USNWR Rankings 2016 Predictions Forum

[dwil770]

The sub tier thing is silly even by TLS standards. Who cares whether Penn is more like the schools just above or just below it. Imagine going around asking someone if the number 7 was closer to 6 or closer to 8.

I asked a few questions in a broad topic and people fixated on the positioning of the letter p, so to answer "who cares?": you, me, and most people here

Because there is nothing else to talk about on the topic. Everyone knows HYS are sort of a holy trinity as far as law schools go. Everyone knows that Columbia and Chicago are very close together, with NYU just a tad behind in most employment stats. Literally the only place anyone is ever confused is whether P is "more like" the schools above it or the schools below it (a point I already noted was beyond silly and narrow).

Oh so you think HYS CC N P?

[Kimikho]

This is worse than posting a two-page-OP skype interview tips thread.

[bjsesq]

EVERYTHING WILL CHANGE

[Ricky-Bobby]

With the Sandusky debacle now in the past, I see Penn moving up to join CCN

I don't know. Penn was not on the same level as CCN even before Sandusky got himself some in the locker room. I can't see that changing.

You might be right but their reputation really took a hit once that news broke. I saw recently that Paterno family is still going after the school and I can't imagine that will help the school.

2011 called. It wants its worn out "pretend to confuse U Penn with Penn State" trolling back.

Since when are there TWO Penns?!

[rpupkin]

The sub tier thing is silly even by TLS standards. Who cares whether Penn is more like the schools just above or just below it. Imagine going around asking someone if the number 7 was closer to 6 or closer to 8.

I asked a few questions in a broad topic and people fixated on the positioning of the letter p, so to answer "who cares?": you, me, and most people here

Because there is nothing else to talk about on the topic. Everyone knows HYS are sort of a holy trinity as far as law schools go. Everyone knows that Columbia and Chicago are very close together, with NYU just a tad behind in most employment stats. Literally the only place anyone is ever confused is whether P is "more like" the schools above it or the schools below it (a point I already noted was beyond silly and narrow).

Oh so you think HYS CC N P?

I think that's sensible. For now. But have you seen the internal numbers of the most recent USWNR rankings? The trends look bad for Penn. If things stay on the current trajectory, Penn will be struggling to stay above Duke by 2017. When all is said and done, the long-term sub-tiers will likely look as follows:

HY
SC
C
NBV
M
PDN
GC

[zman]

Do they really count law school funded jobs?? if yes expect everyone to hire their unemployed grads..

[Ricky-Bobby]

I think that's sensible. For now. But have you seen the internal numbers of the most recent USWNR rankings? The trends look bad for Penn. If things stay on the current trajectory, Penn will be struggling to stay above Duke by 2017. When all is said and done, the long-term sub-tiers will likely look as follows:

HY
SC
C
NBV
M
PDN
GC

I'm going to need clarification on your second "C."

[rpupkin]

I think that's sensible. For now. But have you seen the internal numbers of the most recent USWNR rankings? The trends look bad for Penn. If things stay on the current trajectory, Penn will be struggling to stay above Duke by 2017. When all is said and done, the long-term sub-tiers will likely look as follows:

HY
SC
C
NBV
M
PDN
GC

I'm going to need clarification on your second "C."

Columbia. Although CLS is hanging tough, it's about to slip relative to Chicago, which is becoming the Palo Alto of the Midwest. At the same time, CLS is putting distance between itself and the other "T6" school in NYC.

[kaiser]

I think that's sensible. For now. But have you seen the internal numbers of the most recent USWNR rankings? The trends look bad for Penn. If things stay on the current trajectory, Penn will be struggling to stay above Duke by 2017. When all is said and done, the long-term sub-tiers will likely look as follows:

HY
SC
C
NBV
M
PDN
GC

I'm going to need clarification on your second "C."

Columbia. Although CLS is hanging tough, it's about to slip relative to Chicago, which is becoming the Palo Alto of the Midwest. At the same time, CLS is putting distance between itself and the other "T6" school in NYC.

Based on what stats? The NLJ Go to Schools List?

[Mack.Hambleton]

With the Sandusky debacle now in the past, I see Penn moving up to join CCN

I don't know. Penn was not on the same level as CCN even before Sandusky got himself some in the locker room. I can't see that changing.

Haha, you're thinking of Penn State which is a public school, whereas the University of Pennsylvania or "Penn" is actually an Ivy League university.

[Ricky-Bobby]

I think that's sensible. For now. But have you seen the internal numbers of the most recent USWNR rankings? The trends look bad for Penn. If things stay on the current trajectory, Penn will be struggling to stay above Duke by 2017. When all is said and done, the long-term sub-tiers will likely look as follows:

HY
SC
C
NBV
M
PDN
GC

I'm going to need clarification on your second "C."

Columbia. Although CLS is hanging tough, it's about to slip relative to Chicago, which is becoming the Palo Alto of the Midwest. At the same time, CLS is putting distance between itself and the other "T6" school in NYC.

Did someone say something about Chicago droves?

[PrideandGlory1776]

Cooley's rank will skyrocket and Detroit Mercy will crack the t-14 for sure - prepare yourselves the masses will be flocking in droves - DROVES I TELL YOU!

