JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

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smaug
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby smaug » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:06 pm

I would have been crestfallen with your outcome, for what it's worth, Mr. McDuff.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:25 pm

smaug wrote:I would have been crestfallen with your outcome, for what it's worth, Mr. McDuff.


I went to a state school that is harder to get into than the other schools in the area. I work for the government. In a bit I'll go into business for myself. I'm pretty stoked about it.

I'm probably not dumb because I got a 168 on my LSAT. But hey maybe you are smarter than me! Who knows. To me you are Hulk Hogan who posts a bunch of TLS? I'm guessing you value work more than I? But I don't really know you, of course.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:27 pm

smaug wrote:I would have been crestfallen with your outcome, for what it's worth, Mr. McDuff.

There's nothing wrong with his outcome, though.

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smaug
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby smaug » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:28 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
smaug wrote:I would have been crestfallen with your outcome, for what it's worth, Mr. McDuff.


I went to a state school that is harder to get into than the other schools in the area. I work for the government. In a bit I'll go into business for myself. I'm pretty stoked about it.

I'm probably not dumb because I got a 168 on my LSAT. But hey maybe you are smarter than me! Who knows. To me you are Hulk Hogan who posts a bunch of TLS? I'm guessing you value work more than I? But I don't really know you, of course.

Yeah everyone I know who scored a 168 is brilliant, and everyone I know who went to law school ended up OK, except for the losers.

You've won! Congrats!

JCougar, thanks for keeping these threads alive. Apparently they're still needed.

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smaug
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby smaug » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:29 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
smaug wrote:I would have been crestfallen with your outcome, for what it's worth, Mr. McDuff.

There's nothing wrong with his outcome, though.

There's nothing inherently wrong with any outcome other than unemployment, right?

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:31 pm

smaug wrote:
Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
smaug wrote:I would have been crestfallen with your outcome, for what it's worth, Mr. McDuff.


I went to a state school that is harder to get into than the other schools in the area. I work for the government. In a bit I'll go into business for myself. I'm pretty stoked about it.

I'm probably not dumb because I got a 168 on my LSAT. But hey maybe you are smarter than me! Who knows. To me you are Hulk Hogan who posts a bunch of TLS? I'm guessing you value work more than I? But I don't really know you, of course.

Yeah everyone I know who scored a 168 is brilliant, and everyone I know who went to law school ended up OK, except for the losers.

You've won! Congrats!

JCougar, thanks for keeping these threads alive. Apparently they're still needed.


I'd like to get to know you too. Care to tell us a bit about your story?

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smaug
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby smaug » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:35 pm

I went to a better school than you, make more money than you, and am also a profession wrestler.

I'm pretty happy about it.

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asdfdfdfadfas
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby asdfdfdfadfas » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:36 pm

smaug wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
smaug wrote:I would have been crestfallen with your outcome, for what it's worth, Mr. McDuff.

There's nothing wrong with his outcome, though.

There's nothing inherently wrong with any outcome other than unemployment, right?


If the bar, pardon my pun :lol: , is set at employment for coming out of law school, then why doesn't everyone skip that and do another 4 years of high school?

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:36 pm

smaug wrote:I went to a better school than you, make more money than you, and am also a profession wrestler.

I'm pretty happy about it.


Are you sure that this person you are speaking about is not your internet self?

You are in a safe and totally anonymous place right now.

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smaug
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby smaug » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:36 pm

Unfortunately, unlike you, I know many wonderful people who attended a wonderful school and are otherwise well credentialed who have struggled out of law school.

It's a sad thing, and it's a real thing.

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smaug
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby smaug » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:37 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
smaug wrote:I went to a better school than you, make more money than you, and am also a profession wrestler.

I'm pretty happy about it.


Are you sure that this person you are speaking about is not your internet self?

You are in a safe and totally anonymous place right now.


May Nony strike me down if I'm lying about anything except the wrestling.

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smaug
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby smaug » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:40 pm

asdfdfdfadfas wrote:
smaug wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
smaug wrote:I would have been crestfallen with your outcome, for what it's worth, Mr. McDuff.

There's nothing wrong with his outcome, though.

There's nothing inherently wrong with any outcome other than unemployment, right?


If the bar, pardon my pun :lol: , is set at employment for coming out of law school, then why doesn't everyone skip that and do another 4 years of high school?

That's a good question. If the bar is any job that pays 60k and benefits, why not just college?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:42 pm

smaug wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
smaug wrote:I would have been crestfallen with your outcome, for what it's worth, Mr. McDuff.

