Is it worth it to go to a big name school?

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Cal_DevilDog
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Is it worth it to go to a big name school?

Postby Cal_DevilDog » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:13 am

I just want to get people's thoughts on this question. I believe I can get into a top 15 or top 20 school but I just don't know if its worth the money.

I know that I want to practice law in Charlotte, NC after I graduate. I know that I want to work in Corporate/Banking/Securities Law. I don't want to have a huge debt burden after I graduate. So it seems like UNC Law is the perfect place for me.

What would I be missing out on by going to UNC Law or some other comparable school in the Southeast as opposed to a bigger name school?

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baal hadad
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Re: Is it worth it to go to a big name school?

Postby baal hadad » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:25 am

Cal_DevilDog wrote:I just want to get people's thoughts on this question. I believe I can get into a top 15 or top 20 school but I just don't know if its worth the money.

I know that I want to practice law in Charlotte, NC after I graduate. I know that I want to work in Corporate/Banking/Securities Law. I don't want to have a huge debt burden after I graduate. So it seems like UNC Law is the perfect place for me.

What would I be missing out on by going to UNC Law or some other comparable school in the Southeast as opposed to a bigger name school?

W those practice area in mind you basically want to work for a biglaw firm

Biglaw is not a likely outcome from unc

Try to go to Duke or UVA or maybe vanderbilt

Cal_DevilDog
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Re: Is it worth it to go to a big name school?

Postby Cal_DevilDog » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:35 am

baal hadad wrote:W those practice area in mind you basically want to work for a biglaw firm

Biglaw is not a likely outcome from unc

Try to go to Duke or UVA or maybe vanderbilt


Keep in mind that Charlotte is the second largest financial center in the US behind NYC so I think there are plenty of opportunities to work in this area. And wouldn't I have plenty of connections in the local area by going to a regional school vs a big name school? Not arguing with you just want people's thoughts.

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baal hadad
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Re: Is it worth it to go to a big name school?

Postby baal hadad » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:38 am

Cal_DevilDog wrote:
baal hadad wrote:W those practice area in mind you basically want to work for a biglaw firm

Biglaw is not a likely outcome from unc

Try to go to Duke or UVA or maybe vanderbilt


Keep in mind that Charlotte is the second largest financial center in the US behind NYC so I think there are plenty of opportunities to work in this area. And wouldn't I have plenty of connections in the local area by going to a regional school vs a big name school? Not arguing with you just want people's thoughts.

Those practice areas are dominated by biglaw firms

You're probably not gonna have a ton of connections applying for those biglaw jobs at the end of 1L summer when you apply for those

Go look at the stats on LST unc doesn't have good biglaw outcomes

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chuckbass
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Re: Is it worth it to go to a big name school?

Postby chuckbass » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:41 am

Cal_DevilDog wrote:
baal hadad wrote:W those practice area in mind you basically want to work for a biglaw firm

Biglaw is not a likely outcome from unc

Try to go to Duke or UVA or maybe vanderbilt


Keep in mind that Charlotte is the second largest financial center in the US behind NYC so I think there are plenty of opportunities to work in this area. And wouldn't I have plenty of connections in the local area by going to a regional school vs a big name school? Not arguing with you just want people's thoughts.

I mean, Duke is in the "local area" and a big name so I think that should be your goal.

InTheHouse
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Re: Is it worth it to go to a big name school?

Postby InTheHouse » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:46 am

Cal_DevilDog wrote:Keep in mind that Charlotte is the second largest financial center in the US behind NYC


Out of curiosity, what is this based on? I'm sure there's some measure by which this is true, but I wonder if that measure in a meaningful one.

Cal_DevilDog
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Re: Is it worth it to go to a big name school?

Postby Cal_DevilDog » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:51 am

InTheHouse wrote:
Cal_DevilDog wrote:Keep in mind that Charlotte is the second largest financial center in the US behind NYC


Out of curiosity, what is this based on? I'm sure there's some measure by which this is true, but I wonder if that measure in a meaningful one.


