JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby TheSpanishMain » Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:59 pm

JohannDeMann wrote:It's a shitty situation all around, but the people going in lots of debt usually aren't dumb - they usually don't have a better option.


Even if all this is true, there are still usually better options than a TTT law school at sticker. If you need the loans to live, at least take them out for something with better job prospects. Go to nursing/physical therapy school, become a certified electrician, whatever. Better job prospects for much less debt.

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BruceWayne
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby BruceWayne » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:03 pm

Lol with the SaddleUp kind of mindset running rampant amongst law school prospectives it's no wonder that tuition at the top 14 has actually gone UP DURING the recession/crash. Lmao @ "virtually guaranteed" a job at HYSCCNPwhatever the hell random top 14 demarcation this website makes up next. Some things never change.

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Jakobe
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby Jakobe » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:08 pm

Saddle Up wrote:
AreJay711 wrote:
Saddle Up wrote:The fallacy of threads like this is that they encompass the results of all law schools and the legal employment nationwide.

Focusing on the top 20 law schools (using LST data) it seems that unemployment would be in single figures not 15%. Plus, the income from most firm jobs would more than satisfactorily cover tuition debt. Cannot believe that very many students at highly ranked schools are overly concerned today about landing at their feet.


Yeah, most do land on their feet. Some people get fucked though and it's not really clear who they will be before the dust settles, so the concern is there.

True. They will always be some concern and anxiety even if you attend HYSCCNP but the stats for these schools (and those in the top 20) is that unemployment is in the single digits. This is according to LST, using 2013 data. Please note that the legal job market has significantly improved since 2013 and will likely be even better in 2014 and especially in 2015.

I agree with an earlier poster that a few schools use school-funded-jobs to skew their numbers to enhance their USNWR rankings. This is unfortunate but this practice seems limited to only a few schools.


Yeah, maybe it will be better in 2014 and 2015, but that's not the market that current law applicants are applying to. It's nice to think that the economy will just keep getting better and better, but I think that we both know that will not continue to happen. In time, the economy is going to take a dip again and so will the law market.

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JCougar
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby JCougar » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:20 pm

I personally know three people from U Chicago that struck out at OCI and are in situations no better than me. So don't think going to a T14 will make you immune. You are only one bad bidding strategy away from this kind of situation no matter where you go.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby TheSpanishMain » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:23 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:If you're willing to give up on law, join the military and get health benefits/pslf


Seriously, look into it. I wasn't being snarky. You could enlist, go to OCS, and make more money along with the most generous benefits package available. Brand new lieutenants make 55k, more if they're married or live in an expensive area. And they'll see regular, predictable raises. After 5 years, you're making 87k. Plus public service loan forgiveness. If you're so convinced your legal career is dead in the water, why not cut bait?

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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby Moneytrees » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:39 pm

JCougar wrote:I personally know three people from U Chicago that struck out at OCI and are in situations no better than me. So don't think going to a T14 will make you immune. You are only one bad bidding strategy away from this kind of situation no matter where you go.


Come on man, these types of anecdotes are not any better than a TTT student saying that he knows 3 guys that snagged Biglaw jobs and are making it rain out of Chapman or Arizona Summit. The vast majority of Chicago students are doing just fine. Going to an elite job doesn't mean you have a guaranteed 160k job lined up.

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JCougar
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby JCougar » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:10 pm

starry eyed wrote:this kind of rhetoric has the opposite effect of what some of you are going for. at least for me.


Good luck with that...

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JCougar
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby JCougar » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:18 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:If you're willing to give up on law, join the military and get health benefits/pslf


Seriously, look into it. I wasn't being snarky. You could enlist, go to OCS, and make more money along with the most generous benefits package available. Brand new lieutenants make 55k, more if they're married or live in an expensive area. And they'll see regular, predictable raises. After 5 years, you're making 87k. Plus public service loan forgiveness. If you're so convinced your legal career is dead in the water, why not cut bait?


Oh, I've definitely thought about this. More than one person from my class joined the military to get a job. I might follow in their path.

