Lewis & Clark Law vs. Oregon Law Forum

[clemenza]

I am sorry that this is yet again another post to get advice between these schools, but I thought it would be helpful since others are a few years old.

As of now, I am deciding between these two schools (also waitlisted at CU, UMN and Denver).

Important notes:
-going for environmental law
-avid outdoorsman
-moving from the East Coast
-leaning towards Public Interest Law, not ruling out corporate as a SA or post-grad if grades/ranking permit
-would like to get a joint Masters degree
-aiming to live out there permanently, declaring residency when I arrive.

Lewis & Clark Pros/Cons:
Pros:
-offered me $10,000 per year with good academic standing stipulation
-I love Portland as a city and the close distance to Mt. Hood
-better faculty/student ratio
-good resources
-most of the legal jobs are in Portland
-good clinical/center programs
-#1 environmental law rank

Cons:
-fairly expensive
-cost of living in the area is higher than Eugene
-no option of joint masters degree
-no in-state tuition

Oregon Pros/Cons:
Pros:
-offered me $10,000 per year, plus an addition $10,000 for 1L year
-Eugene is a great town, college atmosphere--something I am used to and don't mind
-#5 environmental law program
-Option for a joint Masters in Environmental Studies degree
-much lower cost of living
-fewer students in 1L than LC
-eligible for in-state tuition for 2L, 3L

Cons:
-higher faculty/student ratio
-fewer clinics
-2 hours from Portland

Please, do not mention overall cost or compare the cost to "quality of education". I know my financials and am comfortable with paying for the remainder of tuition out of pocket. I am simply looking for advice on the schools, which is better, employment, quality of life, etc. Any input from former/current students would be great. Also, I've done my fair share of research on the employment market/statistics from each school and know what I am getting into, but and thoughts are still welcomed.

Thanks!

[paayter]

this gon be good

hate to be THAT guy

http://www.lstscorereports.com/state/OR/

Wilamette seems to have a better employment score than both "flagships". You could probably get a lot more wilamette as they arent ranked? I dont know

Dont even put specialty rankings, those are a farse, and you arent even trying to do environmental law. I'd say Lewis and Clark...its closer to Portland.

[cron1834]

Willamette is a true toilet. Shouldn't be on the radar.

L&C and UO are both good for environmental law ... but you're probably going to be unemployed if you come from either gunning for envirolaw. It's just not a thing where people get jobs. Quality of life is amazing in both regions, but if you actually want a real job, you need to retake for the T14.

I've lived for years in both cities, happy to answer questions about that. But, don't go.

[paayter]

Willamette is a true toilet. Shouldn't be on the radar.

L&C and UO are both good for environmental law ... but you're probably going to be unemployed if you come from either gunning for envirolaw. It's just not a thing where people get jobs. Quality of life is amazing in both regions, but if you actually want a real job, you need to retake for the T14.

I've lived for years in both cities, happy to answer questions about that. But, don't go.

surprised this thread hasn't got more shat on. wilamette seems to have the best employment score out of the two "ranked" schools.

[cron1834]

Willamette was at 45% last year and 35% the year before that. It's a shit show. All three schools suck for jobs, but Willamette is a nonstarter.

[dsamuels]

Lewis and Clark. I've been to both schools and I am from the area. Eugene is in the middle of no where. If Lewis and Clark had d1 sports teams I'm not sure you would even be pondering this question. In addition I feel that Portland is close for your outdoor adventures but still gives you the convenience of being close to a city.

[McAvoy]

- Wants to do environmental law for the good guys
- Moving across country for schools w/ less than 50% employment scores
- Paying sticker
- Dual Degree



You really have to retake at get more money next cycle, OP. There is no way you can possibly come close to justifying either of these options.

[hephaestus]

Please, do not mention overall cost or compare the cost to "quality of education". I know my financials and am comfortable with paying for the remainder of tuition out of pocket. I am simply looking for advice on the schools, which is better, employment, quality of life, etc. Any input from former/current students would be great. Also, I've done my fair share of research on the employment market/statistics from each school and know what I am getting into, but and thoughts are still welcomed.

