"Bad" Law Schools

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mattf
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"Bad" Law Schools

Postby mattf » Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:01 pm

I was just curious if there were any law schools out there that are known for really bad job placement/relatively high bar exam fail rate, etc. Or does it not really make a difference for the average person trying to get a job as a lawyer where you got your JD from?

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twenty
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Re: "Bad" Law Schools

Postby twenty » Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:07 pm

Law schools are "bad" if, after three years of law school, you can't find a job as an attorney. Bar pass rates really should be in the 80-100% across the board, and the fact that schools have lower pass rates than that is probably more indicative of the fact that their students can't read.

Obviously "bad" varies by who you ask. I think you'd find that some people on this forum wouldn't go to Georgetown for less than a full ride, and other people would consider University of San Diego at a 2/3 scholarship. It usually comes down to unemployment risk vs. how much debt you can stomach. Yale is pretty much universally considered "good" and Cooley is universally considered "bad." Make up your own mind on the schools in between.

thisismyname
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Re: "Bad" Law Schools

Postby thisismyname » Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:32 pm

http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/

Here's a good start. There are definitely a lot of "bad" law schools.

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: "Bad" Law Schools

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:39 am

T14
Strong Regionals
State flagships

other than these, pretty much every law school is bad and not worth attending under most circumstances

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20160810
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Re: "Bad" Law Schools

Postby 20160810 » Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:12 am

Nope they're all good

mattf
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Re: "Bad" Law Schools

Postby mattf » Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:54 am

james.bungles wrote:T14
Strong Regionals
State flagships

other than these, pretty much every law school is bad and not worth attending under most circumstances


What are considered strong regionals? And what are strong flagships?
Last edited by mattf on Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

mvp99
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Re: "Bad" Law Schools

Postby mvp99 » Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:56 am

mattf wrote:
james.bungles wrote:T14
Strong Regionals
State flagships

other than these, pretty much every law school is bad and not worth attending under most circumstances


Why are most law schools not worth attending if they aren't T14? This isn't the first time I've heard this.


twenty wrote:Law schools are "bad" if, after three years of law school, you can't find a job as an attorney. Bar pass rates really should be in the 80-100% across the board, and the fact that schools have lower pass rates than that is probably more indicative of the fact that their students can't read.

Obviously "bad" varies by who you ask. I think you'd find that some people on this forum wouldn't go to Georgetown for less than a full ride, and other people would consider University of San Diego at a 2/3 scholarship. It usually comes down to unemployment risk vs. how much debt you can stomach. Yale is pretty much universally considered "good" and Cooley is universally considered "bad." Make up your own mind on the schools in between.

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lawschool1741
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Re: "Bad" Law Schools

Postby lawschool1741 » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:00 pm

mattf wrote:What are considered strong regionals? And what are strong flagships?


Outside of the T14, think: UT, UGA, UAlabama, UIowa, UCLA, UW-Madison, etc. Honestly, rankings do a fair enough job of telling you which law schools are worth attending. Then get more detailed stats through LST.

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lawschool1741
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Re: "Bad" Law Schools

Postby lawschool1741 » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:03 pm

Random follow-up question: Has the T14 ever changed? If not, will it ever?

Seems there is a fair amount of historical 'prestige' built into the rankings. Can this ever be overcome by a T20?

thisismyname
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Re: "Bad" Law Schools

Postby thisismyname » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:04 pm

mattf wrote:
james.bungles wrote:T14
Strong Regionals
State flagships

other than these, pretty much every law school is bad and not worth attending under most circumstances


Why are most law schools not worth attending if they aren't T14? This isn't the first time I've heard this.


Many people don't think that having anything less than an 85% of employment chances is worth going to school for. And outside T14 schools, you're not going to see that high of an employment rate. There are others that think that strong regional schools are good if you either want to practice in the region or are from the region. But these schools only really make sense if you can get them for a low COA. If I were choosing a law school, if I found a law school in the region I wanted to practice, I could go at a huge discount (in other words, not pulling out over 100K in loans), and their employment rate was at least over about 60% (sadly, that's decent for schools outside of T14), then I would still consider the school. There are other factors, such as what you want to do with a law degree (i.e. if you want biglaw, you would want to make sure the school has more than a 10% shot at it before attending even if all those other criteria were met). Basically, T14 or bust is not everyone. It really depends on your circumstances and goals.

BigZuck
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Re: "Bad" Law Schools

Postby BigZuck » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:23 pm

lawschool1741 wrote:Random follow-up question: Has the T14 ever changed? If not, will it ever?

Seems there is a fair amount of historical 'prestige' built into the rankings. Can this ever be overcome by a T20?


1. Not really

2. Highly doubtful

3. Not sure what you mean by overcome

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lawschool1741
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Re: "Bad" Law Schools

Postby lawschool1741 » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:27 pm

BigZuck wrote:
1. Not really

2. Highly doubtful

3. Not sure what you mean by overcome


Thanks! I meant like a T20 making its way into the T14 over time, 'overcoming' the historical prestige factor or w/e

Turtledove
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Re: "Bad" Law Schools

Postby Turtledove » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:29 pm

lawschool1741 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
1. Not really

2. Highly doubtful

3. Not sure what you mean by overcome


Thanks! I meant like a T20 making its way into the T14 over time, 'overcoming' the historical prestige factor or w/e


There is zero chance of this happening in any sort of time frame that would be relevant for you.
Last edited by Turtledove on Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mvp99
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Re: "Bad" Law Schools

Postby mvp99 » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:34 pm

And it doesn't matter on its own. Don't chase prestige if it doesn't really translate into better job prospects or a better alternative overall.
Last edited by mvp99 on Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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lawschool1741
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Re: "Bad" Law Schools

Postby lawschool1741 » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:35 pm

Turtledove wrote:There is zero chance of this happenong in any sort of time frame that would be relevant for you.

Figured. Was just wondering

Wingtip88
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Re: "Bad" Law Schools

Postby Wingtip88 » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:49 pm

Law school (any higher education, really) needs to be considered in terms of debt- reward risk calculus. What bet are you placing (in terms of interest-bearing loans) for what chances at gainful employment?

Taking on larger debt for a T14 makes sense* (depending on career goals) but outside of that, considering rising costs and diminishing career prospects, you really need to keep your focus on minimizing debt.

Attending a low tier school with poor job prospects for a large debt is potentially akin to executing a mortgage for which you do not receive a house. It's senseless.

*I spoke recently with a family friend and former Managing Partner of over a decade at a V50 law firm who opined that he would recommend an elite school but for "nothing like the full price so many people borrow."

mattf
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Re: "Bad" Law Schools

Postby mattf » Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:15 pm

So going to a lower-tier school with a really good scholarship wouldn't be a bad decision?

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fats provolone
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Re: "Bad" Law Schools

Postby fats provolone » Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:20 pm

SBL wrote:Nope they're all good

BigZuck
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Re: "Bad" Law Schools

Postby BigZuck » Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:23 pm

mattf wrote:So going to a lower-tier school with a really good scholarship wouldn't be a bad decision?


Completely impossible to answer this in the abstract without knowing a ton more info, such as which school, where do you want to work, what kind of job do you want, how much would it cost, etc.




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