What's going on with HLS's Transfer Stats?

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BillsFan9907
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What's going on with HLS's Transfer Stats?

Postby BillsFan9907 » Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:08 pm

http://hls.harvard.edu/content/uploads/ ... rt2014.pdf

I thought the common wisdom was that your current institution is a critical factor in "transferring up." I was imagining that the overwhelming majority of HLS transfers would, at minimum, hail from lower T-14 schools (or even T20).

Yet, the stats are full of schools like AU, Hastings, Miami, Brooklyn. What's up with that? I'm guessing that yes, if you are ranked first at schools like Miami, then even Harvard is not off the table?

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LoganCouture
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Re: What's going on with HLS's Transfer Stats?

Postby LoganCouture » Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:12 pm

I feel like Spivey said the other day that the struggle to hold high medians -> smaller 1L class sizes -> better opportunities for transfers since schools need to find $$$ from somewhere. Guess even H is not immune.
Last edited by LoganCouture on Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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twenty
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Re: What's going on with HLS's Transfer Stats?

Postby twenty » Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:12 pm

Look at the spreadsheet in the transfers forum. You'll notice that the institution is, as you so aptly pointed out, a "critical factor." It is much harder to transfer into Harvard from Hastings than it is from UCLA.

BillsFan9907
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Re: What's going on with HLS's Transfer Stats?

Postby BillsFan9907 » Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:15 pm

twenty wrote:Look at the spreadsheet in the transfers forum. You'll notice that the institution is, as you so aptly pointed out, a "critical factor." It is much harder to transfer into Harvard from Hastings than it is from UCLA.


I'm not denying that it's harder. My curiosity is that its possible at all. Plus, there is weird stuff even in that regard. 2 from AU but only 1 from Penn?????

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twenty
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Re: What's going on with HLS's Transfer Stats?

Postby twenty » Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:17 pm

That's probably because people at Penn don't have the need to transfer to Harvard if they have the grades to do so. Penn to Harvard would require at least top 30%, and anyone with those kind of grades at Penn would already have a lock on biglaw - so what's the point?

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chuckbass
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Re: What's going on with HLS's Transfer Stats?

Postby chuckbass » Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:17 pm

Seoulless wrote:
twenty wrote:Look at the spreadsheet in the transfers forum. You'll notice that the institution is, as you so aptly pointed out, a "critical factor." It is much harder to transfer into Harvard from Hastings than it is from UCLA.


I'm not denying that it's harder. My curiosity is that its possible at all. Plus, there is weird stuff even in that regard. 2 from AU but only 1 from Penn?????

I mean, most Penn kids aren't trying to transfer.

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fats provolone
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Re: What's going on with HLS's Transfer Stats?

Postby fats provolone » Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:20 pm

lol why would anyone at a T14 voluntarily put the irredeemable stench of transferring on themselves

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Re: What's going on with HLS's Transfer Stats?

Postby BillsFan9907 » Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:25 pm

twenty wrote:That's probably because people at Penn don't have the need to transfer to Harvard if they have the grades to do so. Penn to Harvard would require at least top 30%, and anyone with those kind of grades at Penn would already have a lock on biglaw - so what's the point?


If someone transfers to Harvard, do they get any benefits in terms of clerkship placement etc or are all the perks Harvard has over Penn eliminated? If that's the case, then yeah, it makes perfect sense that there is no point of transferring from Penn to Harvard.

Still though, where do we draw the line? Would you also say that the top 5 students at WUSTL have little to gain from transferring to HLS?

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chuckbass
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Re: What's going on with HLS's Transfer Stats?

Postby chuckbass » Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:29 pm

Seoulless wrote:
twenty wrote:That's probably because people at Penn don't have the need to transfer to Harvard if they have the grades to do so. Penn to Harvard would require at least top 30%, and anyone with those kind of grades at Penn would already have a lock on biglaw - so what's the point?


If someone transfers to Harvard, do they get any benefits in terms of clerkship placement etc or are all the perks Harvard has over Penn eliminated? If that's the case, then yeah, it makes perfect sense that there is no point of transferring from Penn to Harvard.

Still though, where do we draw the line? Would you also say that the top 5 students at WUSTL have little to gain from transferring to HLS?

At least one of the WUSTL students was just top 10%, so in that case it definitely makes sense. Plus if you get aid from HLS and don't have a full ride at WUSTL idk why you wouldn't take the HLS degree.

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fats provolone
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Re: What's going on with HLS's Transfer Stats?

Postby fats provolone » Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:37 pm

why transfer to Harvard when you could just donate to the general scholarship fund directly

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twenty
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Re: What's going on with HLS's Transfer Stats?

