C&F Advice Forum

[DaRascal]

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[wingding]

Was the charge dismissed without prejudice?

[DaRascal]

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[wingding]

"Have you ever been...charged with a criminal offense that was later dismissed as a result of a plea bargain or alternative sentencing arrangement, or are such criminal charges pending or expected to be brought against you?"

1: "Have you ever been...charged with a criminal offense
2: that was later dismissed as a result of a plea bargain or alternative sentencing arrangement
3: or are such criminal charges pending or expected to be brought against you?"

The requirement is 1 + (2 or 3)

Analysis of prong 1:
"Have you ever been...charged with a criminal offense - yes, yes you have.

Analysis of prong 2:
that was later dismissed as a result of a plea bargain or alternative sentencing arrangement
again, 3 parts. (A) that was later dismissed (B) as a result of a plea bargain or (C) alternative sentencing arrangement. The requirement is A + (B or C)
A) that was later dismissed Yep, it was dismissed
B) as a result of a plea bargain Nope, no plea bargain
C) or alternative sentencing arrangement Nope, no alternative sentencing arrangement
A is true, B is false, and C is false.
A being true is not enough, because A must be true and either B or C must be true, but both B and C are false, therefore, prong 2 fails.

analysis of prong 3:
or are such criminal charges pending or expected to be brought against you?"
Nope, not true (unless you're not telling us something -and let's be honest, you're a weird one, who knows what shit you've been up to)

1 is true, 2 is false, and 3 is false.
1 being true is not enough, because 1 must be true and either 2 or 3 must be true, but both 2 and 3 are false, therefore, no need to disclose


disclaimer: I've treated this as an LSAT question, and am not providing legal advice of any kind. I take no responsibility for being completely wrong. Like you are. Always.

[03152016]

having your thread locked generally isn't an invitation to start a new one to continue the discussion

[wingding]

having your thread locked generally isn't an invitation to start a new one to continue the discussion

Obviously you missed the part where he can't take no for an answer

[DaRascal]

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[wingding]

Thanks, wingding, I appreciate your response and I am convinced you are right.

Keep in mind that it's not my ass that's in trouble if I'm wrong. Maybe you should get professional help?

[DaRascal]

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[wingding]

Maybe you should get professional help?

A couple of pieces of paper hanging on a wall isn't going to make someone more correct than you. The 4th post in this thread is flawless and gives me a definitive answer to my question. Thank you, my friend.

I was thinking more along the line of a psychologist or a sociologist, but, whatever

[theotherone823]

Do you HAVE to disclose this. Maybe, maybe not. I'm not completely convinced that you don't have to.

SHOULD you disclose even if you don't have to? YES! If only out of an abundance of caution, you ABSOLUTELY should disclose every little thing that could potentially be a C&F issue. If you have to ask the question "Should I disclose?", the answer is almost always Yes!.

When you apply for the bar and the examiners find this--and they will find it--you are going to be asked why you didn't disclose and you are going to have a lot of problems. You don't have a good reason for not disclosing.

I have read some of your posts and I know that you are really just looking for someone to validate your opinion that you aren't at fault and that you don't have to disclose. But if you go that route you are making a huge, potentially life ruining, mistake. Do you really want to go $50k+ in debt and not be able to get a job that will let you pay it back because you didn't get admitted to the bar just because you refuse to take responsibility for your actions?

[DaRascal]

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[Learn_Live_Hope]

"Have you ever been...charged with a criminal offense that was later dismissed as a result of a plea bargain or alternative sentencing arrangement, or are such criminal charges pending or expected to be brought against you?"

1: "Have you ever been...charged with a criminal offense
2: that was later dismissed as a result of a plea bargain or alternative sentencing arrangement
3: or are such criminal charges pending or expected to be brought against you?"

The requirement is 1 + (2 or 3)

Analysis of prong 1:
"Have you ever been...charged with a criminal offense - yes, yes you have.

Analysis of prong 2:
that was later dismissed as a result of a plea bargain or alternative sentencing arrangement
again, 3 parts. (A) that was later dismissed (B) as a result of a plea bargain or (C) alternative sentencing arrangement. The requirement is A + (B or C)
A) that was later dismissed Yep, it was dismissed
B) as a result of a plea bargain Nope, no plea bargain
C) or alternative sentencing arrangement Nope, no alternative sentencing arrangement
A is true, B is false, and C is false.
A being true is not enough, because A must be true and either B or C must be true, but both B and C are false, therefore, prong 2 fails.

analysis of prong 3:
or are such criminal charges pending or expected to be brought against you?"
Nope, not true (unless you're not telling us something -and let's be honest, you're a weird one, who knows what shit you've been up to)

1 is true, 2 is false, and 3 is false.
1 being true is not enough, because 1 must be true and either 2 or 3 must be true, but both 2 and 3 are false, therefore, no need to disclose


disclaimer: I've treated this as an LSAT question, and am not providing legal advice of any kind. I take no responsibility for being completely wrong. Like you are. Always.

Hahahaha

[wingding]

When you apply for the bar and the examiners find this--and they will find it--you are going to be asked why you didn't disclose and you are going to have a lot of problems. You don't have a good reason for not disclosing.

I do have a good reason for not disclosing. I want to maximize my chances of admission at that school (why do people retake the LSAT and try to get the best grades they possibly can in college?), it is unfair that a mistake that would not affect my ability to function as a lawyer would, if disclosed, adversely affect those chances and how I'm perceived in the eyes of future employers who find out about that mistake through a background check, and the language of the application form does not require me to disclose that mistake.

How about a mistake indicative that you should not be a lawyer?

[theotherone823]

When you apply for the bar and the examiners find this--and they will find it--you are going to be asked why you didn't disclose and you are going to have a lot of problems. You don't have a good reason for not disclosing.

I do have a good reason for not disclosing. I want to maximize my chances of admission at that school (why do people retake the LSAT and try to get the best grades they possibly can in college?), it is unfair that a mistake that would not affect my ability to function as a lawyer would, if disclosed, adversely affect those chances and how I'm perceived in the eyes of future employers who find out about that mistake through a background check, and the language of the application form does not require me to disclose that mistake.

That's not a good reason. In fact, if that's the reason you give the bar examiners, I can damn near guarantee that you will never get admitted to the bar. What you are saying is no different from an attorney saying: "Well I really wanted to increase my chances of winning the trial, so I withheld evidence that could possible have helped the other side." That is an ethics violation and it is the exact thing that the bar examiners are trying to avoid. The whole point of C&F screening is to make sure that you are going to be an ethical lawyer. Any past record of unethical behavior, or even just perceived unethical behavior, is going to be a serious stain on your bar application. The best way to deal with it is to be upfront and honest about it and take responsibility for your actions. Stop trying to waive a magic wand and make your mistakes everyone elses fault or pretend that your mistakes aren't relevant. They are. Man up. It might not be fair, but the mature and responsible thing to do is to take responsibility for your mistakes, even if it might hurt you. If you aren't mature enough to accept that, then you aren't mature enough to go to law school.

[DaRascal]

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[sublime]

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[DaRascal]

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[sunsheyen]

Applying to Mercer?

[DaRascal]

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[DaRascal]

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[SnakySalmon]

There's no point to EDing to a school other than Northwestern, since it'll cost you any scholarships, and you don't seem like you'd get the Northwestern ED scholarship, so I don't see the point.

[DaRascal]

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[sublime]

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[DaRascal]

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