Does this mean you will not be taking out loans?
Also, these are both too expensive for your goals, and both leave you with a coinflip's chance of becoming a lawyer. Why would you pay six figures for a 50% chance of never being a lawyer?

[rad lulz]

Just FYI nearly all of the jobs in environmental law are on behalf of big corporations trying to dump waste in the ocean n stuff

This is because the environment doesn't have $ to hire lawyers

[dmitriygolos]

Also, these are both too expensive for your goals, and both leave you with a coinflip's chance of becoming a lawyer. Why would you pay six figures for a 50% chance of never being a lawyer?

NEVER being a lawyer?

[cron1834]

Also, these are both too expensive for your goals, and both leave you with a coinflip's chance of becoming a lawyer. Why would you pay six figures for a 50% chance of never being a lawyer?

NEVER being a lawyer?

Are you okay with being in debt up to your ears for a couple of years, and clerking for some shit circuit court at $15/hr while you bust your ass for ANY legal job? If so, then point taken. If not, then the original point stands.

I'm a 0L, but I'm also nontrad, and I'm close with a dozen people that have graduated from the schools in question here. They're simply NOT a good move unless free.

[Nova]

Important notes:
-going for environmental law not realistic
-avid outdoorsman
-moving from the East Coast bad idea. locals are gonna have a big advantage over you.
-leaning towards Public Interest Law, not ruling out corporate as a SA or post-grad if grades/ranking permit
-would like to get a joint Masters degree prob a bad idea
-aiming to live out there permanently, declaring residency when I arrive.

Lewis & Clark Pros/Cons:
Pros:
-offered me $10,000 per year with good academic standing stipulation you would be way over paying
-I love Portland as a city and the close distance to Mt. Hood
-better faculty/student ratio shouldn't be a factor
-good resources whatever that means
-most of the legal jobs are in Portland there aren't many of them
-good clinical/center programs shouldn't be a factor
-#1 environmental law rank shouldn't be a factor

Cons:
-fairly expensive you would be way over paying
-cost of living in the area is higher than Eugene
-no option of joint masters degree prob a good thing
-no in-state tuition you would be way over paying

Oregon Pros/Cons:
Pros:
-offered me $10,000 per year, plus an addition $10,000 for 1L year you would be way over paying
-Eugene is a great town, college atmosphere--something I am used to and don't mind
-#5 environmental law program this should not be a factor
-Option for a joint Masters in Environmental Studies degree not worth it
-much lower cost of living
-fewer students in 1L than LC that doesn't matter
-eligible for in-state tuition for 2L, 3L still overpaying

Cons:
-higher faculty/student ratio shouldn't be a factor
-fewer clinics shouldn't be a factor
-2 hours from Portland

Please, do not mention overall cost or compare the cost to "quality of education".???? you bring up cost over and over again???? why are COL & tuition mentioned in your pros/cons if you don't want to talk about cost??? Quality of education shouldn't be a factor, since its similar everywhere. I know my financials and am comfortable with paying for the remainder of tuition out of pocket. I am simply looking for advice on the schools, which is better, employment, quality of life, etc. Any input from former/current students would be great. Also, I've done my fair share of research on the employment market/statistics from each school and know what I am getting into, but and thoughts are still welcomed.

Thanks!

[Pragmatic Gun]

Are clinics entirely useless? They seem like a way to acquire practical skills in practices such as litigation before graduating.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Clincs are great, they're a great way to get practical skills. But all law schools offer clinics and you don't really need to do specialized ones to benefit from them; they're not a good reason to choose one school over another unless everything else is equal, and they're not a reason to pay more for a school.

[Pragmatic Gun]

So it's like shopping for a car, but picking one over the others because it has four tires that happen to have killer rims?

[Jchance]

red comments

[clemenza]

Thanks for all of your comments (good and bad) so far. Was accepted at Denver Law this morning. Adding it into the mix. Thoughts?

[rad lulz]

.

[clemenza]

Thanks for all of your comments (good and bad) so far. Was accepted at Denver Law this morning. Adding it into the mix. Thoughts?

At sticker? That'd be the height of idiocy.

I am going to negotiate. Not paying sticker. No scholarship offer and I won't be going.