I don't know that I ever said that I think my legal career is dead, though. I still have some decent connections that may pan out yet. But I don't know how much longer I can take this kind of lifestyle while I wait. I never planned on my loan debt spiraling out of control like this, nor did I account for the psychological and physiological drain and strain that comes with it, the disappointment to my family, etc.

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JCougar
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby JCougar » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:20 pm

Moneytrees wrote:Come on man, these types of anecdotes are not any better than a TTT student saying that he knows 3 guys that snagged Biglaw jobs and are making it rain out of Chapman or Arizona Summit. The vast majority of Chicago students are doing just fine. Going to an elite job doesn't mean you have a guaranteed 160k job lined up.


This story is moreso to remind people that there's no silver medal if you strike out at OCI, even from a T6 school. If you miss the OCI boat even from these schools, it's pretty unreasonable to think that you're just going to plop down in some $80K/year midlaw job and live an okay life. You're screwed just like the anchor man at Cooley--unless you can figure out how to make it in some non-law career.

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ReasonableNprudent
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby ReasonableNprudent » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:42 pm

JCougar wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:Come on man, these types of anecdotes are not any better than a TTT student saying that he knows 3 guys that snagged Biglaw jobs and are making it rain out of Chapman or Arizona Summit. The vast majority of Chicago students are doing just fine. Going to an elite job doesn't mean you have a guaranteed 160k job lined up.


This story is moreso to remind people that there's no silver medal if you strike out at OCI, even from a T6 school. If you miss the OCI boat even from these schools, it's pretty unreasonable to think that you're just going to plop down in some $80K/year midlaw job and live an okay life. You're screwed just like the anchor man at Cooley--unless you can figure out how to make it in some non-law career.


So the outcomes from all law schools are Biglaw and broke loser. Got it.

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ReasonableNprudent
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby ReasonableNprudent » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:49 pm

Jcougs. My comment was a little snide. You've mostly been pretty congenial with even temperament. I actually applaud you for keeping an even tone even when people outright ridicule you.

I do think you could benefit from a life-coach of some sort, though. Even a positive mentor would be helpful.

I believe it would be in your best interest to connect with someone positive, that has experienced some success. Then take notes and focus more on the solution than the problem. Grind, hustle, network, whatever. The point is to just sell yourself. Regardless of how hard it is out there I believe you will be unable to gen on a positive trajectory while reinforcing how hopeless it all is in your inner dialogue.

Will yourself to a better spot. Decide to make it happen.

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prezidentv8
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby prezidentv8 » Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:00 pm

not sure if I chimed in with this earlier, but just lol at people who think JC and/or his career path are unusual in any way.

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bpolley0
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby bpolley0 » Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:02 pm

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Last edited by bpolley0 on Sun May 22, 2016 9:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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NoBladesNoBows
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby NoBladesNoBows » Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:08 pm

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Last edited by NoBladesNoBows on Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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JCougar
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby JCougar » Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:17 pm

ReasonableNprudent wrote:Jcougs. My comment was a little snide. You've mostly been pretty congenial with even temperament. I actually applaud you for keeping an even tone even when people outright ridicule you.

I do think you could benefit from a life-coach of some sort, though. Even a positive mentor would be helpful.

I believe it would be in your best interest to connect with someone positive, that has experienced some success. Then take notes and focus more on the solution than the problem. Grind, hustle, network, whatever. The point is to just sell yourself. Regardless of how hard it is out there I believe you will be unable to gen on a positive trajectory while reinforcing how hopeless it all is in your inner dialogue.

Will yourself to a better spot. Decide to make it happen.


Thanks, but I've already been trying this for four years. Like I said, I'm not really complaining about my own situation, since I think I actually have it better than a lot of people out there. My point here is basically to tell the other side of the story--the story that people run over by the legal industry are too self-conscious, embarrassed, or just exhausted to tell.

