Which Undergrad Uni/Major should I choose for corporate law? Forum

[Michaelgao96]

Hello everyone!

I'm heading off to college next year and, at this point, I'm quite sure I want to pursue a career in corporate law. After applying to many schools and receiving all my letters, I have a choice to make and it's certainly not going to be easy.

I'm ultimately deciding between Middlebury College, NYU Stern, UCLA, and Wesleyan University! I know I want to find work in the corporate law world, and I was wondering which university/college major would be the best to reach my goal of attending a top law school and working for a firm.

I've been doing a lot of reading and from what I've seen, it appears that law schools like HYS favor top LAC's like Middlebury, Amherst, Vassar, Williams, etc.

I'm mostly torn between Middlebury and NYU Stern. So if I want to go to a top 10 law school and work in the corporate law field, which university/majors would best prepare me for entrance? Thank you all in advance for your help! This has been one of my dreams since I was young and I greatly appreciate any help that brings me closer to it.

Edit: Oops, did not realize Princeton doesn't have a Law School (I guess that shows how much I know!)

[Mack.Hambleton]

1. princeton doesn't have a law school

2. none of those schools will give a noticeable boost in law school admissions, it's a numbers game, LSAT and GPA. Go to whichever is cheaper if you're taking out loans. If your parents are bankrolling your undergrad then go wherever.

3. undergrad doesn't matter, here's harvards list of undergrads from last year's 1L class: http://www.law.harvard.edu/prospective/ ... grads.html

4. if you want to do corporate work do a business/finance major and get related internships, and possibly work after undergrad.

[hcrimson2014]

I'm ultimately deciding between Middlebury College, NYU Stern, UCLA, and Wesleyan University!

Whichever school that offers basket weaving as a major to minimize your effort and maximize your gpa so that all you have to worry about will be the lsat and scoring some on campus leadership enrollments with fancy titles that you can put on your cv which should not be difficult given that you will have a lot of free time majoring in basket weaving. You will be in HYS in 4 years if you follow these steps.

Edit: It seems that African American study (just to name the one that comes to mind) is a more realistic version of a basket weaving major so do a little search as to which colleges' AA study gives its class the highest GPA and wherever you go, do not go to NYU where gpas are out of 4, putting you at a huge disadvantage against kids from schools with an A+/4.33 gpa.

[manu6926]

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[jbagelboy]

Mathematics: objectively best major ever.
Philosophy or History: close seconds.

I would think you'd have a better idea of exactly what you were looking for in your college experience. I'd definitely take Middlebury, but I'm a big LAC proponent. NYU and UCLA are completely different from Wesleyan and Middlebury. Did you just shotgun a bunch of good schools, or were you selective in choosing where to apply based on your interests?

DO NOT choose a college, especially an LAC, based on a perceived improvement in your chances at law school many years later. Here's my advise:
First of all, as others have noted, none of these schools will make any difference (although Middlebury and Wesleyan will make you a more interesting candidate for more exogenous reasons in my experience), your GPA will be the effective marker.
Second, you need to avoid being miserable - choose a school that's a good fit for you. If you're a CA native and you know you would despise New England winters, go to UCLA and be happy. If you aren't a CA resident, then UCLA is horribly overpriced and I wouldn't go there. Have you visited these schools and spoken with students? Again, I think you'll find differences in personalities (either via self-selection or formation upon arrival) at UCLA, NYU, and the LAC's. I've had friends be very happy at UCLA, and friends very happy at Middlebury. They tend to not be the same kinds of people. Being happy, engaged and fulfilled as a college student will dictate far more about your success in law school admissions than any erroneous perceived difference between these schools for a future admissions committee.
Third, even assuming arguendo that you do decide to go to law school in the future, don't treat the next (possibly best) four years of your life as some sort of step along the way. College is a remarkably transformative experience and you have to take that ride and get the most out of it. Enjoy what you study and profit from it intellectually, and you'll not only get better grades & develop closer relationships with professors for letters of recommendation but you'll be a more fulfilled person. which leads me to
Fourth, maybe you'll decide you don't want to become another attorney after all. My friends who were most fixated on making a lot of money usually went into PE/IB instead of (or before) law school. People like me who wanted to work in professional services and problem solve but weren't totally set out for grad school yet headed into consulting. Maybe you'll fall in love with a subject and want to pursue a PhD in it, who knows. Be open to more possibilities - look at where graduates at the schools are going, what internships and campus activities you could involve yourself in, ect.
Fifth, chill. Regardless of where you go, your freshmen orientation and the gallons of cheap vodka you consume under pressure to conform and escape perilous awkwardness during your first few weeks of college will hopefully untangle some of this for you.

