Did i just ruin my chances of getting into Harvard?

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Phil Brooks
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Re: Did i just ruin my chances of getting into Harvard?

Postby Phil Brooks » Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:49 pm

I have to ask: as a 19-year-old, do you have any reason for wanting to go to this school other than "It's preftigious"? Is there a particular job you want that only Harvard can realistically get for you? Because if prestige is your only reason, I suggest that a bit more perspective is in order (especially considering the ordeal you have just gone through and the new lease on life you have just gotten), and that you can use your talent as exhibited in your high school academic performance to get a huge merit scholarship to a comparable T-14 school.

Tuition will not come down until intelligent students stop being blinded by prestige and start going where they can get merit scholarships (read: not Harvard). Once Harvard starts consistently losing enough prospective students to merit scholarships at the rest of the T-14, it will have to start competing on price. And, like dominoes, every other school on down will become more price conscious.

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bluchai
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Re: Did i just ruin my chances of getting into Harvard?

Postby bluchai » Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:54 pm

Phil Brooks wrote:
Tuition will not come down until intelligent students stop being blinded by prestige and start going where they can get merit scholarships (read: not Harvard). Once Harvard starts consistently losing enough prospective students to merit scholarships at the rest of the T-14, it will have to start competing on price. And, like dominoes, every other school on down will become more price conscious.


Going where I could get a merit scholarship was one of the worst decisions I've made.

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ballcaps
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Re: Did i just ruin my chances of getting into Harvard?

Postby ballcaps » Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:06 pm

Phil Brooks wrote:Tuition will not come down until intelligent students stop being blinded by prestige and start going where they can get merit scholarships (read: not Harvard). Once Harvard starts consistently losing enough prospective students to merit scholarships at the rest of the T-14, it will have to start competing on price. And, like dominoes, every other school on down will become more price conscious.


you're obscuring a lot of complexity here. pre(s/f)tige is indeed a vacuous concept, in and of itself.

HOWEVER.

it becomes quite meaningful when it's the primary determinant of job prospects in a shriveled market.

again, i agree with the thrust of your argument - that it's nonsensical for harvard et al. to command such a high (real) price relative to other top schools when what they're offering isn't substantively different.

but law school is an investment like few others, the market for lawyers is historically terrible, and harvard et al. decidedly and unambiguously offer something MORE than any other school.

that thing is prestige, and it matters, because employment matters, and that's not gonna change, at least not anytime soon.

Phil Brooks
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Re: Did i just ruin my chances of getting into Harvard?

Postby Phil Brooks » Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:18 pm

ballcaps wrote:
Phil Brooks wrote:Tuition will not come down until intelligent students stop being blinded by prestige and start going where they can get merit scholarships (read: not Harvard). Once Harvard starts consistently losing enough prospective students to merit scholarships at the rest of the T-14, it will have to start competing on price. And, like dominoes, every other school on down will become more price conscious.


you're obscuring a lot of complexity here. pre(s/f)tige is indeed a vacuous concept, in and of itself.

HOWEVER.

it becomes quite meaningful when it's the primary determinant of job prospects in a shriveled market.

again, i agree with the thrust of your argument - that it's nonsensical for harvard et al. to command such a high (real) price relative to other top schools when what they're offering isn't substantively different.

but law school is an investment like few others, the market for lawyers is historically terrible, and harvard et al. decidedly and unambiguously offer something MORE than any other school.

that thing is prestige, and it matters, because employment matters, and that's not gonna change, at least not anytime soon.


I was containing my argument to T-14. Turning down a Dillard at UVA in order to go to Harvard at sticker is unjustifiable, in my opinion. OP has not indicated that he or she wants to clerk for the Supreme Court or go into academia. As I said, if OP has a career goal that only Harvard can fulfill, then by all means. Otherwise, he or she is just lining the pockets of a scam artist who sold him or her something that could have been obtained at a peer school for half the price.

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Elston Gunn
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Re: Did i just ruin my chances of getting into Harvard?

Postby Elston Gunn » Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:43 pm

The real issue is that no 19 year old should be set on law school.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Did i just ruin my chances of getting into Harvard?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:11 pm

bluchai wrote:
Phil Brooks wrote:
Tuition will not come down until intelligent students stop being blinded by prestige and start going where they can get merit scholarships (read: not Harvard). Once Harvard starts consistently losing enough prospective students to merit scholarships at the rest of the T-14, it will have to start competing on price. And, like dominoes, every other school on down will become more price conscious.


Going where I could get a merit scholarship was one of the worst decisions I've made.

Except aren't you not yet in law school, so you haven't made that decision yet?

