Academic Dishonesty (any input appreciated) Forum

[mylifeblows2014]

Hey guys - it's probably better to start from the top so here goes, bear with me hah.

A few weeks back I was taking a final for an engineering class, with some notes stored onto my calculator. I was informed by a group of students in the class that this was allowed since he the professor allowed calculators on the exam.

Believe it or not, I walked into the class that day without a guilty conscience - I sat right in frontmost row in front of the grader and professor and waited to take the exam. About halfway through the exam, I beckoned the grader to come over so I could ask him to go to the restroom. I left my calculator in clear sight with the notes on the screen for when he came over, didn't even remotely try to hide it - and asked to go pee. I'm pretty sure it was right then that he noticed the notes. When I came back, he notified me that we weren't allowed notes on the exam. I didn't believe him, so he pointed to the front of the exam where it said no notes, but calculators were allowed. well fark. Clear my calc, and I go on.

So anyways, the grader begins to notice that I'm not the only one whose doing this, and he kinda starts walking around the room. After a few minutes, the grader returns to the front of the room and makes a public announcement clarifying that notes on the calculator were in fact not allowed, and that anyone with them should immediately put them away because they weren't allowed. Basically, letting everyone else off (at least in my eyes - a quarter of the class was gone at this point anyways).

The exam finishes, and I asked the grader what happens now. Cliffs: he took a picture of my calc while I was in the restroom, and while I wasn't the only of apparently doing it (he saw "evidence" of it happening elsewhere in the class), I would be the only one reported (to the TA, since he reports to the TA - it's the TA's choice from there). He was really lighthearted about the entire thing, saying it wasn't a big deal.. yeah, lol.

Hit up the TA, and she has no idea what's going on, so the next morning I just straight up tell the prof that I honestly didn't know. He said to send him an email of what happened, and I did. I'm not denying what I did, I just had no idea it was wrong or was considered cheating.. I honestly would've at least tried to hide it otherwise, believe me.

So now this has escalated to academic dishonesty sorta stuff. The professor can choose either to let the Dean of Students take care of it, or the professor and I can "work something out". Right now, the prof wants to "work something out". Assuming I take this and sign whatever forms they give me, I basically plead guilty of academic dishonesty - but apparently this doesn't go on my transcript, but remains in UT's internal system for the next 7 years. However, if any external school requests it and I sign saying I'm allowing them to see it, then they see it. However, whatever the prof chooses to negotiate, it will almost certainly tank my GPA (it's like a 3.7 right now, I'm an A/B engineering student. Defo not the smartest as you can kinda tell by now, not much street sense lol) since it's either be like a F on the final (D in the class), or fail the class, etc...

Yeah. I'm in a weird kinda predicament. I've been honest (almost blatantly honest lol), but I'm about to get shafted pretty bad since I had plans of going to law/grad school. I know some people here wouldn't even bother revealing academic dishonesty if it weren't on their transcript (if I took the prof's offer, basically like a plea bargain), but that's not how I roll lol. If they ask for it, I'll tell them irregardless, it is what it is and I'm not gonna hide it. Because of this, my parents are saying not to sign anything and I should if anything get a lawyer and take my chances with the Dean of Students/hearing since I'm not gonna hide anything from adcoms... it's not exactly clear cut, ya know? I did something I didn't know was wrong, but the way it was handled afterwards (by the grader) was messy as well..

Input?

[SFrost]

Why do you admit to stuff? When has this ever helped anybody?

In your exact situation I would have gotten away 100% clean. Work on your social skills (which includes manipulations, misrepresentation, and earning people's empathy).

[NYSprague]

Listen to your parents. You would have to disclose this anyway. What advantage are you getting by not having a hearing?

Why did you think notes were allowed when the exam said "no notes?"
Did the syllabus say no notes?

[HRomanus]

A lawyer isn't going to do squat for you in a college conduct process, so don't waste your parents' money.

Here's a question from the Emory app, which is similar to most law school applications:

Have you ever been subject to any academic disciplinary action while in college, or any educational setting since high school,
regardless of the outcome of the action. This includes academic probation, warning, reprimand, suspension, expulsion or dismissal,
or any type of academic discipline.

