bound to be some Kardashians. He is really irrelevant to your situation.)
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Re: U of San Diego w/ nearly full tuition scholarship
I needed someone to tell me this. lol. Thank you!TheSpanishMain wrote:Definitely retake. You should be deciding between UCLA for free and T14 at a hefty discount. USD shouldn't be on your radar.
- Ron Don Volante
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Re: U of San Diego w/ nearly full tuition scholarship
In that case you really should be retaking. Two more points and you've basically got a full ride at USC. Don't settle.
Midwest is v underrated by most, yes, but most of the legal markets are quite small, saturated, and insular. Going T14 or to UCLA/USC, especially with your preferred line of employment, is pretty crucial here. Get that thing to like a 170 and it's smooth sailing.
Midwest is v underrated by most, yes, but most of the legal markets are quite small, saturated, and insular. Going T14 or to UCLA/USC, especially with your preferred line of employment, is pretty crucial here. Get that thing to like a 170 and it's smooth sailing.
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Re: U of San Diego w/ nearly full tuition scholarship
166/3.8 are T14 stats, you should retake and re-apply early next cycle. USD is a decent school but somebody with your numbers should not be considering it.
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- chuckbass
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Re: U of San Diego w/ nearly full tuition scholarship
Even better response than I could have hoped forTheSpanishMain wrote:....He was joking.ReasonableNprudent wrote:
(As far as Robert Kardashian goes, I understand he made his money in business and not law. Of course, if a school pumps out enough grads there are bound to be some Kardashians. He is really irrelevant to your situation.)
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Re: U of San Diego w/ nearly full tuition scholarship
San Diego native here, so I can see why you want to practice there. USD is a fine choice if you have modest goals in San Diego County. However, "a large firm" isn't a modest goal.
Your stats are too good for USD so you should aim higher if you really wouldn't be fine with the median outcomes. See what USC offers you or retake and shoot for USC and UCLA (hell, even Berekley or Stanford is possible).
Also, a big portion of the biglaw jobs in San Diego is patent stuff (iirc) so that's pretty limiting if you're not STEM and patent bar eligible.
Overall a very tough market.
Your stats are too good for USD so you should aim higher if you really wouldn't be fine with the median outcomes. See what USC offers you or retake and shoot for USC and UCLA (hell, even Berekley or Stanford is possible).
Also, a big portion of the biglaw jobs in San Diego is patent stuff (iirc) so that's pretty limiting if you're not STEM and patent bar eligible.
Overall a very tough market.
- Tiago Splitter
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Re: U of San Diego w/ nearly full tuition scholarship
It's still very early in the cycle. Hopefully OP applied to some T-14's for scholarship leverage, but even without negotiation something like 135k at USC is very reasonable.Moneytrees wrote:166/3.8 are T14 stats, you should retake and re-apply early next cycle. USD is a decent school but somebody with your numbers should not be considering it.
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Re: U of San Diego w/ nearly full tuition scholarship
Is 135k for USC really reasonable? How much (or little?) should I be willing to pay for USC or UCLA?Tiago Splitter wrote:It's still very early in the cycle. Hopefully OP applied to some T-14's for scholarship leverage, but even without negotiation something like 135k at USC is very reasonable.Moneytrees wrote:166/3.8 are T14 stats, you should retake and re-apply early next cycle. USD is a decent school but somebody with your numbers should not be considering it.
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- Tiago Splitter
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Re: U of San Diego w/ nearly full tuition scholarship
I wouldn't pay more than about 10k per year. You're at or above both medians so you should come pretty close to a full ride. Ideally you'll get into a T-14 or two, UCLA, and get full rides at lower ranked schools, all of which you can use to negotiate up USC (and UCLA). Don't make the first move, but after you get your aid offer negotiate multiple times if necessary. Sort through some of the profiles on the page below to get a sense of what kind of money you can expect to receive.kbuckley177 wrote:Is 135k for USC really reasonable? How much (or little?) should I be willing to pay for USC or UCLA?Tiago Splitter wrote:It's still very early in the cycle. Hopefully OP applied to some T-14's for scholarship leverage, but even without negotiation something like 135k at USC is very reasonable.Moneytrees wrote:166/3.8 are T14 stats, you should retake and re-apply early next cycle. USD is a decent school but somebody with your numbers should not be considering it.
http://usc.lawschoolnumbers.com/applica ... cholarship
The number of applicants continues to rapidly decline, so the schools have very little leverage here. Drive a hard bargain.
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Re: U of San Diego w/ nearly full tuition scholarship
According to USC's ABA 509 report, the 75% award amount is only 25k. That isn't even close a full rideTiago Splitter wrote:I wouldn't pay more than about 10k per year. You're at or above both medians so you should come pretty close to a full ride. Ideally you'll get into a T-14 or two, UCLA, and get full rides at lower ranked schools, all of which you can use to negotiate up USC (and UCLA). Don't make the first move, but after you get your aid offer negotiate multiple times if necessary. Sort through some of the profiles on the page below to get a sense of what kind of money you can expect to receive.kbuckley177 wrote:Is 135k for USC really reasonable? How much (or little?) should I be willing to pay for USC or UCLA?Tiago Splitter wrote:It's still very early in the cycle. Hopefully OP applied to some T-14's for scholarship leverage, but even without negotiation something like 135k at USC is very reasonable.Moneytrees wrote:166/3.8 are T14 stats, you should retake and re-apply early next cycle. USD is a decent school but somebody with your numbers should not be considering it.
http://usc.lawschoolnumbers.com/applica ... cholarship
The number of applicants continues to rapidly decline, so the schools have very little leverage here. Drive a hard bargain.
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Re: U of San Diego w/ nearly full tuition scholarship
That's weighed down by people with worse numbers who only get nominal scholarships. It's not really a good reference point.kbuckley177 wrote: According to USC's ABA 509 report, the 75% award amount is only 25k. That isn't even close a full ride
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Re: U of San Diego w/ nearly full tuition scholarship
I figured it had to be skewed in some way or another based off of the offers I have received from other schools.Dirigo wrote:That's weighed down by people with worse numbers who only get nominal scholarships. It's not really a good reference point.kbuckley177 wrote: According to USC's ABA 509 report, the 75% award amount is only 25k. That isn't even close a full ride
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