Lastly one final note, as you will learn in 3-4 years when you start applying to law schools (or arrive as a 1L), "Corporate" law is a specific practice group that might not actually reflect your interests. If you mean you just want to represent client corporations, you can do that in a number of ways at a large firm (most of which are based out of New York City). I highly doubt you are aware of the distinctions between different transactional, litigation and regulatory practice areas at this point, and that's fine - just try to avoid the phrase "corporate law" in such a generic sense in conversations with your peers, professors, and future employers.

Best of luck!

[cotiger]

Fifth, chill.

chill

chill

Also, I choose Middlebury. LACs are da bomb.

[Michaelgao96]

Mathematics: objectively best major ever.
Philosophy or History: close seconds.

I would think you'd have a better idea of exactly what you were looking for in your college experience. I'd definitely take Middlebury, but I'm a big LAC proponent. NYU and UCLA are completely different from Wesleyan and Middlebury. Did you just shotgun a bunch of good schools, or were you selective in choosing where to apply based on your interests?

DO NOT choose a college, especially an LAC, based on a perceived improvement in your chances at law school many years later. Here's my advise:
First of all, as others have noted, none of these schools will make any difference (although Middlebury and Wesleyan will make you a more interesting candidate for more exogenous reasons in my experience), your GPA will be the effective marker.
Second, you need to avoid being miserable - choose a school that's a good fit for you. If you're a CA native and you know you would despise New England winters, go to UCLA and be happy. If you aren't a CA resident, then UCLA is horribly overpriced and I wouldn't go there. Have you visited these schools and spoken with students? Again, I think you'll find differences in personalities (either via self-selection or formation upon arrival) at UCLA, NYU, and the LAC's. I've had friends be very happy at UCLA, and friends very happy at Middlebury. They tend to not be the same kinds of people. Being happy, engaged and fulfilled as a college student will dictate far more about your success in law school admissions than any erroneous perceived difference between these schools for a future admissions committee.
Third, even assuming arguendo that you do decide to go to law school in the future, don't treat the next (possibly best) four years of your life as some sort of step along the way. College is a remarkably transformative experience and you have to take that ride and get the most out of it. Enjoy what you study and profit from it intellectually, and you'll not only get better grades & develop closer relationships with professors for letters of recommendation but you'll be a more fulfilled person

Wow thank you so much! Unfortunately math is my weakest subject, but I'm a huuuggeee history buff (every kind!)

I visited Middlebury, Wesleyan and NYU and absolutely loved aspects of all three. What I love about Middlebury is the idea of a classic, Northeastern college experience that my friends who are there now say is a similar yet much improved version of our boarding school. On the other hand, New York is such an exciting place and the opportunities for jobs and internships seem limitless! My parents convinced me to apply to UCLA, and I'm a native of the east coast yet I qualify for in-state tuition so there's that too.

I have several friends enrolled in Middlebury (2 Febs and 3 Regs), as well as a few friends at NYU, although none of them study at Stern so I've refrained from asking them.

Just curious, what did you major in while you were in college? Also, how would going to Middlebury make me a more interesting candidate?

I understand that my GPA and LSAT scores will be most important, but how much of a tipper would internships/work experience be in the process? Suppose I can earn a 3.6 at NYU but take on a few steady internships, or a 3.8 at Middlebury with little to no work experience. Would the higher GPA still be preferable? As a high school student, we've always been taught that AO's love all the little extra things like extracurricular's, work experience, etc.

Sorry for so many questions. I'm really, truly thankful for all your advice. I'll be visiting the schools in two weeks so hopefully I'll be able to get a better feel of the two and find out which one I truly want the most!

My apologies for the malapropism!

[Clearly]

But you're not getting the point...don't pick your school based on what makes you the best law school candidate, because there is no choice that stands far above the rest, and because the other aspects of this decision are much much more important to deal with. Literally the only thing that should have anything to do with law school in this decision is where do you think you can keep your GPA up. Extracurricular activities will be available regardless of the school, and they aren't particularly important beyond not having a nearly naked resume.