Postby twenty » Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:37 pm

Seoulless wrote:
twenty wrote:That's probably because people at Penn don't have the need to transfer to Harvard if they have the grades to do so. Penn to Harvard would require at least top 30%, and anyone with those kind of grades at Penn would already have a lock on biglaw - so what's the point?


If someone transfers to Harvard, do they get any benefits in terms of clerkship placement etc or are all the perks Harvard has over Penn eliminated? If that's the case, then yeah, it makes perfect sense that there is no point of transferring from Penn to Harvard.

Still though, where do we draw the line? Would you also say that the top 5 students at WUSTL have little to gain from transferring to HLS?


This is regurgitation and I wish I had something better to say than "I heard from someone"; but someone mentioned that it's much harder to pick up clerkships as a transferring student because playing catch-up on faculty connections, etc. I don't fully buy this, but whatever.

I would imagine top 10% at WUSTL would have roughly the same chances of getting a federal clerkship as transfer at Harvard (read: there, but not great). I think a lot of this depends on what you're going for. If you're aiming for biglaw and getting money from WUSTL, I have no idea why you'd transfer since top 10% is almost certainly going to get biglaw.

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DoveBodyWash
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Re: What's going on with HLS's Transfer Stats?

Postby DoveBodyWash » Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:38 pm

Seoulless wrote:
twenty wrote:That's probably because people at Penn don't have the need to transfer to Harvard if they have the grades to do so. Penn to Harvard would require at least top 30%, and anyone with those kind of grades at Penn would already have a lock on biglaw - so what's the point?


If someone transfers to Harvard, do they get any benefits in terms of clerkship placement etc or are all the perks Harvard has over Penn eliminated? If that's the case, then yeah, it makes perfect sense that there is no point of transferring from Penn to Harvard.

Still though, where do we draw the line? Would you also say that the top 5 students at WUSTL have little to gain from transferring to HLS?

I've had a few friends transfer from WUSTL to HLS, but i've also had friends at WUSTL who got in--or could have gotten in--to HLS but chose not to go. It really depends on what your goals are. Scholarship matters but it's not as influential from what I've seen. If someone wants to go to HLS or their goals would be substantially furthered by transferring, then they'll transfer whether or not they have a full ride. Of course paying sticker makes it easier to transfer, but i've never seen a full scholarship on its own stop someone from transferring out of WUSTL if they wanted to.

The top 5 students from WUSTL (or even all the way down to top 25% or something) have a pretty good chance at a BigLaw gig. But few people are content with just any BigLaw position, most people have at least a few preferences (e.g. geography, practice-group). Whether or not someone is willing to transfer to improve their chances at attaining those things is a personal decision.

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Re: What's going on with HLS's Transfer Stats?

Postby cavalier2015 » Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:59 pm

^^do you mean literally the top 5 students or the top 5% of students? Also out of curiosity, where do you have to be in class at wustl to feel good/optimistic about your biglaw chances?

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DoveBodyWash
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Re: What's going on with HLS's Transfer Stats?

Postby DoveBodyWash » Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:02 pm

cavalier2015 wrote:^^do you mean literally the top 5 students or the top 5% of students? Also out of curiosity, where do you have to be in class at wustl to feel good/optimistic about your biglaw chances?

i just said top 5 students cuz that's what the OP said.

It's tough to say tbh, because it depends on a lot more than just your grades. Top 10% with ties to Chicago, with good work experience, and great interviewing probably has better chance at Chicago BigLaw than top 5% with no ties, no WE, and shitty interviewing. But if i had to hazard a guess i'd say top 20% is pretty secure for some form of BigLaw without taking geography into account. As long as you apply broadly then you should land on your feet somewhere. That's not to say you're fucked if you're below 20% obviously. Top 33% is probably the floor though for the major markets

ETA: don't wanna derail the thread though, so won't be answering anymore questions about WUSTL prospects. You should ask these sorts of questions in the WUSTL thread
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=130775

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Nebby
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Re: What's going on with HLS's Transfer Stats?

Postby Nebby » Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:32 pm

Their data is in line with the past couple of years of data available on the transfer forum. Top students in the T1 regularly get in.

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anyriotgirl
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Re: What's going on with HLS's Transfer Stats?

Postby anyriotgirl » Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:36 pm

I have heard of people having a lot of success with threatening to transfer and getting money from original school though

this seems like a solid plan

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Nebby
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Re: What's going on with HLS's Transfer Stats?

Postby Nebby » Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:38 pm

Looks like all of the 2014 ABA 509s now have transfer data. That is amazing data for future transfers to use.

They also include Transfer GPAs from 1L. They just made transferring so much less of a black-box.