From Wikipedia:

Charlotte has become a major U.S. financial center and is now the second largest banking center in the United States (after New York). The nation's second largest financial institution by assets, Bank of America, calls the city home. The city was also the former corporate home of Wachovia until its 2008 acquisition by Wells Fargo in San Francisco CA; Wells Fargo integrated legacy Wachovia, with the two banks fully merged at the end of 2011, which included transitioning all of the Wachovia branches in the Carolinas to Wells Fargo branches by October 2011. Since then, Charlotte became the regional headquarters for East Coast Operations of Wells Fargo, which is headquartered in San Francisco, California. Charlotte also serves as the headquarters for Wells Fargo's capital markets activities including sales and trading, equity research, and investment banking. Bank of America's headquarters, along with other regional banking and financial services companies, are located primarily in the Uptown central business district.

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tortsandtiaras
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Re: Is it worth it to go to a big name school?

Postby tortsandtiaras » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:54 am

Cal_DevilDog wrote:
InTheHouse wrote:
Cal_DevilDog wrote:Keep in mind that Charlotte is the second largest financial center in the US behind NYC


Out of curiosity, what is this based on? I'm sure there's some measure by which this is true, but I wonder if that measure in a meaningful one.


From Wikipedia:

Charlotte has become a major U.S. financial center and is now the second largest banking center in the United States (after New York). The nation's second largest financial institution by assets, Bank of America, calls the city home. The city was also the former corporate home of Wachovia until its 2008 acquisition by Wells Fargo in San Francisco CA; Wells Fargo integrated legacy Wachovia, with the two banks fully merged at the end of 2011, which included transitioning all of the Wachovia branches in the Carolinas to Wells Fargo branches by October 2011. Since then, Charlotte became the regional headquarters for East Coast Operations of Wells Fargo, which is headquartered in San Francisco, California. Charlotte also serves as the headquarters for Wells Fargo's capital markets activities including sales and trading, equity research, and investment banking. Bank of America's headquarters, along with other regional banking and financial services companies, are located primarily in the Uptown central business district.


I personally agree.. shoot for Duke, and then if not, UN Chapel Hill is a great school. If you want to work in NC after graduation then I think its better to stay local and make connections...

Cal_DevilDog
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Re: Is it worth it to go to a big name school?

Postby Cal_DevilDog » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:56 am

Also, according the the UNC Law website, 75th Percentile salaries for private sector workers was $145k, which taking into consideration the cost of living is a lot better than $160k in NY/SF/LA.

Cal_DevilDog
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Re: Is it worth it to go to a big name school?

Postby Cal_DevilDog » Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:01 am

legallyrose wrote:I personally agree.. shoot for Duke, and then if not, UN Chapel Hill is a great school. If you want to work in NC after graduation then I think its better to stay local and make connections...


I'm shooting for Duke. I'm just not sure its really worth the cost. UNC is less than half the cost...

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tortsandtiaras
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Re: Is it worth it to go to a big name school?

Postby tortsandtiaras » Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:04 am

Cal_DevilDog wrote:
legallyrose wrote:I personally agree.. shoot for Duke, and then if not, UN Chapel Hill is a great school. If you want to work in NC after graduation then I think its better to stay local and make connections...


I'm shooting for Duke. I'm just not sure its really worth the cost. UNC is less than half the cost...


Right...UNC has state tuition.

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baal hadad
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Re: Is it worth it to go to a big name school?

Postby baal hadad » Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:19 am

Cal_DevilDog wrote:Also, according the the UNC Law website, 75th Percentile salaries for private sector workers was $145k, which taking into consideration the cost of living is a lot better than $160k in NY/SF/LA.

Don't assume it's not difficult to get a 1) a job, 2) in the private sector, or that 3) that figure is based on representative data

Did the whole law school scam/law school transparency movement entirely pass you by?

