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Ron Don Volante
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Re: Future JD student - need advice - help!

Postby Ron Don Volante » Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:23 am

ood wrote:Nevermind, you should totally go all in. Disregard all the advice the posters above me are peddling. You are not a number or another statistic. You are unique and law schools will see you shine. :)

Yeah fuck these guys OP, don't give a second thought to their silly "numbers" and "evidence" and "rational thoughts"

I go to UT and got in w/ a crap LSAT: copped dat Polish ancestry URM boost. These fuckers have no idea

AReasonableMan
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Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:32 pm

Re: Future JD student - need advice - help!

Postby AReasonableMan » Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:30 am

It's URM, not M. Cubans are a minority but not underrepresented in law. This is because many Cubans who come here are pretty wealthy so more of their kids are lawyers.

I would normally advise retaking but I can tell from your posts you're special so what is true for most isn't true for you. All you need is to make sure you hit it out of the park in school.

Buy Ingredients for Making A's in Law School by J.A. Davis, and you'll be very surprised where you are 5 years from now!!

Again, don't feel you must retake if you don't have the time. It's only the main part of law school admission but why spend your time on that? I always wanted to open a Six Flags but not construct any rides, just parking and awesome food courts. If the parking lot is awesome enough people will come just for the convenience.

SPerez
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Re: Future JD student - need advice - help!

Postby SPerez » Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:16 pm

I have to echo Dirigo in that, based on what you've said, you may have "overthought" going to law school, but you have not over-researched. Things aren't as black and white as most of the comments on here, but they're also not far off, either.

If your GPA were 3.8-ish you would have a decent shot at UH and SMU, but much less so in the 3.5 range. I don't really trust sites that rely on a small sample of students who self-report results, but most schools list their actual admits in ranges on LSAC.org. Tulane lists your numbers as "Possible"; not a word that would make me confident. For UH, in 2013 they only admitted 6 students with 150-154 and 3.25-3.49 out of 111 applicants. Even TAMU might not be the slam dunk it appears. They jumped 2 pts. this year to 154, leaving you below their median now. I think your chances are still good (better than 50%), but you never know.

For statistical purposes, all "H's" (even Cubans, and all other minorities for that matter) "count". I.e. all the % minority stats you see include Cubans, whether or not they are considered underrepresented or not. Whether or not that's enough for a school to give you a bump will depend on the school. In Texas, it's not like UH is hurting for Hispanic students and unless you come from South Florida or were actually born in Cuba, a school might not really see you as bringing something distinct to the table.

I agree that the prudent thing to do would be to work out in the real world for at least a year while you REALLY study for the LSAT. Like, at least six months of consistent, 4+ days a week study. Working is never a waste of time. It's not like you're 50 years old with kids and a limited window left to your working years. One or two years now will make you still young when you finish law school, but could drastically alter the trajectory of your professional career if it results in better law school prospects. If it doesn't, the worst case is that you gained some real-world experience, saved some money, and come up with a better answer as to why you want to become a lawyer. There is pretty much no downside to waiting.

If you haven't yet, go talk to Karen Severn in the prelaw advising office. Despite TLS's general opinion on prelaw advisers, she's been at this a long time and knows her stuff. She won't BS you.

Dean Perez
Texas Tech Law

LegalEagle111
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:46 am

Re: Future JD student - need advice - help!

Postby LegalEagle111 » Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:12 am

Ron Don Volante wrote:
ood wrote:Nevermind, you should totally go all in. Disregard all the advice the posters above me are peddling. You are not a number or another statistic. You are unique and law schools will see you shine. :)

Yeah fuck these guys OP, don't give a second thought to their silly "numbers" and "evidence" and "rational thoughts"

I go to UT and got in w/ a crap LSAT: copped dat Polish ancestry URM boost. These fuckers have no idea



haha thank you for the advice! I hope I have as much favor as you!

LegalEagle111
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:46 am

Re: Future JD student - need advice - help!

Postby LegalEagle111 » Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:13 am

SPerez wrote:I have to echo Dirigo in that, based on what you've said, you may have "overthought" going to law school, but you have not over-researched. Things aren't as black and white as most of the comments on here, but they're also not far off, either.