Seriously, you are going to have to deal with this decision for the next four years, don't let law school be the determining factor beyond "can I get good grades here", which should be a priority regardless of law school.

[opticnerved]

Wesleyan alum here. Feel free to ask/pm me any questions.

[Kimikho]

High GPA is all that matters until you get to extremes (ie--don't fuck up a high GPA by taking twenty classes pass/fail), but even at the extremes, Harvard doesn't care. If it is the difference between a 4.0 and no softs and a 3.9 and softs, I would personally take the 3.9 and average softs, but that's because a 4.0-no-softs would just be a shitty college experience and the softs can provide you other things to round out your app (LORs, essay topics, etc).

Work experience is starting to matter, but I don't have any and have performed exactly as my numbers say I would.

My brother goes to Wesleyan and loves it, so there's that. It's a good thing he is going the PhD route, though, because he's burned through any money my parents could ever hope to give him (and then about $150,000 more).

TL;DR: Happy people get good grades and make solid connections; miserable people probably don't do those things. Go to the school that will make you the happiest for the least debt and study something that forces you to think critically and not just memorize.

ETA: but seriously, ignore all this if one of those schools gives A+s and just go there if it does. I'm pretty sure all of those are respectable schools and do not do that.

[CptnAwesome]

Like everyone else said, don't choose a college based on what you want to do afterwards. I started off as a biology major focused on going to med school, changed my mind during junior year and switched to finance and decided on law school. Granted I'd always been interested in law from an early age, but a variety of factors led me towards medicine - I went through a process, researched, talked to a lot of people, learned more about myself, and realized that I would kick myself if I went that route instead of law like I had always wanted to. College is a time for growth and experience. Choose the college you like best, major in something you find interesting (or if you're dead set on law school, something easy), and enjoy yourself.

[cotiger]

Please do not pick a college or major based on how you think it might look on a law school application at least five years in the future (if at all).

Go to the school that feels best to you.

Major in what interests you the most.

Chill out and have a good time.

[McAvoy]

No advice on which college to go to, but I'd totally echo the economics/philosophy double major suggestion above. It's a fantastic blend of content areas that will do wonders in developing your critical thinking, reading and writing skills, and you'll come away with some practical skills that will allow you to compete for a finance job while still getting an education in the humanities.

Sell out to get that GPA as close to 4.0 as possible, and do your best to get an interesting internship every summer. Plan to work for a year or two before law school, too (not saying you'll need to, it's just a more advisable route, and you don't want law school to be your only option).

[John Everyman]

I did Econ/Poli Sci double major and regret it. Econ folks have nearly just as much of a difficult schedule as the accounting and finance guys, and way more difficult schedule than the business guys, yet the degree looks worse than any of those three majors for getting a banking gig.

Go hard sciences, don't fall into the humanities trap, it's a giant waste of time for getting a job out of school.

Edited for clarity.

[Cellar-door]

Go somewhere with massive GPA inflation. Then take the easiest possible classes.

[McAvoy]

Go hard sciences, don't fall into the humanities trap, it's a giant waste of time.

Agree on hard sciences (though OP said he's not a STEM kind of guy) but that's just a load of crap, respectfully. Waste of time as in "waste of time for getting a job right out of school"? Sure. Waste of time for life? No way.

For our purposes here, Philosophy is tied for the highest-scoring LSAT major, "Business" is one of the lowest, mostly because you don't develop critical thinking and reasoning skills in Organizational Development and Intro to Human Resources.

But, OP, do what makes you happy, get a 4.0 and crush the LSAT, if law school is really what you want. It doesn't really matter what major you pick.

tl;dr, this:

Go somewhere with massive GPA inflation. Then take the easiest possible classes.

[Clearly]

Go hard sciences, don't fall into the humanities trap, it's a giant waste of time.

Agree on hard sciences (though OP said he's not a STEM kind of guy) but that's just a load of crap, respectfully. Waste of time as in "waste of time for getting a job right out of school"? Sure. Waste of time for life? No way.

For our purposes here, Philosophy is tied for the highest-scoring LSAT major, "Business" is one of the lowest, mostly because you don't develop critical thinking and reasoning skills in Organizational Development and Intro to Human Resources.

But, OP, do what makes you happy, get a 4.0 and crush the LSAT, if law school is really what you want. It doesn't really matter what major you pick.

tl;dr, this:

Go somewhere with massive GPA inflation. Then take the easiest possible classes.