Go look at LST. You'll find it's difficult to get the jobs you want from unc

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pancakes3
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Re: Is it worth it to go to a big name school?

Postby pancakes3 » Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:30 am

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... yers/2013/
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... yers/2013/

~20% biglaw placement vs ~50% biglaw placement.
~20% unemployment vs ~5% unemployment.

Looming debt does cause stress but I think it's an even bigger stress pressure to get in the top 33%/25%/10% for biglaw.

suppy183
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Re: Is it worth it to go to a big name school?

Postby suppy183 » Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:41 pm

Cal_DevilDog wrote:
InTheHouse wrote:
Cal_DevilDog wrote:Keep in mind that Charlotte is the second largest financial center in the US behind NYC


Out of curiosity, what is this based on? I'm sure there's some measure by which this is true, but I wonder if that measure in a meaningful one.


From Wikipedia:

Charlotte has become a major U.S. financial center and is now the second largest banking center in the United States (after New York). The nation's second largest financial institution by assets, Bank of America, calls the city home. The city was also the former corporate home of Wachovia until its 2008 acquisition by Wells Fargo in San Francisco CA; Wells Fargo integrated legacy Wachovia, with the two banks fully merged at the end of 2011, which included transitioning all of the Wachovia branches in the Carolinas to Wells Fargo branches by October 2011. Since then, Charlotte became the regional headquarters for East Coast Operations of Wells Fargo, which is headquartered in San Francisco, California. Charlotte also serves as the headquarters for Wells Fargo's capital markets activities including sales and trading, equity research, and investment banking. Bank of America's headquarters, along with other regional banking and financial services companies, are located primarily in the Uptown central business district.


I see you omitted the "[citation needed]" after the "second largest baking center" claim from the original Wikipedia article...

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Is it worth it to go to a big name school?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:43 pm

Why not just go to Elon or North Carolina Central? I mean, you could probably get a full ride to either pretty easily.

Spoiler alert: the school you attend has a huge impact on what kind of work will be available to you.

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encore1101
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Re: Is it worth it to go to a big name school?

Postby encore1101 » Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:50 pm

suppy183 wrote:
I see you omitted the "[citation needed]" after the "second largest baking center" claim from the original Wikipedia article...



citation: some post on TLS forums :wink:

Hutz_and_Goodman
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Re: Is it worth it to go to a big name school?

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:53 pm

There's no way to answer the question of where to attend without debt numbers.

In some cases a T14 is worth it and in others not.

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withoutapaddle
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Re: Is it worth it to go to a big name school?

Postby withoutapaddle » Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:23 pm

I live in Charlotte. The city is ran by the banks 100%.

Charlotte is also the third fastest growing city in the USA, behind Raleigh and Austin. No one wants to live with the miserable weather and people of the north anymore.

JillianLoves
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Re: Is it worth it to go to a big name school?

Postby JillianLoves » Sat Oct 25, 2014 2:09 am

It is a MUST if you want to go into corporate law. Ive worked at a number of high profile firms and rarely have I seen them recruit from even a 2nd tier. if they do, it's usually a local university something special about the application and then it's usually a local school. As an example, you may get a Brooklyn Law or CUNY Law graduate. But it's usually very few. VERY.

If you think I'm kidding ya, check out some of the top ranking law firm sites and check the attorney profiles.

Very true for the first 5 years, you'll be working your ass off and paying off debt, but once that's done it'll be a great life jaja. The goal is to make partner and that's when the real bucks roll in. Chi ching

oorang
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Re: Is it worth it to go to a big name school?

Postby oorang » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:09 am

Charlotte is not nearly the second biggest financial center in the country. The global financial centres index lists US cities in the following order:

NYC
SF
Boston
Chicago

It does not list Charlotte as a major financial center at all.

I know that GDP isn't the same as its prominence as a financial center, but Charlotte's metro area ranks 22nd for GDP in the US. Right below St. Louis and right above Pittsburgh.