If your GPA were 3.8-ish you would have a decent shot at UH and SMU, but much less so in the 3.5 range. I don't really trust sites that rely on a small sample of students who self-report results, but most schools list their actual admits in ranges on LSAC.org. Tulane lists your numbers as "Possible"; not a word that would make me confident. For UH, in 2013 they only admitted 6 students with 150-154 and 3.25-3.49 out of 111 applicants. Even TAMU might not be the slam dunk it appears. They jumped 2 pts. this year to 154, leaving you below their median now. I think your chances are still good (better than 50%), but you never know.

For statistical purposes, all "H's" (even Cubans, and all other minorities for that matter) "count". I.e. all the % minority stats you see include Cubans, whether or not they are considered underrepresented or not. Whether or not that's enough for a school to give you a bump will depend on the school. In Texas, it's not like UH is hurting for Hispanic students and unless you come from South Florida or were actually born in Cuba, a school might not really see you as bringing something distinct to the table.

I agree that the prudent thing to do would be to work out in the real world for at least a year while you REALLY study for the LSAT. Like, at least six months of consistent, 4+ days a week study. Working is never a waste of time. It's not like you're 50 years old with kids and a limited window left to your working years. One or two years now will make you still young when you finish law school, but could drastically alter the trajectory of your professional career if it results in better law school prospects. If it doesn't, the worst case is that you gained some real-world experience, saved some money, and come up with a better answer as to why you want to become a lawyer. There is pretty much no downside to waiting.

If you haven't yet, go talk to Karen Severn in the prelaw advising office. Despite TLS's general opinion on prelaw advisers, she's been at this a long time and knows her stuff. She won't BS you.

Dean Perez
Texas Tech Law



Thank you so much for all of your feedback/advice! I really appreciate it! If Tech weren't so far away I would love to go there.

K. Bail
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:48 am

Re: Future JD student - need advice - help!

Postby K. Bail » Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:18 am

Legal Eagle-

I hope you don't identify that way outside of this forum.
Changing your future plans is one thing, changing your identity is hard.

I'm a 3L. I had slightly higher grades and a 164. (I feel my grades were artificially high because I was an English major, which was pretty easy) I applied to all the schools you want to and got into all but UT and Tulane.
I HATE LAWSCHOOL. I hate it. I dread every bit of it. I once got into a car wreck on the way to a trial advocacy bench trial in order to avoid it. (Didn't work- still had to argue my case.)

This is not undergrad. The exams are fucking brutal and they are usually 95-98% of your grade. No midterms, no small assignments. Just you and your laptop and 3 hours to write everything you know. Some of these crazy assholes write 60 pages in that time. They're machines. Its insane.

The GI bill paid for most of my school, so my losses are minimal. I've stayed this long because I want to do immigration. Practicing immigration is almost nothing like other types of law. I've got a lot of experience with it and can feel good about what I'm doing. Would I put myself through 3 years of hell again to do this? No way. Never. My grades suck. I've lost a lot of weight due to stress. 99% of the time, I'm cool with being the resident loser. That 1% of the time when I feel like I'm losing my mind is not offset by being just "ok" with my GPA, preclusion from any big firm jobs, etc.

There are so many other wonderful careers out there. Go work. Do anything. Get some experience. If you still have dreams of being a lawyer in 5 years, take the LSAT again and really put some time in it. Work your way through an entire work book or two. I did all my studying totally independently. Those classes are shit. Real world experience will bolster your app. Going straight through undergrad, you'll just burnout. Most of the students at UH did something interesting between undergrad and law school.

I hope this helps. Not going to law school does not mean you're not smart. You seem very intelligent. But you have to be willing to commit every ounce of your being to law school, and I think you'd find that the law and how it is taught is not what you'd expect. Enjoy the real world for a while before you go down that rabbit hole.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Future JD student - need advice - help!

Postby TheSpanishMain » Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:29 am

LegalEagle111 wrote:
Ron Don Volante wrote:
ood wrote:Nevermind, you should totally go all in. Disregard all the advice the posters above me are peddling. You are not a number or another statistic. You are unique and law schools will see you shine. :)

Yeah fuck these guys OP, don't give a second thought to their silly "numbers" and "evidence" and "rational thoughts"

I go to UT and got in w/ a crap LSAT: copped dat Polish ancestry URM boost. These fuckers have no idea



haha thank you for the advice! I hope I have as much favor as you!