[twenty 8]

2011 called. It wants its worn out "pretend to confuse U Penn with Penn State" trolling back.

Also. I think the burning question here is: if NW/Cor/Gtown tied, would it be called the T12 instead of the T13?

[goldeneye]

With the Sandusky debacle now in the past, I see Penn moving up to join CCN

I don't know. Penn was not on the same level as CCN even before Sandusky got himself some in the locker room. I can't see that changing.

Haha, you're thinking of Penn State which is a public school, whereas the University of Pennsylvania or "Penn" is actually an Ivy League university.

What? I knew what I was saying. Penn had Sandusky as a football coach and he got into major trouble. The university got majorly sanctioned. You're mistaken.

[sublime]

..

[A. Nony Mouse]

With the Sandusky debacle now in the past, I see Penn moving up to join CCN

I don't know. Penn was not on the same level as CCN even before Sandusky got himself some in the locker room. I can't see that changing.

Haha, you're thinking of Penn State which is a public school, whereas the University of Pennsylvania or "Penn" is actually an Ivy League university.

What? I knew what I was saying. Penn had Sandusky as a football coach and he got into major trouble. The university got majorly sanctioned. You're mistaken.

I swear to god I'm going to ban the next person who either makes or falls for a Penn = Penn State joke.

okay, I won't, but maybe you all should avoid tempting me

[goldeneye]

[Crowing]

There are very few funny TLS memes. Penn/Penn State is not one of those select few.

[Hipster but Athletic]

1. yale
2. hartford
3. samford
4. colombia
5. chicago-kent
6. NYLS
7. penn
8. uva
9. duke
10. cal state
11. northeastern
12. michigan state
13. cornell
13. grambling university law center
15. texas
16. vanderbilt
16. penn state
18. loyla-ucla
19. emory
19. george mason
21. university of washington
22. usc-columbia

[Kimikho]

.

[Mal Reynolds]

This is worse than posting a two-page-OP skype interview tips thread.

Hahahahaa that's funny because you did that! It's so self aware!

[ThinkNegative]

I think that's sensible. For now. But have you seen the internal numbers of the most recent USWNR rankings? The trends look bad for Penn. If things stay on the current trajectory, Penn will be struggling to stay above Duke by 2017. When all is said and done, the long-term sub-tiers will likely look as follows:

HY
SC
C

What are these US news internals that lead you to put S below HY and with (either) C? Not flame, interested how S dropped after raising our lsat median higher, and also this kinda stuff.

Yale - Stanford - Harvard - Chi -CLS
82.0 — 91.2 — 87.1 — 94.9 — 93.4 — Employment Score
4.5 — 3.3 — 4.6 — 3.3 — 1.9 — Under-Employment Score
34.7 — 28.2 — 17.8 — 14.4 — 7.9 — Fed clerkships
9.5 — 2.2 — 3.2 — 7.9 — 8.1 — School funded

[manu6926]

I think we've reached a point of USNWR ranking stability.

That point was reached the first year USNWR ranked law schools. In fact, it was reached even before then. Here are the results of the Blau-Margulies Reputational Rankings, which surveyed 104 law school deans. This is from 1974:

1. Harvard Law School
2. Yale Law School
3. University of Michigan Law School
4. Columbia Law School
5. University of Chicago Law School
6. Stanford Law School
7. University of California, Berkeley Boalt Hall School of Law
8. New York University School of Law
9. University of Pennsylvania Law School
10. University of Virginia School of Law


It's the same 10 schools that make up the current USNWR top 10. This is from 40 years ago, and nearly 20 years before USNWR started regularly ranking the law schools. Nothing really changes.

Wow. Awesome post. The decline of Michigan was dramatic, to say the least. Columbia and Chicago have pretty much always been peer schools. Stanford and NYU rose to the top steadily.

Based on what I've seen from the past rankings since 1987, I think YHS and CCN will keep their top 6 spots without any meaningful change for the next decade. Membership of t14 won't change.

[manu6926]

I think we've reached a point of USNWR ranking stability.

That point was reached the first year USNWR ranked law schools. In fact, it was reached even before then. Here are the results of the Blau-Margulies Reputational Rankings, which surveyed 104 law school deans. This is from 1974:

1. Harvard Law School
2. Yale Law School
3. University of Michigan Law School
4. Columbia Law School
5. University of Chicago Law School
6. Stanford Law School
7. University of California, Berkeley Boalt Hall School of Law
8. New York University School of Law
9. University of Pennsylvania Law School
10. University of Virginia School of Law


It's the same 10 schools that make up the current USNWR top 10. This is from 40 years ago, and nearly 20 years before USNWR started regularly ranking the law schools. Nothing really changes.

They've shifted a lot though. My point is there likely won't be any permanent change among the "sub-tiers" any time soon.

I just don't get why 0Ls get so obsessed over this "sub-tier" BS. There is literally not a single hiring partner in the world who would know what the hell "CCN" or "MVPB" means.

'
How do you know? All these "employers don't look at rankings" lack credibility. I recall Mike Spivey said that they do occasionally look at rankings. Plus employers obviously know what the top schools are. http://www.wlrk.com/summerassociates/

[haus]

I predict that after next years rankings USNWR will go out of business, leaving future students scrounging for some other list to obsess over.