There's nothing wrong with his outcome, though.

There's nothing inherently wrong with any outcome other than unemployment, right?

Not in a vacuum. It could be a bad outcome for someone paying $250k (or maybe not), and you don't have to want that outcome, but if we're talking about a crisis in legal education/employment I think the issue is people not getting jobs at all/being stuck in doc review/having no possibility of advancement. Not so much having a stable local government job in what sounds like a moderate COL area.

(I'm agreeing with you that the struggle is real and heartbreaking, so I'm not with McDuff on that. I just don't think his outcome is a good example of that.)

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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby JCougar » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:43 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
smaug wrote:I would have been crestfallen with your outcome, for what it's worth, Mr. McDuff.


I went to a state school that is harder to get into than the other schools in the area. I work for the government. In a bit I'll go into business for myself. I'm pretty stoked about it.

I'm probably not dumb because I got a 168 on my LSAT. But hey maybe you are smarter than me! Who knows. To me you are Hulk Hogan who posts a bunch of TLS? I'm guessing you value work more than I? But I don't really know you, of course.


I worked for the government for free for a long time, but it was just my luck that my agency never got enough funding to hire. Before that, I worked for another government that is apparently broke and hasn't hired since.

I apply to dozens of government jobs per month, but can't even get an interview--I've applied to almost 500 jobs total since graduation, and it can't be my personality, because the only thing people know about me is from my resume, which has been done up nicely by a recruiter.

Right now I'm doing temp work for a solo attorney and studying for yet another bar exam. None of my fellow graduates who graduated without a job that I'm still in touch with have found anything decent other than doc review/temp work. I started applying for non law jobs a while ago, but it's really true, a JD makes it nearly impossible to get an interview in an unrelated industry.

After I'm done with this bar exam in a month, I might just start my own firm. Even though I've earned zilch since graduating, I have pretty good experience working on some very big cases. I do great work, and have the knack for this, and do a lot of networking. I get nothing but compliments from my supervisors, but none have been able to pay me. I know enough people now that if I go solo, I'll have a somewhat steady supply of referrals right from the get-go.

I'm pretty optimistic about my future, but these last three years have been hell.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:44 pm

smaug wrote:Unfortunately, unlike you, I know many wonderful people who attended a wonderful school and are otherwise well credentialed who have struggled out of law school.

It's a sad thing, and it's a real thing.


Are you being honest about having a job?

I just ask because I took a peek at your post history. You have over 8000 posts even though you have been a member of this site for less than 1 year. In the first three pages of your post history, I noticed that you had been posting frequently in the following discussion topics:

"RE: Defend weirdest snack you regularly eat"
"Favorite Cereal"
"Favorite Font"
"Calling all Forever Alones"

I couldn't make the last one up if I tried really, really hard.

Anyway, I'm just saying you can talk about this as much or as little of this as you want. I'm just a nice guy who is here to listen.

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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby General_Tso » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:45 pm

At what point do you say "this legal profession ship has sailed, time to reevaluate"?

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smaug
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby smaug » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:46 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
smaug wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
smaug wrote:I would have been crestfallen with your outcome, for what it's worth, Mr. McDuff.

There's nothing wrong with his outcome, though.

There's nothing inherently wrong with any outcome other than unemployment, right?

Not in a vacuum. It could be a bad outcome for someone paying $250k (or maybe not), and you don't have to want that outcome, but if we're talking about a crisis in legal education/employment I think the issue is people not getting jobs at all/being stuck in doc review/having no possibility of advancement. Not so much having a stable local government job in what sounds like a moderate COL area.

(I'm agreeing with you that the struggle is real and heartbreaking, so I'm not with McDuff on that. I just don't think his outcome is a good example of that.)


I wasn't saying it was. There are many "good" outcomes that are subjectively "bad" to people depending on what their hopes are. That might not be reasonable, but it's certainly true.

More depressing is that while there are many adequate outcomes from law school, there are few exemplary ones.

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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:46 pm

JCougar wrote:
Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
smaug wrote:I would have been crestfallen with your outcome, for what it's worth, Mr. McDuff.


I went to a state school that is harder to get into than the other schools in the area. I work for the government. In a bit I'll go into business for myself. I'm pretty stoked about it.

I'm probably not dumb because I got a 168 on my LSAT. But hey maybe you are smarter than me! Who knows. To me you are Hulk Hogan who posts a bunch of TLS? I'm guessing you value work more than I? But I don't really know you, of course.


I worked for the government for free for a long time, but it was just my luck that my agency never got enough funding to hire. Before that, I worked for another government that is apparently broke and hasn't hired since.