You'll need to disclose this situation if you confess to academic dishonesty. That won't necessarily sink your application, but obviously it's best to not have this on there. Your best bet is to work with the professor and keep it off-the-record as much as possible, even if it means withdrawing from or failing the course. In college, I worked with the conduct process to privately mentor and advise students. In my experience, the best solutions in these situations came when the student didn't resist. Just confess, repent, and put yourself at the professor's mercy - professors love that.

[HRomanus]

Listen to your parents. You would have to disclose this anyway. What advantage are you getting by not having a hearing?

Why did you think notes were allowed when the exam said "no notes?"
Did the syllabus say no notes?

LOL no. This would apply to something like a weed or alcohol charge, but academic dishonesty will screw you harder the more you progress up the conduct process.

[mylifeblows2014]

Why do you admit to stuff? When has this ever helped anybody?

In your exact situation I would have gotten away 100% clean. Work on your social skills (which includes manipulations, misrepresentation, and earning people's empathy).

Lol sorry bro, that's not how I do. I'll probably suffer alot more than others 'cause of that, but yolo.

Listen to your parents. You would have to disclose this anyway. What advantage are you getting by not having a hearing?

Why did you think notes were allowed when the exam said "no notes?"
Did the syllabus say no notes?

I believe that advantage is that it wouldn't blatantly state on transcript that you were academically dishonest.. taking the plea would basically keep it on file at my school, but not have it like ON on your transcript, unless another school asks for my discipline record or something.

The prof never mentioned the notes thing in class, and I didn't read the first page of the exam. He passes out the exam everytime saying we could start whenever we got it so I never looked it over really. He always emphasized bringing a calculator and I didn't look into it any further. Stupid, I know. I just believed what my classmates told me. I don't think they were trying to screw me over either, they didn't know, or they knew and had bad intentions.

The prof actually did say that Friday (day after the exam when I told him) that "it says on the syllabus no notes"... but I checked the syllabus right after and it doesn't mention that. The test does, though.

[homestyle28]

Why do you admit to stuff? When has this ever helped anybody?

In your exact situation I would have gotten away 100% clean. Work on your social skills (which includes manipulations, misrepresentation, and earning people's empathy).

On behalf of everyone: suck a bag of dicks. Seriously.

[mylifeblows2014]

A lawyer isn't going to do squat for you in a college conduct process, so don't waste your parents' money.

Here's a question from the Emory app, which is similar to most law school applications:

Have you ever been subject to any academic disciplinary action while in college, or any educational setting since high school,
regardless of the outcome of the action. This includes academic probation, warning, reprimand, suspension, expulsion or dismissal,
or any type of academic discipline.

You'll need to disclose this situation if you confess to academic dishonesty. That won't necessarily sink your application, but obviously it's best to not have this on there. Your best bet is to work with the professor and keep it off-the-record as much as possible, even if it means withdrawing from or failing the course. In college, I worked with the conduct process to privately mentor and advise students. In my experience, the best solutions in these situations came when the student didn't resist. Just confess, repent, and put yourself at the professor's mercy - professors love that.

But technically, wouldn't that still count as academic disciplinary action? Like just accepting a failing grade or trying to keep it off-the-record, it's still a form of academic discipline... an F is still a really obvious sign crap happened, especially if the rest of your transcript are all A's and B's..

[redsox]

If the exam said, "No notes, but you can bring scratch paper," would you think it was okay to bring notes as long as they were on paper? If the exam said, "No notes, but you can bring a water bottle," would you think it was okay to bring a water bottle with notes written inside the label?

You blatantly cheated and got caught. Tough shit.

[aboutmydaylight]

How could you possibly interpret "no notes" and "calculators are ok" to be "no notes unless they are on your calculator"?

[NYSprague]

I admit I don't know about academic dishonesty. It sounds like you don't have much chance of winning. I thought getting a hearing was always better in general. Maybe find out exactly what the options are? If your only defense is that other kids aren't being punished, I'm just not sure how persuasive that is going to be.

I find it unlikely that people will find your story credible because the exam said no notes, though that is just based on what you posted here.

So maybe taking the deal is best if you don't have a shot at winning at a hearing.

