Apply or not decision Forum

[appind]

Looking for TLS wisdom to help make a decision...

I was planning to leave only for hys. I am however in a quandary now about whether to apply to HYS. On the plus side, i may have nothing to lose by applying. If not accepted this year and i can reapply next year. Some have suggested that the act of re-application in itself even when nothing major changes is a minor boost because it shows commitment. On the other side, if i apply this year and re-apply next year my recommendations/resume will not be fresh. Even though I could rewrite a PS next year, recommendations would be exact same and resume will be more or less same. This can truly make an application look very very stale and weak.
So, what is it? Is re-application with the same package (except PS) overall an advantage or disadvantage on balance?

eta: I become eligible for lsat not until late next cycle in oct-dec 2015. An additional consideration is that if I throw in an application to HLS i wouldn't have to take GMAT for my H-MPP/A application this year and can use lsat in its place.

[03152016]

gpa/softs?

[Ti Malice]

If you're rejected this year (which is a near certainty), you won't be admitted next year if the only significant difference between the apps is the PS.

[whitespider]

Some have suggested that the act of re-application in itself even when nothing major changes is a minor boost because it shows commitment.

I wouldn't solicit advice from these people anymore. Law schools aren't going to admit you just because, aw shucks, it seems like you really want it.

[A. Nony Mouse]

One year's "staleness" in your resume/recommendations is not going to make a significant difference in your application. Most people don't have radically different lives one year later. You would need to write a new PS, and ideally you'd have your letter-writers update their letters, but if you have a significantly higher LSAT, that will far outweigh and dangers of "staleness."

However, it's highly unlikely that it's worth you applying this year with a 165. Depends on your GPA and softs, but for HYS there doesn't seem to be much point at all.

[03152016]

you're an international student (it appears esl), a re-re-re-taker with a top score of 165, an older applicant with a career (and i'm assuming a full time job)
i think it is unlikely you will make the improvement necessary to get hys

i understand that sounds harsh
please understand that i'm not saying it to put you down
but it doesn't do you any favors to stroke your ego or indulge pipe dreams

i taught lsat professionally and there are a lot of warning signs here
nothing to do with your potential, specifically
but each of the things i mentioned (international, esl, re-re-re-taker, top score 165, older applicant, has a career and probably a full-time job), in general, correlated with less improvement over the course of their prep
surely there are people in your position who have gotten hys, that's not in dispute
but i'd bet any amount they are in the vast, vast minority

i recommend reevaluating your goals
we can help you do that if you're willing

[Ti Malice]

Some have suggested that the act of re-application in itself even when nothing major changes is a minor boost because it shows commitment.

I wouldn't solicit advice from these people anymore. Law schools aren't going to admit you just because, aw shucks, it seems like you really want it.

This also. If anything, there will be a bias in the opposite direction. "What's here that makes us want to decide differently from last year?"

[MistakenGenius]

Post removed.

[A. Nony Mouse]

To be honest, it sounds like you're trying to convince yourself that it's a good idea to apply this year, and it isn't. I hadn't realized you're international, which means for all intents and purposes no GPA, so your LSAT is basically what your application will be riding on. Law school applications are overwhelmingly driven by LSAT/GPA. Ironically, the more holistic schools are YS (and sort of H), BUT: they are holistic within the group of amazing people with top statistics. They can afford to pick and choose for interesting softs because everyone will have tip-top grades, LSAT scores, and/or (usually and) both. Some schools will be willing to take a chance on a candidate with interesting softs and a weaker GPA OR LSAT, but you need to bring something to the table that will improve the school's statistics. Your LSAT doesn't do that.

FWIW, I was also many years removed from undergrad, with a graduate degree and lots of good softs, and I was accepted basically everywhere my LSAT & GPA predicted I would be accepted, and at none of the places where they were not competitive.

[appind]

Some have suggested that the act of re-application in itself even when nothing major changes is a minor boost because it shows commitment.

I wouldn't solicit advice from these people anymore. Law schools aren't going to admit you just because, aw shucks, it seems like you really want it.

This came from tls regular / H student i guess. I think it's the H thread in the ask the student forum a few pages back from where the thread currently is.

I'm pretty set on law/policy degree now however much crazy it may sound. My scores don't look good obviously for t14 and I sure did blow it on game days despite much higher PT scores fwiw. So I am basically weighing the cons of throwing the H app in this cycle vs the risk of waiting one year without applying and still getting a reject.

I don't have more than a very low chance but it's probably better than waiting one year wanting to take lsat. The disadvantage is that reapplying with the same package except for +X score may be worse than 1st time application with the fresh package and the +X score. I am actually surprised that some posts above suggest that there isn't not much to lose by applying, though I would have liked it that way. If a reapplication's staleness seriously doesn't concern the committee, then i am not sure why i shouldn't at least put the application in however small my chances may be. I am not sure whether it's true or not, but if it's really true, unless I am missing something what do I have to lose except for putting in time and effort to put the package together.

[Paul Campos]

You seem to be under the impression that a committee of thoughtful people will spend a lot of time going over the nuances of your application, thus rendering it potentially "stale" if the committee deals with substantially the same application next year. Your application is going to be looked at for literally 30 seconds by one person before you're rejected, because your numbers are below the cutoff for any more consideration than that (I'm assuming none of the major buildings on campus are named after one of your close relatives).

[appind]

Thanks for candid responses.

Yeah I have no connections that you are referring to. There are some non-urms admitted at my lsat in the last cycle that didn't seem to have any exceptional softs just unique applications, so I am not sure if there is any 30 second cutoff.

Found the discussed link to the page in the ask the student thread. http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... start=4700. It's around page 190.

Quoted a portion here..

Being a reapplicant doesn't hurt your chances. My impression is that it's basically the same as applying initially, with perhaps a very, very slight boost because it shows that you're serious about wanting to attend. If you have a much higher LSAT score the second time, they'll give you serious consideration.

If nothing changes next year then it'd be understandable if they don't decide any differently, but I am mainly looking at the harm that this year's application can potentially cause. These are the potential issues i could see
- application fees/personal time
- checking off the "yes i applied previously to your school/program" box in any future applications to the school which can box the goals/motivations/previous application documents in future applications to the school
- convincing recommenders that i am not a total loss despite reject

The first one is a non-issue and I find last two the hardest and most intricate issues personally.

This also. If anything, there will be a bias in the opposite direction. "What's here that makes us want to decide differently from last year?"

If something changes, then would there be a bias?