I apply to dozens of government jobs per month, but can't even get an interview--I've applied to almost 500 jobs total since graduation, and it can't be my personality, because the only thing people know about me is from my resume, which has been done up nicely by a recruiter.

Right now I'm doing temp work for a solo attorney and studying for yet another bar exam. None of my fellow graduates who graduated without a job that I'm still in touch with have found anything decent other than doc review/temp work. I started applying for non law jobs a while ago, but it's really true, a JD makes it nearly impossible to get an interview in an unrelated industry.

After I'm done with this bar exam in a month, I might just start my own firm. Even though I've earned zilch since graduating, I have pretty good experience working on some very big cases. I do great work, and have the knack for this, and do a lot of networking. I get nothing but compliments from my supervisors, but none have been able to pay me. I know enough people now that if I go solo, I'll have a somewhat steady supply of referrals right from the get-go.

I'm pretty optimistic about my future, but these last three years have been hell.


I hope you kick major ass in your new state. Is it a less competitive market? I pictured you in NY or Chicago before.

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smaug
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby smaug » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:47 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
smaug wrote:Unfortunately, unlike you, I know many wonderful people who attended a wonderful school and are otherwise well credentialed who have struggled out of law school.

It's a sad thing, and it's a real thing.


Are you being honest about having a job?

I just ask because I took a peek at your post history. You have over 8000 posts even though you have been a member of this site for less than 1 year. In the first three pages of your post history, I noticed that you had been posting frequently in the following discussion topics:

"RE: Defend weirdest snack you regularly eat"
"Favorite Cereal"
"Favorite Font"
"Calling all Forever Alones"

I couldn't make the last one up if I tried really, really hard.

Anyway, I'm just saying you can talk about this as much or as little of this as you want. I'm just a nice guy who is here to listen.


I have a job and manage to do the very time consuming task of pausing the clock for such diversions.

Seriously, the mods know and can ban me if I'm lying about that, duder.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:49 pm

smaug wrote:
Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
smaug wrote:Unfortunately, unlike you, I know many wonderful people who attended a wonderful school and are otherwise well credentialed who have struggled out of law school.

It's a sad thing, and it's a real thing.


Are you being honest about having a job?

I just ask because I took a peek at your post history. You have over 8000 posts even though you have been a member of this site for less than 1 year. In the first three pages of your post history, I noticed that you had been posting frequently in the following discussion topics:

"RE: Defend weirdest snack you regularly eat"
"Favorite Cereal"
"Favorite Font"
"Calling all Forever Alones"

I couldn't make the last one up if I tried really, really hard.

Anyway, I'm just saying you can talk about this as much or as little of this as you want. I'm just a nice guy who is here to listen.


I have a job and manage to do the very time consuming task of pausing the clock for such diversions.

Seriously, the mods know and can ban me if I'm lying about that, duder.


How do the moderators know you have a job?

How do we know the moderators have jobs?

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:50 pm

It's an internet forum. I could be a 9 year old girl and you'd never know.

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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:51 pm

@ McDuff - Smaug has a job.

You also seem unfamiliar with the lounge. Calling All Forever Alones is an institution there.

@ smaug - you're right. I just don't think the problem is actually few exemplary/lots of adequate outcomes as much as the objectively bad outcomes no matter what your goals were.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:52 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:@ McDuff - Smaug has a job.

You also seem unfamiliar with the lounge. Calling All Forever Alones is an institution there.

@ smaug - you're right. I just don't think the problem is actually few exemplary/lots of adequate outcomes as much as the objectively bad outcomes no matter what your goals were.


Now I'm just curious. Do you mega-poster types like meet in the real world? Or do you send scanned images of diplomas and pay stubs?

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asdfdfdfadfas
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby asdfdfdfadfas » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:53 pm

General_Tso wrote:At what point do you say "this legal profession ship has sailed, time to reevaluate"?


I am interested to hear what people's response to this is. I think it is a good question.

Jcoug- how old are you, if you don't mind me asking?
Last edited by asdfdfdfadfas on Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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JCougar
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby JCougar » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:53 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:I hope you kick major ass in your new state. Is it a less competitive market? I pictured you in NY or Chicago before.


I've outed myself too much already.

I wouldn't be mad at any of this if it weren't for the debt. If I eventually go solo and succeed, it will basically be because I taught myself how to practice law via free labor on my own, took my own risks, etc. Law school didn't do anything except collect a check and stress me out over nothing. The prospect of paying 15% of my future income for those three worthless years is what's most infuriating.




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