Charlotte has Bank of America- which is a really big deal, especially for a mid-sized southern city. And Charlotte certainly has lots of very good financial jobs as a result. But, no, it isn't in the same league as the major hubs.

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banjo
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Re: Is it worth it to go to a big name school?

Postby banjo » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:20 am

Notwithstanding Wikipedia, Charlotte doesn't really have that many entry-level corporate/banking/securities jobs for lawyers. If you search NALP directory for Charlotte (https://www.nalpdirectory.com/index.cfm), you'll see 13 employers. Many of these firms seem to take only a handful of summer associates each year. Cadwalader had three Charlotte summers in 2013 (compared to 25 in NYC). Dechert had two (compared to 10 in Philly and 17 in NYC). Mayer Brown also had two (compared to 25 in Chicago). NALP is not exhaustive, but that should give you an idea.

The easiest way to get these jobs is by going to a T14 and selling your interest in Charlotte. However, if you just want to practice law in Charlotte, and don't HAVE to be in corporate/banking/securities, UNC with $$$ might make sense.

BigZuck
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Re: Is it worth it to go to a big name school?

Postby BigZuck » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:40 am

You're a California Devil Dog (viewtopic.php?f=9&t=237921&p=8110720#p8110720) who is now gunning for big law in Charlotte, North Carolina?

No. Dude. Just no. It's not going to happen. As Banjo pointed out there's probably like 10 SAs in the city and it will be nearly impossible to snag from a school like UNC. It'll be nearly impossible to snag from a school like Duke too unless your ties are super strong.

Just no.

Also that 75th percentile salary score is laughably misleading. Think about it deeper duder. Is it really saying that 25 percent of the class who is working in the public sector is making at least 145K?

BeenDidThat
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Re: Is it worth it to go to a big name school?

Postby BeenDidThat » Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:30 am

OP is somewhere in my burgeoning zone of both funny and sad. The older I get, the more things that are both funny and sad.

Don't go to UNC if you want a good job. Don't go to Charlotte if you want to do high-end deals. You can certainly have a decent career living in North Carolina and working as a lawyer. If you go to Duke or UVA. But it will be an uphill battle even then, because there's simply not a lot of legal work there.

What you want is cities where people write lots of contracts. New York. LA. Chicago. Houston. Because you need lawyers to write and vet (goodish) contracts (though they're usually shit anyway). And you need lawyers to fight about the meaning of contracts. Sure, you can do other kinds of work. But that's the core lawyer shit. And they don't do much of it in North Carolina.

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CicerBRo
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Re: Is it worth it to go to a big name school?

Postby CicerBRo » Sat Oct 25, 2014 11:02 am

Duke will give you way more opportunities than UNC. The extra cost is worth it and will be paid off relatively quickly if you land a BigLaw job. Duke will give you other legal opportunities as well that UNC would not.

Bro, you seem like a Tar Heel fan, but Duke Law > UNC Law. Sometimes, comparisons of law schools do indeed resemble college basketball. And in the same way that Coach K beats Roy, Duke Law beats UNC.

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AT9
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Re: Is it worth it to go to a big name school?

Postby AT9 » Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:55 pm

BeenDidThat wrote:OP is somewhere in my burgeoning zone of both funny and sad. The older I get, the more things that are both funny and sad.

Don't go to UNC if you want a good job. Don't go to Charlotte if you want to do high-end deals. You can certainly have a decent career living in North Carolina and working as a lawyer. If you go to Duke or UVA. But it will be an uphill battle even then, because there's simply not a lot of legal work there.
.


Don't go to UNC if you want a "good job"? That's an awfully bold statement with no facts to back it up. Obviously Duke or UVA is better, but if T-14 isn't within reach for someone, or that student is debt averse, UNC or Wake (only) with major $ isn't necessarily a bad idea for someone who wants to work in Charlotte or NC.

Edit: I know UNC is risky for OP given his/her goals, but a blanket "don't go to UNC" isn't helpful, either.




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