[HRomanus]

A couple of ways it can stay away from "academic dishonesty" or "academic discipline": voluntarily withdrawing from the course (counting as a failure this late in the semester) or failing the assignment

One of my volunteers is a professor and I asked him what he thought about this. He agreed the more you advance this the worse it gets. You should confess, repent, and fall on the prof's mercy.

[Pneumonia]

Yeah def don't try to fight this because that will just give the administration an incentive to screw you as hard as they can. Your story seems reasonable and it's def worth not having this incident on your official transcript because given how far it has gone, it's going to be something you need to disclose no matter what.

[Nebby]

The prof never mentioned the notes thing in class, and I didn't read the first page of the exam. He passes out the exam everytime saying we could start whenever we got it so I never looked it over really.

[HRomanus]

The prof never mentioned the notes thing in class, and I didn't read the first page of the exam. He passes out the exam everytime saying we could start whenever we got it so I never looked it over really.

TBH: Not sure whether the OP is just a moron or if he's a really bad liar. Considering he left the notes up on his calc, he could definitely be both.

[mylifeblows2014]

Honestly, probably both lol.

Thanks for all the input guys. Truth be told, I had a lapse in judgement and for some reason or another, either blatantly cheated or somehow managed to convince myself blatantly cheating was fine from other people's actions. Either way, I screwed myself pretty hard, and I take full responsibility for the crap I put myself in. I'm starting to learn all my judgements matter, and sadly this is a situation I myself put myself into and only I myself can pull out of. It was a overdue wakeup call.

I guess the question now remains, is there even a possibility I could ever get into law school after a couple years in the industry?

I turned 19 yesterday, and after this semester (assuming I fail this course), I'll have only two semester left (5 courses/semester assuming I pass them all) before I graduate. Just trying to sketch out the bleak future I have ahead of me, hah.


Thanks for all the input guys, genuinely.

[HRomanus]

I don't know how seriously law schools view UG cheating and I couldn't find an answer from a quick forum search. A huge problem is that your story will always sound absurd, and I'm not sure if there's a good way to write this in an addendum. There's a huge difference between "I copied a sentence from my notes without knowing it was actually verbatim from the book" (aka pulling a Stephen Ambrose) and "The professor said we could use calculators and I thought that meant I could have notes in them." Like I said, they'll think you're either a moron or a scheming weasel.

For that reason, it's so important to put yourself in a position where you needn't disclose this. If you don't enter the conduct process, you are arguably safe from having to disclose.

[SPerez]

If they ask for it, I'll tell them irregardless, it is what it is and I'm not gonna hide it. Because of this, my parents are saying not to sign anything and I should if anything get a lawyer and take my chances with the Dean of Students/hearing since I'm not gonna hide anything from adcoms... it's not exactly clear cut, ya know? I did something I didn't know was wrong, but the way it was handled afterwards (by the grader) was messy as well..

It is, actually, very clear cut. You cheated. The only scenario where you aren't required to report this is if they completely forget everything, let you stay in the class and keep your grade. That ain't going to happen. ANYthing else - F for the class, some kind of probation, writing an essay, paying a fine, etc. - means you will have to report it. Whether or not it's listed on your transcript is irrelevant. In 8 years, after UT destroys the records, you still have to report it.

You're right to be worried. As messed up as it sounds, things like MIPs and even DUIs are often not scrutinized as closely as offenses involving dishonesty. The key is to be forthright and accepting of your actions and consequences. (Saying things like the way it was handled was messy don't help. Makes it sound like you're trying to shift the blame since nothing about how it was handled changes the fact that you cheated.) There's really no way I can see that you can write the explanation that doesn't reflect poorly on your judgment and decision making abilities. As others have said, no professor or adcom who reads it will be able to understand how you thought notes on your calculator were okay in a closed book exam. It is what it is, and you'll just have to make sure the rest of your application is on point. I would also recommend you choose several faculty members (the professor from this class, if possible) to write your LORs and ask them to specifically mention that they know this happened but that they nevertheless trust you, think it was a one-off mistake, etc.

Assuming you do well on your LSAT, you will be in law school somewhere, but your cycle just might be a little less predictable.

