Lowest Ranked School Worth Considering

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lawjag2015
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Lowest Ranked School Worth Considering

Postby lawjag2015 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:00 pm

Over and over I hear this chat of how all the schools below a certain rank are worthless. I am not saying that I disagree with that assertion. I just want your opinion, setting aside what you have scored or will score in LSAT, what do you think is the lowest US News ranked school worth considering? Please do mention your reasons, if possible.

I think this exercise will be very useful for a lot of people.

071816
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Re: Lowest Ranked School Worth Considering

Postby 071816 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:03 pm

depends

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Mullens
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Re: Lowest Ranked School Worth Considering

Postby Mullens » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:05 pm

The rankings are entirely meaningless after about T14-20. Everything after that is a regional school. Where a person is from, their career goals, and the COA is the only thing that matters at that point.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Lowest Ranked School Worth Considering

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:08 pm

I'm pretty sure this question has been asked here a bunch of times already. But: It's not about rankings, it's about costs and personal goals. If you're from Wisconsin and want to work in a small firm or local government in Madison, U of Wisconsin with a full ride could be a great option for you. It would certainly be a better option than UCLA even though USNWR ranks UCLA higher. If you want to do M&A work at a huge firm in NYC, you probably want to go to the T14, but Cornell at a full ride could arguably be a better choice than Columbia at sticker, even though Columbia is ranked higher.

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ballcaps
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Re: Lowest Ranked School Worth Considering

Postby ballcaps » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:08 pm

Mullens wrote:The rankings are entirely meaningless after about T14-20. Everything after that is a regional school. Where a person is from, their career goals, and the COA is the only thing that matters at that point.

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romothesavior
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Re: Lowest Ranked School Worth Considering

Postby romothesavior » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:09 pm

chimp wrote:depends

Yep. This question is impossible to answer because there are so many factors that enter into the "Is this law school worth it for me?" equation.

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lawjag2015
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Re: Lowest Ranked School Worth Considering

Postby lawjag2015 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:12 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I'm pretty sure this question has been asked here a bunch of times already. But: It's not about rankings, it's about costs and personal goals. If you're from Wisconsin and want to work in a small firm or local government in Madison, U of Wisconsin with a full ride could be a great option for you. It would certainly be a better option than UCLA even though USNWR ranks UCLA higher. If you want to do M&A work at a huge firm in NYC, you probably want to go to the T14, but Cornell at a full ride could arguably be a better choice than Columbia at sticker, even though Columbia is ranked higher.


So you do not think that a good regional can afford someone a chance of doing M&A work in Manhattan.

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Re: Lowest Ranked School Worth Considering

Postby ymmv » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:14 pm

lawjag2015 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:I'm pretty sure this question has been asked here a bunch of times already. But: It's not about rankings, it's about costs and personal goals. If you're from Wisconsin and want to work in a small firm or local government in Madison, U of Wisconsin with a full ride could be a great option for you. It would certainly be a better option than UCLA even though USNWR ranks UCLA higher. If you want to do M&A work at a huge firm in NYC, you probably want to go to the T14, but Cornell at a full ride could arguably be a better choice than Columbia at sticker, even though Columbia is ranked higher.


So you do not think that a good regional can afford someone a chance of doing M&A work in Manhattan.


Sure, if they're first in their class or close to it. But betting on these odds is DAF. Just retake if you're really set on biglaw for whatever reason.

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romothesavior
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Re: Lowest Ranked School Worth Considering

Postby romothesavior » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:15 pm

lawjag2015 wrote:So you do not think that a good regional can afford someone a chance of doing M&A work in Manhattan.

What's a "good regional?"

A chance? Sure. But the odds are so low they aren't worth paying for.

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sublime
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Re: Lowest Ranked School Worth Considering

Postby sublime » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:18 pm

..

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Lowest Ranked School Worth Considering

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:18 pm

I'm sure there are people who do get jobs from a good regional doing M&A at a big firm in NYC, but if that's what you know you want to do, no, I wouldn't go to a regional school. But like everyone says, it depends. How do you define good regional?

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lawjag2015
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Re: Lowest Ranked School Worth Considering

Postby lawjag2015 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:20 pm

ymmv wrote:
lawjag2015 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:I'm pretty sure this question has been asked here a bunch of times already. But: It's not about rankings, it's about costs and personal goals. If you're from Wisconsin and want to work in a small firm or local government in Madison, U of Wisconsin with a full ride could be a great option for you. It would certainly be a better option than UCLA even though USNWR ranks UCLA higher. If you want to do M&A work at a huge firm in NYC, you probably want to go to the T14, but Cornell at a full ride could arguably be a better choice than Columbia at sticker, even though Columbia is ranked higher.


So you do not think that a good regional can afford someone a chance of doing M&A work in Manhattan.


Sure, if they're first in their class or close to it. But betting on these odds is DAF. Just retake if you're really set on biglaw for whatever reason.


Why is it that in classes selected based on merit, e.g., Harvard class of 2018 should be much "smarter" than UF class of 2018, it should be harder to be in the top 10% at UF than in the top 50% at Harvard, with both possibilities leading to pretty satisfactory career starts?