I keep having to re-re-re-remake this point on here again and again. My situation is far from unusual at any school outside the T13, and more usual than people think within it. Granted, my anecdotal evidence is a bit skewed because the people I meet at the "jobs" I've had have all suffered a similar fate, but the stats also bear my story out. Even at Tier 1 schools, around a third of the class is not a lawyer at all, and another third is working as a volunteer or in doc review/shitlaw. Since I fall into that middle third, I don't think I have it all that bad. At least I haven't been forced to move back in with my parents--which is also a fairly common outcome within Tier 1. Keep in mind, a lot of these "JD-required, FT, LT" jobs pay so little that the only way you can ever make any progress on your loan debt is to move back in with your parents while you work. I know a ton of people who actually moved back to their hometown to do this--including at least one editor-in-chief of a secondary law journal from a top-tier school.

The notion that I'm some exception or that I've done something uniquely wrong here--and thus my fate is somehow unusual--is completely bogus. This is a normal outcome from T1 schools (let alone TTTs), and the raw numbers suggest that no matter how hard people try, a high percentage of people will end up like this.

Some people simply don't like hearing about this, so they make this thread about only me to distract themselves from the bleak reality that most likely awaits them or makes them feel uncomfortable or whatever. Well, good luck with that, I guess.

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JCougar
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby JCougar » Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:19 pm

NoBladesNoBows wrote:Just want to second respect for JCougs's willingness to ignore the endless stream of ad hominem attacks thrown his way.


It's pretty easy when you truly 100% don't care what people who would make such comments think about you (or what they think about anything else, for that matter). Their opinion is about as valuable as a non-T13 JD these days. :wink:

sparty99
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby sparty99 » Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:28 pm

If you are so desperate then why haven't you done the JAG program?! You said you thought about the military. Well, then go JAG.

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Pneumonia
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby Pneumonia » Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:34 pm

sparty99 wrote:If you are so desperate then why haven't you done the JAG program?! You said you thought about the military. Well, then go JAG.


Yeah either that or an Article III. Have you tried networking JC?

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ReasonableNprudent
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby ReasonableNprudent » Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:52 pm

Never mind.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby TheSpanishMain » Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:18 pm

sparty99 wrote:If you are so desperate then why haven't you done the JAG program?! You said you thought about the military. Well, then go JAG.


Jag is virtually impossible to get for people who have been out of school for awhile. They take like 2% of applicants. I think he should consider the military but only if he's fine with writing off law

sparty99
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby sparty99 » Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:13 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:
sparty99 wrote:If you are so desperate then why haven't you done the JAG program?! You said you thought about the military. Well, then go JAG.


Jag is virtually impossible to get for people who have been out of school for awhile. They take like 2% of applicants. I think he should consider the military but only if he's fine with writing off law


They have programs for practicing attorneys...

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby TheSpanishMain » Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:19 pm

sparty99 wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:
sparty99 wrote:If you are so desperate then why haven't you done the JAG program?! You said you thought about the military. Well, then go JAG.


Jag is virtually impossible to get for people who have been out of school for awhile. They take like 2% of applicants. I think he should consider the military but only if he's fine with writing off law


They have programs for practicing attorneys...


that's what I was saying. Those programs take 2% of the attorneys who apply. It's almost impossible to get
Last edited by TheSpanishMain on Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:21 pm

sparty, come on.

And this thread isn't about how to get JCougar a job or to identify whatever reason he hasn't got whatever job (so people can feel good that they'll be able to avoid THAT mistake and not end up in the same place!!). I've already said that I don't agree with all JCoug's rhetoric. But that doesn't mean he hasn't experienced what he's experienced or that law can't turn out to be a really bad choice even for people at top schools.

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Saddle Up
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby Saddle Up » Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:07 pm

To me the title of this thread, unemployment reaches a new high (15%) sends out a deceptive warning that things on the employment front are becoming worse. As opposed to a topic headline stating that in 2013 unemployment reached 15%.

If one can gauge the current status from reports stating that most firms are having banner profits and that SA hiring is up, then the 2014 outcome is slated to be much rosier than 15% unemployed. Even better, 2015 seems to be moving in the right direction.

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JCougar
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Re: JD Unemployment Reaches New High (15%)

Postby JCougar » Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:18 am

Pneumonia wrote:
sparty99 wrote:If you are so desperate then why haven't you done the JAG program?! You said you thought about the military. Well, then go JAG.


Yeah either that or an Article III. Have you tried networking JC?


LOL.




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