You're drawing an awful lot conclusions from that lsat study, it very well could just be brainy dedicated kids would choose to study philosophy, and lazy undecided kids will study business...

[dwil770]

You should major in econ and get a brand name high profile job after undergrad for two years, like an IB analyst (just do goldman bro). I think the consensus on the board is that good WE might help with admissions but won't do anything to "fix" a subpar GPA/LSAT, but solid WE will help with OCI. More knowledgeable folks feel free to correct...

[McAvoy]

You're drawing an awful lot conclusions from that lsat study, it very well could just be brainy dedicated kids would choose to study philosophy, and lazy undecided kids will study business...

You're right, I overstated that. I would still argue the point and not recommend (m/)any courses under business administration's auspices, assuming you were trying to "get smarter" or build really meaningful skills, but that'd only be based on personal experience.

[dwil770]

You're drawing an awful lot conclusions from that lsat study, it very well could just be brainy dedicated kids would choose to study philosophy, and lazy undecided kids will study business...

You're right, I overstated that. I would still argue the point and not recommend (m/)any courses under business administration's auspices, assuming you were trying to "get smarter" or build really meaningful skills, but that'd only be based on personal experience.

"Meaningful skills"? Like immeasurable personal development stuff?

Yeah man do philosophy. Learn to think like a law school applicant.

[t-14orbust]

High GPA is all that matters until you get to extremes (ie--don't fuck up a high GPA by taking twenty classes pass/fail), but even at the extremes, Harvard doesn't care. If it is the difference between a 4.0 and no softs and a 3.9 and softs, I would personally take the 3.9 and average softs, but that's because a 4.0-no-softs would just be a shitty college experience and the softs can provide you other things to round out your app (LORs, essay topics, etc).

Work experience is starting to matter, but I don't have any and have performed exactly as my numbers say I would.

My brother goes to Wesleyan and loves it, so there's that. It's a good thing he is going the PhD route, though, because he's burned through any money my parents could ever hope to give him (and then about $150,000 more).

TL;DR: Happy people get good grades and make solid connections; miserable people probably don't do those things. Go to the school that will make you the happiest for the least debt and study something that forces you to think critically and not just memorize.

ETA: but seriously, ignore all this if one of those schools gives A+s and just go there if it does. I'm pretty sure all of those are respectable schools and do not do that.

pretty sure UCLA gives A+'s

[McAvoy]

I would still argue the point and not recommend (m/)any courses under business administration's auspices, assuming you were trying to "get smarter" or build really meaningful skills, but that'd only be based on personal experience.

"Meaningful skills"? Like immeasurable personal development stuff?

Yeah man do philosophy. Learn to think like a law school applicant.

I would have counted philosophy under the "get smarter" (ie critical thinking, reasoning and reading skills) prong, not the meaningful skills prong, although those are also obviously meaningful skills. I suggested an econ double to satisfy that prong, where you would develop more marketable and useful skills over a generic "business administration" degree.

[Kimikho]

High GPA is all that matters until you get to extremes (ie--don't fuck up a high GPA by taking twenty classes pass/fail), but even at the extremes, Harvard doesn't care. If it is the difference between a 4.0 and no softs and a 3.9 and softs, I would personally take the 3.9 and average softs, but that's because a 4.0-no-softs would just be a shitty college experience and the softs can provide you other things to round out your app (LORs, essay topics, etc).

Work experience is starting to matter, but I don't have any and have performed exactly as my numbers say I would.

My brother goes to Wesleyan and loves it, so there's that. It's a good thing he is going the PhD route, though, because he's burned through any money my parents could ever hope to give him (and then about $150,000 more).

TL;DR: Happy people get good grades and make solid connections; miserable people probably don't do those things. Go to the school that will make you the happiest for the least debt and study something that forces you to think critically and not just memorize.

ETA: but seriously, ignore all this if one of those schools gives A+s and just go there if it does. I'm pretty sure all of those are respectable schools and do not do that.

pretty sure UCLA gives A+'s

Go to UCLA.

[Emma.]

Don't fall into the trap of a bullshit major that railroads you into law school because you aren't qualified for anything else. Do finance or business. You might have to work a little harder to maintain a killer GPA, but at the end of UG you'll have other options in case you want to bail on the law route.

[manu6926]

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