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lawjag2015
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Re: Lowest Ranked School Worth Considering

Postby lawjag2015 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:22 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I'm sure there are people who do get jobs from a good regional doing M&A at a big firm in NYC, but if that's what you know you want to do, no, I wouldn't go to a regional school. But like everyone says, it depends. How do you define good regional?


A regional school in top 50, perhaps?

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ymmv
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Re: Lowest Ranked School Worth Considering

Postby ymmv » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:23 pm

lawjag2015 wrote:
ymmv wrote:
lawjag2015 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:I'm pretty sure this question has been asked here a bunch of times already. But: It's not about rankings, it's about costs and personal goals. If you're from Wisconsin and want to work in a small firm or local government in Madison, U of Wisconsin with a full ride could be a great option for you. It would certainly be a better option than UCLA even though USNWR ranks UCLA higher. If you want to do M&A work at a huge firm in NYC, you probably want to go to the T14, but Cornell at a full ride could arguably be a better choice than Columbia at sticker, even though Columbia is ranked higher.


So you do not think that a good regional can afford someone a chance of doing M&A work in Manhattan.


Sure, if they're first in their class or close to it. But betting on these odds is DAF. Just retake if you're really set on biglaw for whatever reason.


Why is it that in classes selected based on merit, e.g., Harvard class of 2018 should be much "smarter" than UF class of 2018, it should be harder to be in the top 10% at UF than in the top 50% at Harvard, with both possibilities leading to pretty satisfactory career starts?


No. Being "smart" has only a marginal relationship to law school success, if any. And admissions are predominantly a factor of LSAT score, which is an entirely learnable, gameable exam with close to zero relationship to intelligence.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Lowest Ranked School Worth Considering

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:27 pm

lawjag2015 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:I'm sure there are people who do get jobs from a good regional doing M&A at a big firm in NYC, but if that's what you know you want to do, no, I wouldn't go to a regional school. But like everyone says, it depends. How do you define good regional?


A regional school in top 50, perhaps?

I went to one. No one is doing M&A in NYC. A couple of people are at CA firms, that's as close as it gets.

And as for the top 10%/top 50% - it's harder to be in the top 10% because 90% of the class won't get there, whereas only 50% of the class won't make top 50%. You can't know ahead of time where you're going to land on the curve.

This has all been discussed here a LOT.

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romothesavior
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Re: Lowest Ranked School Worth Considering

Postby romothesavior » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:51 pm

Not only that, but it is far, far, FAR easier to get a better LSAT score than kill it in law school.

If your goal is to do high end M&A, go to an elite school. if that requires a retake, retake. Period.

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Rigo
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Re: Lowest Ranked School Worth Considering

Postby Rigo » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:50 pm

lawjag2015 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:I'm sure there are people who do get jobs from a good regional doing M&A at a big firm in NYC, but if that's what you know you want to do, no, I wouldn't go to a regional school. But like everyone says, it depends. How do you define good regional?

A regional school in top 50, perhaps?

Is this a NYC regional like Fordham or University of Utah?

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lawjag2015
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Re: Lowest Ranked School Worth Considering

Postby lawjag2015 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:56 pm

Dirigo wrote:
lawjag2015 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:I'm sure there are people who do get jobs from a good regional doing M&A at a big firm in NYC, but if that's what you know you want to do, no, I wouldn't go to a regional school. But like everyone says, it depends. How do you define good regional?

A regional school in top 50, perhaps?

Is this a NYC regional like Fordham or University of Utah?


Say, University of Florida, University of Maryland, University of Utah, etc.

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romothesavior
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Re: Lowest Ranked School Worth Considering

Postby romothesavior » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:01 pm

Pick a random V100. Do a search for grads from any of those schools.

Also take a look at Law School Transparencys data for those schools.

I think you'll find an incredibly small number of people from those schools in NYC doing what you wanna do.

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sublime
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Re: Lowest Ranked School Worth Considering

Postby sublime » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:02 pm

..

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Rigo
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Re: Lowest Ranked School Worth Considering

Postby Rigo » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:08 pm

sublime wrote:
lawjag2015 wrote:Say, University of Florida, University of Maryland, University of Utah, etc.

Practically a zero chance of doing NYC M&A and you should proceed as such.

Yeah. I have friends at NYC regionals (think Brooklyn/Cardozo/Rutgers) and even there it's a super slim chance of NYC biglaw (<10%). And those schools would surely have better NYC biglaw placement than the schools you listed, despite the lower rankings.
Please do not take this as an endorsement for Brooklyn/Cardozo/Rutgers though. They're all pretty TTT.

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sublime
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Re: Lowest Ranked School Worth Considering

Postby sublime » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:14 pm

..

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lawjag2015
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Re: Lowest Ranked School Worth Considering

Postby lawjag2015 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:19 pm

How about placement in biglaw in DC?

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Rigo
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Re: Lowest Ranked School Worth Considering

Postby Rigo » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:23 pm

lawjag2015 wrote:How about placement in biglaw in DC?

LJL. That's hard for everyone. Try Yale.

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sublime
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Re: Lowest Ranked School Worth Considering

Postby sublime » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:23 pm

..




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