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Joombi
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Postby Joombi » Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:39 am

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Last edited by Joombi on Sat Sep 10, 2016 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ymmv
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Re: 169, 3.89 ED to UPenn financial qs

Postby ymmv » Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:45 am

Don't ED. You will get shit for money. You're already retaking, so after that apply RD and write a good Why Penn.

"Family and friends in the area" is not a good enough reason to take sticker Penn over $$$ Cornell/NU, if it comes to that, unless you're 100% damn sure you want Philly biglaw at any cost. And even then it's iffy, given how many Philly residents strike out at the Philly biglaw market.

Joombi
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Re: 169, 3.89 ED to UPenn financial qs

Postby Joombi » Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:51 am

I'm definitely not 100% damn sure that I want Philly biglaw. I'll be applying next cycle so I have a bit of time to think about it, but I guess it really comes down to the retake.

But just how big is the discrepancy in $$? Even anecdotal stuff helps at this point.

Oh, and a more general question, in law schools, can you audit undergraduate courses? Grad students at my current undergrad can, and many of them take a language class at the undergrad, which I'd love to do.

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ymmv
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Re: 169, 3.89 ED to UPenn financial qs

Postby ymmv » Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:56 am

Joombi wrote:I'm definitely not 100% damn sure that I want Philly biglaw. I'll be applying next cycle so I have a bit of time to think about it, but I guess it really comes down to the retake.

But just how big is the discrepancy in $$? Even anecdotal stuff helps at this point.

Oh, and a more general question, in law schools, can you audit undergraduate courses? Grad students at my current undergrad can, and many of them take a language class at the undergrad, which I'd love to do.


Anecdotally, everyone I know who ED'd got no scholarship whatsoever, regardless of their numbers. TLS groupthink (which I agree with in this case) is that you shouldn't go to law school for sticker anywhere. What cost is actually worth it is highly contextual and up for debate depending on your goals.

Yes, Penn Law students can audit undergraduate/graduate courses from around the university. You have to get it approved both by the department and the law school, but it's an easy formality.

Joombi
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Re: 169, 3.89 ED to UPenn financial qs

Postby Joombi » Fri Nov 21, 2014 1:16 pm

ymmv wrote:
Joombi wrote:I'm definitely not 100% damn sure that I want Philly biglaw. I'll be applying next cycle so I have a bit of time to think about it, but I guess it really comes down to the retake.

But just how big is the discrepancy in $$? Even anecdotal stuff helps at this point.

Oh, and a more general question, in law schools, can you audit undergraduate courses? Grad students at my current undergrad can, and many of them take a language class at the undergrad, which I'd love to do.


Anecdotally, everyone I know who ED'd got no scholarship whatsoever, regardless of their numbers. TLS groupthink (which I agree with in this case) is that you shouldn't go to law school for sticker anywhere. What cost is actually worth it is highly contextual and up for debate depending on your goals.

Yes, Penn Law students can audit undergraduate/graduate courses from around the university. You have to get it approved both by the department and the law school, but it's an easy formality.


Ah. I think the bolded text makes my decision easy. Sticker is unrealistic for me, so RD it is. Thanks for the help! Also it's cool to see that we can audit classes.

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ymmv
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Re: 169, 3.89 ED to UPenn financial qs

Postby ymmv » Fri Nov 21, 2014 1:26 pm

Joombi wrote:
ymmv wrote:
Joombi wrote:I'm definitely not 100% damn sure that I want Philly biglaw. I'll be applying next cycle so I have a bit of time to think about it, but I guess it really comes down to the retake.

But just how big is the discrepancy in $$? Even anecdotal stuff helps at this point.

Oh, and a more general question, in law schools, can you audit undergraduate courses? Grad students at my current undergrad can, and many of them take a language class at the undergrad, which I'd love to do.


Anecdotally, everyone I know who ED'd got no scholarship whatsoever, regardless of their numbers. TLS groupthink (which I agree with in this case) is that you shouldn't go to law school for sticker anywhere. What cost is actually worth it is highly contextual and up for debate depending on your goals.

Yes, Penn Law students can audit undergraduate/graduate courses from around the university. You have to get it approved both by the department and the law school, but it's an easy formality.


Ah. I think the bolded text makes my decision easy. Sticker is unrealistic for me, so RD it is. Thanks for the help! Also it's cool to see that we can audit classes.


Yeah, I'm not sure it technically qualifies as "auditing," but whether you take the courses for a grade or pass/fail, it won't be calculated in your law school GPA, even though it does help fulfill graduate credit requirements.

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Ron Don Volante
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Re: 169, 3.89 ED to UPenn financial qs

Postby Ron Don Volante » Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:00 pm

do not ed get out of it asap to rd

03152016
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Re: 169, 3.89 ED to UPenn financial qs

Postby 03152016 » Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:01 pm

Ron Don Volante wrote:do not ed get out of it asap to rd

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transferror
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Re: 169, 3.89 ED to UPenn financial qs

Postby transferror » Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:12 pm

Brut wrote:
Ron Don Volante wrote:do not ed get out of it asap to rd


the only ED worth doing is Northwestern since it has a full-tuition scholarship attached. but that might not be your best decision, though, especially if you score higher on a retake. anything in the low-mid 170s would make you competitive for a named scholarship.

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Rigo
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Re: 169, 3.89 ED to UPenn financial qs

Postby Rigo » Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:26 pm

This is by far the most preposterous thread I've seen in awhile.

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ymmv
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Re: 169, 3.89 ED to UPenn financial qs

Postby ymmv » Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:38 pm

Dirigo wrote:This is by far the most preposterous thread I've seen in awhile.


You clearly haven't been here long then.

