"Don't go to law school"

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gatesome
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"Don't go to law school"

Postby gatesome » Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:43 pm

why does nearly every lawyer I meet tell me to not go to law school?

is it some sort of hazing?

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utahraptor
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Re: "Don't go to law school"

Postby utahraptor » Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:46 pm

They're trying to save the past versions of themselves.

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hairbear7
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Re: "Don't go to law school"

Postby hairbear7 » Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:48 pm

Because law school is super expensive and it's difficult to acquire employment after graduating that can either 1) service your debt load or 2) make the 3 years of education worth it.

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fats provolone
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Re: "Don't go to law school"

Postby fats provolone » Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:36 pm

gatesome wrote:why does nearly every lawyer I meet tell me to not go to law school?

is it some sort of hazing?

what would they know

brush the haters off

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SweetTort
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Re: "Don't go to law school"

Postby SweetTort » Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:41 pm

They're trying to keep all the law to themselves.

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Rigo
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Re: "Don't go to law school"

Postby Rigo » Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:44 pm

In before the 0Ls criticize the horrible elitist TLS hivemind.

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fats provolone
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Re: "Don't go to law school"

Postby fats provolone » Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:44 pm

SweetTort wrote:They're trying to keep all the law to themselves.

this is true actually

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Chevron Deference
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Re: "Don't go to law school"

Postby Chevron Deference » Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:49 pm

We live in a society where we no longer need new lawyers.

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rpupkin
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Re: "Don't go to law school"

Postby rpupkin » Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:57 pm

hairbear7 wrote:Because law school is super expensive and it's difficult to acquire employment after graduating that can either 1) service your debt load or 2) make the 3 years of education worth it.

Those are good reasons to not attend law school, but I don't think they're why most lawyers are telling the OP not to go to law school.

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fats provolone
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Re: "Don't go to law school"

Postby fats provolone » Sat Jan 31, 2015 10:04 pm

didn't we just do this thread?

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Rigo
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Re: "Don't go to law school"

Postby Rigo » Sat Jan 31, 2015 10:04 pm

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=242725
Here are some perspectives (great points quoted below). Hopefully you're less of clown than that OP.

The takeaway seems to be that even if you "win" the law school game and achieve what is considered to be prestigious outcome (biglaw), you still lose because your life sucks.

fats provolone wrote:sounds like a retread of "but you're all strivers too!" yeah no shit bro. how do you think i ended up in this mess. I'm not trying to convince people that law deans are bilking them (even though they are). I'm trying to show people that even if they realize all their wildest 0L dreams and achieve objective success their lives will still be empty and worthless. i don't think the "law school is a scam, oh i got fooled and now I've got all this debt so I'm stuck!" shtick resonates with anyone. my hope is that 0Ls will say huh, i wonder why this dude who went to harvard and got a prestigious job and seems like a generally funny and likeable bro mostly just talks about suicide now. I'm sure lots of people in law think about doing something fulfilling with their lives, but I don't think the fact that they've given up on life suggests a lack of courage so much as a depletion of will caused by the job and the debt and the severe personality defects that led us here in the first place.

romothesavior wrote:Fats' point was this: Even if a starry-eyed dreamer of a 0L knocks it out of the park, accumulates preftige, and goes on to some white shoe firm, they very likely will hate that lifestyle. It involves soul crushing hours surrounded by sociopathic partners who treat you like crap. (Not all, but very often.) ...
I won't go so far as to throw the whole profession under the bus like fats. I have a midlaw job I love working with awesome people doing interesting work. (And even this was incredibly lucky. I had to jump ship from my first firm due to a lack of work.) I got lucky and "won" I suppose. I know plenty of people who "lost," and I know plenty of people who "won" even bigger than I did and hate it.

So, as I indicated in my first post ITT, I won't go so far as to say law school is wrong for everyone. But so few 0Ls have any appreciation for (1) the enormous cost, both financially and otherwise, of law school and the practice (2) the difficulty in the job market right now, and (3) what the day in, day out grind of a law firm actually involves.

It's pretty damn obnoxious being to say we don't know anything about this and are just being too "negative" when we'be fucking lived and breathed this shit for years.

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fats provolone
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Re: "Don't go to law school"

Postby fats provolone » Sat Jan 31, 2015 10:05 pm

i billed like 20 hrs that day

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TetrisBlock
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Re: "Don't go to law school"

Postby TetrisBlock » Sat Jan 31, 2015 10:29 pm

Is this a good thread to ask what do people do that are median or below? I can't reasonably expect to be top 10-20% of the class and should plan as though I'll finish median (or below median if at a t14, but I won't do that because it would be sticker for my scores more than likely). If I have $50,000 in savings and tuition is <$20,000 a year at a t30 school and I finished median, what could I try to do? I'd assume there would have to be some options, but this site obviously tends to focus on big law or bust. What are the options for people who ended up median at a t1 with $60k in debt? Is it still a tremendously bad idea?