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jbagelboy
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Re: Did i just ruin my chances of getting into Harvard?

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:13 pm

Phil Brooks wrote:
ballcaps wrote:
Phil Brooks wrote:Tuition will not come down until intelligent students stop being blinded by prestige and start going where they can get merit scholarships (read: not Harvard). Once Harvard starts consistently losing enough prospective students to merit scholarships at the rest of the T-14, it will have to start competing on price. And, like dominoes, every other school on down will become more price conscious.


you're obscuring a lot of complexity here. pre(s/f)tige is indeed a vacuous concept, in and of itself.

HOWEVER.

it becomes quite meaningful when it's the primary determinant of job prospects in a shriveled market.

again, i agree with the thrust of your argument - that it's nonsensical for harvard et al. to command such a high (real) price relative to other top schools when what they're offering isn't substantively different.

but law school is an investment like few others, the market for lawyers is historically terrible, and harvard et al. decidedly and unambiguously offer something MORE than any other school.

that thing is prestige, and it matters, because employment matters, and that's not gonna change, at least not anytime soon.


I was containing my argument to T-14. Turning down a Dillard at UVA in order to go to Harvard at sticker is unjustifiable, in my opinion. OP has not indicated that he or she wants to clerk for the Supreme Court or go into academia. As I said, if OP has a career goal that only Harvard can fulfill, then by all means. Otherwise, he or she is just lining the pockets of a scam artist who sold him or her something that could have been obtained at a peer school for half the price.


This conversation is uncomfortably premature

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ballcaps
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Re: Did i just ruin my chances of getting into Harvard?

Postby ballcaps » Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:22 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
Phil Brooks wrote:
ballcaps wrote:
Phil Brooks wrote:Tuition will not come down until intelligent students stop being blinded by prestige and start going where they can get merit scholarships (read: not Harvard). Once Harvard starts consistently losing enough prospective students to merit scholarships at the rest of the T-14, it will have to start competing on price. And, like dominoes, every other school on down will become more price conscious.


you're obscuring a lot of complexity here. pre(s/f)tige is indeed a vacuous concept, in and of itself.

HOWEVER.

it becomes quite meaningful when it's the primary determinant of job prospects in a shriveled market.

again, i agree with the thrust of your argument - that it's nonsensical for harvard et al. to command such a high (real) price relative to other top schools when what they're offering isn't substantively different.

but law school is an investment like few others, the market for lawyers is historically terrible, and harvard et al. decidedly and unambiguously offer something MORE than any other school.

that thing is prestige, and it matters, because employment matters, and that's not gonna change, at least not anytime soon.


I was containing my argument to T-14. Turning down a Dillard at UVA in order to go to Harvard at sticker is unjustifiable, in my opinion. OP has not indicated that he or she wants to clerk for the Supreme Court or go into academia. As I said, if OP has a career goal that only Harvard can fulfill, then by all means. Otherwise, he or she is just lining the pockets of a scam artist who sold him or her something that could have been obtained at a peer school for half the price.


This conversation is uncomfortably premature


vis-a-vis what? the OP's position? in that case i completely agree (as per my original post), i just felt compelled to respond to phil.

phil: in that case, i do agree. employment stats are not sufficiently different among the top 10/14 to justify the increased cost, provided you're talking about a substantial-enough difference.

out of curiosity, what would you say that is?

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jbagelboy
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Re: Did i just ruin my chances of getting into Harvard?

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:43 pm

For the OP.

AReasonableMan
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Re: Did i just ruin my chances of getting into Harvard?

Postby AReasonableMan » Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:21 am

To OP: Different ways of thinking work for different people. Don't listen to people telling you not to have a goal if having a vision board helps you do better. Having to deal with the stress you just had to deal with must have sucked, and most people will be empathetic. Maybe you sunk so low that your cumulative GPA will always hold you out of Harvard, but nothing is so zero sum that it's Harvard or failure. Young people think in histrionics. You will outgrow this in a few years. Do the best you can with the cards you have.

Phil Brooks
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Re: Did i just ruin my chances of getting into Harvard?

Postby Phil Brooks » Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:25 am

AReasonableMan wrote:To OP: Different ways of thinking work for different people. Don't listen to people telling you not to have a goal if having a vision board helps you do better. Having to deal with the stress you just had to deal with must have sucked, and most people will be empathetic. Maybe you sunk so low that your cumulative GPA will always hold you out of Harvard, but nothing is so zero sum that it's Harvard or failure. Young people think in histrionics. You will outgrow this in a few years. Do the best you can with the cards you have.


Perhaps this is a better way to express what I was trying to say.




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