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Rigo
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Re: 169, 3.89 ED to UPenn financial qs

Postby Rigo » Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:03 pm

ymmv wrote:
Dirigo wrote:This is by far the most preposterous thread I've seen in awhile.

You clearly haven't been here long then.

I'll clarify as "unintentionally preposterous," so as not to include troll threads.

secadc11
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Re: 169, 3.89 ED to UPenn financial qs

Postby secadc11 » Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:08 pm

transferror wrote:
Brut wrote:
Ron Don Volante wrote:do not ed get out of it asap to rd


the only ED worth doing is Northwestern since it has a full-tuition scholarship attached. but that might not be your best decision, though, especially if you score higher on a retake. anything in the low-mid 170s would make you competitive for a named scholarship.


I'm sure you are referring to the OP with the 3.89 GPA. How low do you think ones GPA could be and still have your statement be true?

03152016
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Re: 169, 3.89 ED to UPenn financial qs

Postby 03152016 » Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:17 pm

which part of his statement

secadc11
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Re: 169, 3.89 ED to UPenn financial qs

Postby secadc11 » Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:28 pm

Brut wrote:which part of his statement


"anything in the low-mid 170s would make you competitive for a named scholarship."

03152016
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Re: 169, 3.89 ED to UPenn financial qs

Postby 03152016 » Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:29 pm

what's your gpa

secadc11
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Re: 169, 3.89 ED to UPenn financial qs

Postby secadc11 » Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:38 pm

Brut wrote:what's your gpa


3.37, 3+ years out of undergrad (if that matters)

03152016
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Re: 169, 3.89 ED to UPenn financial qs

Postby 03152016 » Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:41 pm

i see no t14 named schollys in your future

03152016
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Re: 169, 3.89 ED to UPenn financial qs

Postby 03152016 » Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:42 pm

unless it's one of those normal awards they turn into a "named award" to please donors and so you can put it on your resume
i have one of those
it's not a real named scholly tho

secadc11
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Re: 169, 3.89 ED to UPenn financial qs

Postby secadc11 » Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:43 pm

Brut wrote:unless it's one of those normal awards they turn into a "named award" to please donors and so you can put it on your resume
i have one of those
it's not a real named scholly tho


Figured as much. Thanks for the insight.

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Hopefully2012
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Re: 169, 3.89 ED to UPenn financial qs

Postby Hopefully2012 » Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:14 pm

Don't ED if your primary concern is financial aid. I vaguely remember seeing or hearing Penn's Dean of Admission say that ED will have serious negative consequences on scholarships.

That being said, if you're certain you want to go to Penn an ED would likely lock down an acceptance for an applicant with your numbers.

I accepted Penn over other T14s w/ $$$ and haven't regretted it for a moment. A little off-topic, but here's how I justify my position:

If you want biglaw, Penn has a slight advantage but the big difference is Philadelphia's geographic location and the ability to tap into the other grad schools here to leverage that location---the proximity to NY and DC has proved to be extremely valuable. Granted, most people don't seem to take advantage of NY/DC networking, but I'm definitely not the only one who has.

(I've secured a position in biglaw and am now beginning to see how valuable the connections I've made in law school are for career advancement.)

NY and DC are about an hour and a half/two hours away. That's an easy train-ride for a lunch or afternoon meeting. I've developed mentor/mentee relationships with top asset managers ("C"-/principal-level) at billion dollar investment funds in NY and policy makers/consultants/AIII clerks in DC that all began with informal lunches/coffees set up by the different groups at the law school, business school, etc.

Just something more to think about since typical TLS advice for choosing between law schools seems to focus on three things: (1) hard employment data, (2) financial aid, and (3) sometimes fit. Networking opportunities can also be really important for long-term career goals if you're someone who likes meeting new people and will take advantage of the opportunities.

ymmv wrote:"Family and friends in the area" is not a good enough reason to take sticker Penn over $$$ Cornell/NU, if it comes to that, unless you're 100% damn sure you want Philly biglaw at any cost. And even then it's iffy, given how many Philly residents strike out at the Philly biglaw market.

While I agree that friends and family in the area is not a good enough reason, you don't have to be 100% Philly biglaw to take sticker at Penn over another T14 in a different city. I won't be staying in Philly and the vast majority of my class won't either. That's definitely not the only justification for EDing to Penn.
Last edited by Hopefully2012 on Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

03152016
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Re: 169, 3.89 ED to UPenn financial qs

Postby 03152016 » Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:40 pm

1) indefensible b/c debt-financed sticker is $297,020, according to law school transparency

2) ESPECIALLY indefensible since op is already at medians and 48.6% of the class gets aid, with a median grant of $49,569

3) ESPECIALLY ESPECIALLY indefensible b/c lsn data shows that 8% of near-median ED candidates reported receiving aid, compared to 33% of near-median RD candidates

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Hopefully2012
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Re: 169, 3.89 ED to UPenn financial qs

Postby Hopefully2012 » Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:44 pm

I think it's a debatable point and that loss aversion is a big part of the mindset ITT. Anyways, I hope you find my somewhat differing input to be helpful.

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: 169, 3.89 ED to UPenn financial qs

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:55 pm

Brut wrote:1) indefensible b/c debt-financed sticker is $297,020, according to law school transparency

2) ESPECIALLY indefensible since op is already at medians and 48.6% of the class gets aid, with a median grant of $49,569

3) ESPECIALLY ESPECIALLY indefensible b/c lsn data shows that 8% of near-median ED candidates reported receiving aid, compared to 33% of near-median RD candidates


this

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ymmv
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Re: 169, 3.89 ED to UPenn financial qs

Postby ymmv » Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:31 am

OP already said he's not going ED. Are you all finished jerking yourselves off here, or do you need a few more rounds around the circle?




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