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utahraptor
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Re: "Don't go to law school"

Postby utahraptor » Sat Jan 31, 2015 10:32 pm

if you have savings like that, I'd wonder if you have a decent job

if you had a decent job, i'd probably tell you that you shouldn't go to law school, especially if you're not going for free

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TetrisBlock
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Re: "Don't go to law school"

Postby TetrisBlock » Sat Jan 31, 2015 10:47 pm

utahraptor wrote:if you have savings like that, I'd wonder if you have a decent job

if you had a decent job, i'd probably tell you that you shouldn't go to law school, especially if you're not going for free


Basically my grandpa died after law school and I saved it in case I needed it for a house (unlikely for 50k) or for education. I've worked some minimum wage jobs and have a poor undergraduate GPA (3.3-4) due to immaturity. I have the work ethic down and my head on straight now so the work won't be a problem, and I scored in the 170s on the LSAT so it looks like it might be an affordable, good second chance for me to enter the middle class. I'm decent at programming and could possibly pursue that path, but I would need to build up project experience which could take a while if I'm working another job at the same time. Reading the thread on lawyers day-to-day experience it sounds like the kind of work that would fit me, but I honestly don't know what happens to people that finish at the middle of their class.

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Emma.
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Re: "Don't go to law school"

Postby Emma. » Sat Jan 31, 2015 10:53 pm

Went to a top school with nearly no debt. Since graduating, I have worked in several of the most desirable legal jobs. Still wouldn't recommend law school to anyone. Even the best outcomes suck.

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forza
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Re: "Don't go to law school"

Postby forza » Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:46 pm

Emma. wrote:Went to a top school with nearly no debt. Since graduating, I have worked in several of the most desirable legal jobs. Still wouldn't recommend law school to anyone. Even the best outcomes suck.

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Dr. Nefario
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Re: "Don't go to law school"

Postby Dr. Nefario » Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:48 pm

Emma. wrote:Went to a top school with nearly no debt. Since graduating, I have worked in several of the most desirable legal jobs. Still wouldn't recommend law school to anyone. Even the best outcomes suck.


The fact that someone can actually say this should make us all run

kaiser
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Re: "Don't go to law school"

Postby kaiser » Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:51 pm

gatesome wrote:why does nearly every lawyer I meet tell me to not go to law school?

is it some sort of hazing?


Its not hazing at all. They are telling you that because a very sizable contingent of lawyers realized too late that they can't stand the job (even those who reach the most desirable outcomes). That isn't to say that no one should go to law school. There are absolutely a narrow subset of people who would truly love it, but WAY too many people think they fall into that subset, whereas they really don't. Add to that the 3 years spent, the hundreds of thousands of dollars spent, etc. and you have a recipe for regret if you realize (as so many do) that its just an objectively wise path for most people.

Again, I don't caution everyone away from law school, but there are only a select few people I know who should be pursuing that route in any capacity.

mike0331
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Re: "Don't go to law school"

Postby mike0331 » Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:00 pm

Seems to be a "your mileage may vary" type of thing. I know plenty of lawyers who greatly enjoy their jobs from compliance work to state work to firm work.

Mike

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ymmv
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Re: "Don't go to law school"

Postby ymmv » Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:01 pm

mike0331 wrote:Seems to be a "your mileage may vary" type of thing. I know plenty of lawyers who greatly enjoy their jobs from compliance work to state work to firm work.

Mike


They probably just hate you and are baiting you into LS.

mike0331
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Re: "Don't go to law school"

Postby mike0331 » Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:09 pm

Quite possibly.

From the sound of it a lot of people want to go to law school so they can get prestige and money. Anyone who places those things towards the top of their motivations in life is bound to be either miserable themselves or miserable to be around. I say good luck to them.

I'd love to be rich and be good at what I do, but not at the expense of my soul.

Mike

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ymmv
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Re: "Don't go to law school"

Postby ymmv » Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:17 pm

mike0331 wrote:Quite possibly.

From the sound of it a lot of people want to go to law school so they can get prestige and money. Anyone who places those things towards the top of their motivations in life is bound to be either miserable themselves or miserable to be around. I say good luck to them.

I'd love to be rich and be good at what I do, but not at the expense of my soul.

Mike


Are you going to practice environmental law? Or is it civil rights lit for you.

mike0331
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Re: "Don't go to law school"

Postby mike0331 » Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:14 pm

Hahah...

I have an interest in IP, patent prosecution, product liability stuff, etc. I also have an interest in criminal defense, especially in the case of constitutional issues. Where it will take me, who knows. I do know that as far as work environment I prefer smaller groups or teams. I have very little interest in the mythical land of "Big Law." It's hard to say what I'll end up falling in to though until I get some experience on the ground.

Mike

Moneytrees
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Re: "Don't go to law school"

Postby Moneytrees » Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:12 pm

I come from a family of lawyers and have never actually gotten the whole "don't go to law school" thing from them. However, most people at my job (I'm a paralegal) have told me that going to law school is a bad idea.

It's not all about employment outcomes, either. There are tons of smart people that "win" the law school game but that just hate being lawyers. But it could also be a rewarding career for some types of people, I think. It really just depends.




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