[WaltGrace83]

Thanks for all of your comments (good and bad) so far. Was accepted at Denver Law this morning. Adding it into the mix. Thoughts?

At sticker? That'd be the height of idiocy.

I am going to negotiate. Not paying sticker. No scholarship offer and I won't be going.

If you have substantially less than a full ride and have no ties to Denver then you would still be overpaying.

[WokeUpInACar]

On the bright side, if you ignore everyone's advice you can become the definitive law school cautionary tale! You've ticked so many horrible decision boxes here that it's actually quite impressive.

[shifty_eyed]

Lewis & Clark for SURE. They are the only school in the country to have an animal law program. I used to think animal law was all about campaigning to be able to take your companion monkey into the grocery store with you because of your social anxiety, but it's so much more!

Animal Law is the new Environmental Law -- it's going to be HUGE!

Animal Law is relevant to MANY different existing fields of law:
Criminal Law implications - can police just shoot dogs for no reason? (yes) Battered spouses often are afraid to leave because the abuser will keep/steal/kill their pets. Animal abusers are likely to abuse humans, so there is a movement for an animal abuser registry like a sex offender registry
Environmental Law - factory farming. In fact, at Lewis & Clark's Animal Law clinic they evaluated the Oregon Department of Agriculture’s (ODA) handling of the state’s National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System (NPDES) program with respect to Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations (CAFOs). How cool is that!!??
International Law - zoo policies worldwide, getting the use of animals in circuses banned

Lewis & Clark also offers an LLM in Animal Law so I guess if you go elsewhere, you can always go back later for that!

[BigZuck]

Lewis & Clark for SURE. They are the only school in the country to have an animal law program. I used to think animal law was all about campaigning to be able to take your companion monkey into the grocery store with you because of your social anxiety, but it's so much more!

Animal Law is the new Environmental Law -- it's going to be HUGE!

Animal Law is relevant to MANY different existing fields of law:
Criminal Law implications - can police just shoot dogs for no reason? (yes) Battered spouses often are afraid to leave because the abuser will keep/steal/kill their pets. Animal abusers are likely to abuse humans, so there is a movement for an animal abuser registry like a sex offender registry
Environmental Law - factory farming. In fact, at Lewis & Clark's Animal Law clinic they evaluated the Oregon Department of Agriculture’s (ODA) handling of the state’s National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System (NPDES) program with respect to Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations (CAFOs). How cool is that!!??
International Law - zoo policies worldwide, getting the use of animals in circuses banned

Lewis & Clark also offers an LLM in Animal Law so I guess if you go elsewhere, you can always go back later for that!

Please tell me Lewis and Clark doesn't offer an LLM in anything, let alone animal law. I refuse to believe it, but I'm not going to google it because I'm afraid it's true and that will make me sad.

Eta: I googled it. Damn it.

[Pragmatic Gun]

Lewis & Clark for SURE. They are the only school in the country to have an animal law program. I used to think animal law was all about campaigning to be able to take your companion monkey into the grocery store with you because of your social anxiety, but it's so much more!

Animal Law is the new Environmental Law -- it's going to be HUGE!

Animal Law is relevant to MANY different existing fields of law:
Criminal Law implications - can police just shoot dogs for no reason? (yes) Battered spouses often are afraid to leave because the abuser will keep/steal/kill their pets. Animal abusers are likely to abuse humans, so there is a movement for an animal abuser registry like a sex offender registry
Environmental Law - factory farming. In fact, at Lewis & Clark's Animal Law clinic they evaluated the Oregon Department of Agriculture’s (ODA) handling of the state’s National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System (NPDES) program with respect to Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations (CAFOs). How cool is that!!??
International Law - zoo policies worldwide, getting the use of animals in circuses banned

Lewis & Clark also offers an LLM in Animal Law so I guess if you go elsewhere, you can always go back later for that!

Please tell me Lewis and Clark doesn't offer an LLM in anything, let alone animal law. I refuse to believe it, but I'm not going to google it because I'm afraid it's true and that will make me sad.

Eta: I googled it. Damn it.

:'(

[Clearly]

Lsat score?