Dean Perez

[SemperLegal]

The Dean, obviously knows a bit more than me on the LS side of things.

However, I would stress talking to the Professor very candidly about the situation without trying to make (too many) excuses. Tell him that you honestly, but stupidly, thought that you were following the rules, that you enjoyed the class, regret making the mistake, and want to make amends. That you want to go to LS and you are afraid that a formal academic sanction will make that impossible for years to come. He already said he was willing to work something out, see how amendable he will be. Perhaps he will take pity on you, deduct some points for not following the rules on page one (but not see it as academic dishonesty, but rather failure to follow directions), or if he will allow anyone to take an alternative examination or paper in lieu of an incomplete for failure to follow directions.

Be honest, but if your professor doesn't view it as cheating and cuts you slack, I don't think you should go down with the ship.

If you do end up with a dishonesty "charge", I would take some time off. You are much better off working a few years, gaining some engineering know-how, building up a bank roll, waiting for the legal market to get better (as it does, slowly, every year), and increasing your attractiveness to employers then ending up at an institution below your numbers who is hungry enough for your numbers to look past the black mark.

Get a few years between you and this incident so it can be chalked up as a youthful indiscretion and its much, much less important.

[jdmonkey]

I would ask for an academic integrity hearing. I bet your school uses the word knowingly before it says uses unauthorized notes for purposes of exams. The fact that you left the calc turned on when you used the bathroom (when the proctor took the pic) is pretty compelling evidence you didn't knowingly violate the code. In crim law you will learn that almost any crime that has severe consequences requires the act (using notes) plus a guilty mind. Since cheating is dealt with so seriously at college and they model their codes of conduct after state penal codes, I would hire the lawyer and argue that it wasn't knowingly. The Emory question is an aberration. Many top law schools only ask if you were found guilty not merely accused correctly or wrongly.

[09042014]

Honestly this is doing you a favor. Fuck lawschool, be an engineer.

[mushybrain]

I would ask for an academic integrity hearing. I bet your school uses the word knowingly before it says uses unauthorized notes for purposes of exams. The fact that you left the calc turned on when you used the bathroom (when the proctor took the pic) is pretty compelling evidence you didn't knowingly violate the code. In crim law you will learn that almost any crime that has severe consequences requires the act (using notes) plus a guilty mind. Since cheating is dealt with so seriously at college and they model their codes of conduct after state penal codes, I would hire the lawyer and argue that it wasn't knowingly. The Emory question is an aberration. Many top law schools only ask if you were found guilty not merely accused correctly or wrongly.

Oh my god.

[Pneumonia]

I would ask for an academic integrity hearing. I bet your school uses the word knowingly before it says uses unauthorized notes for purposes of exams. The fact that you left the calc turned on when you used the bathroom (when the proctor took the pic) is pretty compelling evidence you didn't knowingly violate the code. In crim law you will learn that almost any crime that has severe consequences requires the act (using notes) plus a guilty mind. Since cheating is dealt with so seriously at college and they model their codes of conduct after state penal codes, I would hire the lawyer and argue that it wasn't knowingly. The Emory question is an aberration. Many top law schools only ask if you were found guilty not merely accused correctly or wrongly.

Oh my god.

For real

[jdmonkey]

I would ask for an academic integrity hearing. I bet your school uses the word knowingly before it says uses unauthorized notes for purposes of exams. The fact that you left the calc turned on when you used the bathroom (when the proctor took the pic) is pretty compelling evidence you didn't knowingly violate the code. In crim law you will learn that almost any crime that has severe consequences requires the act (using notes) plus a guilty mind. Since cheating is dealt with so seriously at college and they model their codes of conduct after state penal codes, I would hire the lawyer and argue that it wasn't knowingly. The Emory question is an aberration. Many top law schools only ask if you were found guilty not merely accused correctly or wrongly.

Oh my god.

For real

Yeah I know of at least 2 students from my undergrad that got acquitted at these hearings. They hired lawyers and just shut the hell up. You could go pro se, but with the stakes of being found in violation of academic integrity, which for law school is probably worse than beating up a cop, the stakes are high enough to hire an advocate. As for the OMGs, Lest you two forget mens rea!

[09042014]

(1L about to get a B- in crim)