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chuckbass
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Re: What's going on with HLS's Transfer Stats?

Postby chuckbass » Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:44 pm

CounselorNebby wrote:Looks like all of the 2014 ABA 509s now have transfer data. That is amazing data for future transfers to use.

They also include Transfer GPAs from 1L. They just made transferring so much less of a black-box.

Yeah seriously all of this info is really nice to see.

bl1nds1ght
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Re: What's going on with HLS's Transfer Stats?

Postby bl1nds1ght » Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:56 pm

fats provolone wrote:lol why would anyone at a T14 voluntarily put the irredeemable stench of transferring on themselves

I'm curious why this was said. Obviously there could be (and probably is) some truth to it, but I also am not good with text-based humor, just in case it's a joke.

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pancakes3
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Re: What's going on with HLS's Transfer Stats?

Postby pancakes3 » Mon Dec 29, 2014 4:07 pm

Yale: http://www.law.yale.edu/documents/pdf/A ... t_Yale.pdf
Harvard: http://hls.harvard.edu/content/uploads/ ... rt2014.pdf
Stanford: https://www.law.stanford.edu/sites/defa ... 014-12.pdf
Columbia: http://web.law.columbia.edu/sites/defau ... -53-48.pdf
Chicago: http://www.law.uchicago.edu/files/file/ ... t_2014.pdf
NYU: http://www.law.nyu.edu/sites/default/fi ... Report.pdf
Boalt: http://www.law.berkeley.edu/files/Std50 ... t_2014.pdf
Michigan: http://www.law.umich.edu/aboutus/Docume ... -31-56.pdf
Penn: https://www.law.upenn.edu/live/files/40 ... t--2014pdf
Duke: https://law.duke.edu/sites/default/file ... 2014_2.pdf
GULC: http://www.law.georgetown.edu/admission ... Report.pdf

For whatever reason, Cornell and UVa didn't include the transfer appendix but they took in 5, and 4 transfers respectively.

Cornell: http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/about/ ... 25-1-2.pdf
UVa: http://www.law.virginia.edu/pdf/aba/2014aba.pdf

And if AU looks like they're pretty much on every list outside of HYS, it's because they lose 100 L's (21%) every year due to transfer attrition. It makes me sad that there are 44 people who transfer IN to American every year.

http://www.wcl.american.edu/admiss/docu ... report.pdf

Charleston School of Law is even worse. They lost 25% of their class due to transfer/dropping out/etc.
http://www.charlestonlaw.edu/Prospectiv ... -2013.aspx

WUSTL seems very TTTransfer friendly, having 13 out and 44 in.
http://law.wustl.edu/admissions/documen ... 121014.pdf

And to close it out, holy shit you have to wonder wtf is going on at Cooley - not just the transfer stats.
Cooley:http://www.cooley.edu/publicinformation/_docs/2014_aba_standard_509_information.pdf

bl1nds1ght
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Re: What's going on with HLS's Transfer Stats?

Postby bl1nds1ght » Mon Dec 29, 2014 4:10 pm

pancakes3 wrote:For whatever reason, Cornell and UVa didn't include the transfer appendix but they took in 5, and 4 transfers respectively.

Schools with 5 or fewer transfers are not required to provide the breakdown.

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fats provolone
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Re: What's going on with HLS's Transfer Stats?

Postby fats provolone » Mon Dec 29, 2014 4:11 pm

anyriotgirl wrote:I have heard of people having a lot of success with threatening to transfer and getting money from original school though

this seems like a solid plan

hard to resist the prestige once you get in though

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Nebby
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Re: What's going on with HLS's Transfer Stats?

Postby Nebby » Mon Dec 29, 2014 4:12 pm

Pancake, I compiled that data already and posted it in the transfer forum.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=241498

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Re: What's going on with HLS's Transfer Stats?

Postby toothbrush » Mon Dec 29, 2014 4:18 pm

bl1nds1ght wrote:
fats provolone wrote:lol why would anyone at a T14 voluntarily put the irredeemable stench of transferring on themselves

I'm curious why this was said. Obviously there could be (and probably is) some truth to it, but I also am not good with text-based humor, just in case it's a joke.

he's just kidding (mostly)

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fats provolone
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Re: What's going on with HLS's Transfer Stats?

Postby fats provolone » Mon Dec 29, 2014 4:30 pm

toothbrush wrote:
bl1nds1ght wrote:
fats provolone wrote:lol why would anyone at a T14 voluntarily put the irredeemable stench of transferring on themselves

I'm curious why this was said. Obviously there could be (and probably is) some truth to it, but I also am not good with text-based humor, just in case it's a joke.

he's just kidding (mostly)

(slightly)




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