He's right. Polish ancestry is the biggest boost of all.

AReasonableMan
Posts: 1504
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:32 pm

Re: Future JD student - need advice - help!

Postby AReasonableMan » Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:28 pm

LegalEagle111 wrote:
Brut wrote:how important is it to you to obtain legal employment after graduating from law school?
how much would you like to earn if you do find legal employment?
how much debt are you willing to take out?

i'm not trying to play "gotcha"
these are questions you should answer before you even THINK about law school


If I had another way to earn a comfortable income, (six figures) I wouldn't mind if it wasn't in the legal field.

If I do find legal employment I would like to earn 90K+ my first year.

My parents will pay for everything if I go to a school thats reasonably priced (University of Texas/University of Houston)... but if I got into a school like Georgetown for example, (Which is obviously far fetched at this point) I would probably take out loans... I'm not really sure how much... not more than 100k

Your odds of making a 100k are very low with a 152 (under 10 percent). If this is your best them it's probably amplified. It's nice your parents can supply a 100k for you to go so your worst case isn't exactly the poor house. However, the idea law is your 6-figure pathway is very misguided. You're relying on killing law school which are all tests.

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ballcaps
Posts: 527
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Re: Future JD student - need advice - help!

Postby ballcaps » Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:48 pm

LegalEagle111 wrote:
Dirigo wrote:
LegalEagle111 wrote:I really have no idea where to start... I've been overthinking this whole law school thing for like the last 10 months...My LSAT scores are a 152 and 153 (which I know are far from great).

You should have spend those 10 months studying for the LSAT.
LegalEagle111 wrote:I'm in several organizations (ex- pre-law, special olympics) and am a co-founder/hold a position in another club. I'm in various honor societies and spent two summers studying abroad (8 countries).
I have letters of recommendation from a federal judge, tenure professor and a successful attorney.

Unfortunately, these soft factors aren't going to help you at all with admissions.
98% of law school admissions decisions are based on two things: LSAT & LSDAS GPA.
LegalEagle111 wrote:I'm also Cuban (URM)

Cubans aren't URM's. You will get no boost.
LegalEagle111 wrote:I'm so bummed with my LSAT score because I feel like the rest of my application is ok but I don't know if I'll be able to improve my score if I take it again and I honestly don't have the time.

Then you shouldn't go to law school. Seriously. If you're going to settle for being mediocre now, then there is really no point in wasting your time and money.
LegalEagle111 wrote:While at this point I'd be happy to be accepted into any of these schools, none of them were "the dream".

Don't settle. Retake.
LegalEagle111 wrote:Do I have a shot at any of those schools?

The University of Texas
Absolutely zero chance.
Tulane
No chance.
SMU
No chance.
Baylor
Very slim chance.
Texas A&M
Good shot, but you'll get no significant money. Not a good school.
The University of Houston
Very slim chance.
LSU
Slim chance, but don't go to school in Louisiana if you aren't from Louisiana.
South Texas College of Law
Accepted, but not a good school.
LegalEagle111 wrote:Am I making a mistake by not taking the LSAT again?

A HUGE mistake. Really study this time. What you've been doing obviously hasn't worked. Check out the Prep forum for advice regarding study materials.
LegalEagle111 wrote:Am I just worrying to much (is my app. stronger than I think? Should I apply at more "long shot" schools (ex: georgetown) just to see? Will being a minority help? Any/all advise is appreciated! Thanks...

Umm no. Your app is a lot weaker than you probably think, so don't waste your money on long shot schools when most of the schools you listed are long shots.
& as previously stated, you're not a URM, so no that won't help you overcome your very weak LSAT.


I appreciate your feedback but I'm pretty confident I'll get into Tulane and the University of Houston. Also, how is being Cuban not a URM? It's Hispanic - same thing


because it's not. if you disagree with this on a theoretical basis, feel free to address the countless law schools for whom this is unambiguously the policy.

you need to study more, until you make real, meaningful progress. otherwise you should not attend law school, because if you do it will be a low-ranked one, it will cost a lot of money, and you won't get a job.

i'm sorry to tell you, but this is the truth.




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