Thoughts on JD/MBA from Harvard, Stanford or Penn?

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patogordo
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Re: Thoughts on JD/MBA from Harvard, Stanford or Penn?

Postby patogordo » Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:24 pm

but congrats on continuing to bicker over some lame attempt at inductive argument instead of just googling "distressed debt"

luckystar84
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Re: Thoughts on JD/MBA from Harvard, Stanford or Penn?

Postby luckystar84 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:27 pm

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Last edited by luckystar84 on Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ratfukr
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Re: Thoughts on JD/MBA from Harvard, Stanford or Penn?

Postby ratfukr » Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:41 pm

luckystar84 wrote:
ratfukr wrote:(literally doesn't know what distressed debt is)


*pretends to know what it is, on a 0L board preaching how instrumental a JD is to distressed debt, when it's virtually useless even in its own domain.

I don't have to understand astrophysics to know an English lit PhD isn't going to help me build spaceships.

good point dipshit
going 2 law school w a focus on bankruptcy & corp wouldn't b useful at all in special situations investing where u literally evaluate/price legal outcomes as ur job
guess i should have pointed that out 2 the OP who is already going 2 law school, has worked in standard corp track, & is considering a T3 MBA
but it's pretty obvious u don't have 2 understand *what distressed debt even is* 2 kno a priori that a JD would b useless b/c some lawyers don't remember evidence classes or sthg

luckystar84
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Re: Thoughts on JD/MBA from Harvard, Stanford or Penn?

Postby luckystar84 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:41 pm

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iamgeorgebush
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Re: Thoughts on JD/MBA from Harvard, Stanford or Penn?

Postby iamgeorgebush » Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:08 am

luckystar84 wrote:ljl, corps, securities regs, and other courses are "topical" to the JD-required practice of the raw, but even there they don't help you do the job. how are they supposed to help in distressed debt?

luckystar84.

this is the reasoning.

it's the analytical thinking that law school imparts that is valuable, not knowledge of specific statutes, etc. we all know that law school doesn't teach you how to actually practice law...it's the "thinking like a lawyer" part that is of value to people in high finance. hence, because "thinking like a lawyer" is not something too easily learned through experience, going to law school may have value to some finance types...particularly distresed debt, since it involves evaluating risks like a lawyer does.

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ratfukr
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Re: Thoughts on JD/MBA from Harvard, Stanford or Penn?

Postby ratfukr » Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:34 am

luckystar84 wrote:ljl, corps, securities regs, and other courses are "topical" to the JD-required practice of the raw, but even there they don't help you do the job. how are they supposed to help in distressed debt?

ratfukr wrote:e: tbf OP this is more of a WSO question http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/j ... e-andor-rx (there are more)


there are answers in that thread that are very specific as opposed 2 bullshit riffing on things 0Ls like u kno fuck all about & that is why i suggested OP go there
ur characterization of TLS as "a board full of 0Ls" & the resulting solipsistic shitposter nonsense is what fucks up the on-ts 2 the point where outbound links are the best answer
in the meantime actual law students and former biglaw associates are trying 2 give their opinions from their perspectives on the subject in this very thread
it's bad enough that it gets 2 the point where it's actually a bad resource in cases like these b/c some ignorant dickweed like u inevitably posts 2 hear the sound of ur own voice
u don't kno what distressed debt even is but there are multiple references 2 event-driven/distressed/special/etc rationales for joint degrees all over the net
but never mind actual research - u have some cutting inductive insight in2 multiple professions you've never spent a day in & classes you've never even visited
have u ever had an actual job, much less in finance, luckystar84? what value do u think it brings 2 post paragraphs of nonsense, including that a JD would b useless in DD?
what kind of value do u think it adds here 2 inappropriately extrapolate conventional wisdom about what lawyers do w/r/t their education?
do u just post useless drivel and then delete it as an MO? is that ur idea of providing a resource?
you're a terrible poster and i hope u get IP banned once & 4 all

OP i'm not a manager but i'd think u have 2 imagine yourself 1) applying for those jobs but also 2) maybe raising a fund at some point?
i'd be interested 2 see how the institutional attitude toward principals w joint degrees evolves as they become more prevalent
i've idly personally speculated in the past about potential degree arms races by upstart managers but like i said - i don't allocate
if ur research on the greener corners of the finance pro net turns up answers in that regard do please come back & post ur findings
e: actually maybe cold call a finance headhunter & straight up ask what they think? it seems like a case-by-case thing but who knows

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patogordo
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Re: Thoughts on JD/MBA from Harvard, Stanford or Penn?

Postby patogordo » Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:04 am

iamgeorgebush wrote:
luckystar84 wrote:ljl, corps, securities regs, and other courses are "topical" to the JD-required practice of the raw, but even there they don't help you do the job. how are they supposed to help in distressed debt?

luckystar84.

this is the reasoning.

it's the analytical thinking that law school imparts that is valuable, not knowledge of specific statutes, etc. we all know that law school doesn't teach you how to actually practice law...it's the "thinking like a lawyer" part that is of value to people in high finance. hence, because "thinking like a lawyer" is not something too easily learned through experience, going to law school may have value to some finance types...particularly distresed debt, since it involves evaluating risks like a lawyer does.

lol at using this dude's rancid question-begging as evidence of "thinking like a lawyer" value added

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iamgeorgebush
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Re: Thoughts on JD/MBA from Harvard, Stanford or Penn?

Postby iamgeorgebush » Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:51 am

patogordo wrote:
iamgeorgebush wrote:
luckystar84 wrote:ljl, corps, securities regs, and other courses are "topical" to the JD-required practice of the raw, but even there they don't help you do the job. how are they supposed to help in distressed debt?

luckystar84.

this is the reasoning.

it's the analytical thinking that law school imparts that is valuable, not knowledge of specific statutes, etc. we all know that law school doesn't teach you how to actually practice law...it's the "thinking like a lawyer" part that is of value to people in high finance. hence, because "thinking like a lawyer" is not something too easily learned through experience, going to law school may have value to some finance types...particularly distresed debt, since it involves evaluating risks like a lawyer does.

lol at using this dude's rancid question-begging as evidence of "thinking like a lawyer" value added

first off, let me clarify that i was not actually making that argument myself. i don't know enough about finance, let alone something as specific as distressed debt, to say one way or another whether a JD would be valuable. but that's the argument i've heard made (for example, by a consultant with a JD whom I know): that the lawyerly thinking that law school teaches is valuable in fields other than law, such as consulting and finance.

second

that argument does not beg the question. the argument is:

1. law school imparts lawyerly thinking on its students
2. the ability to think like a lawyer provides value to some people in finance
3. it is difficult to learn to think like a lawyer w/o law school
4. therefore, going to law school may provide value to some people with goals of working in finance

there are some assumptions in the argument, but the argument does not assume the conclusion (4). the way i see it, the best way to dismantle the argument would be to deny either the assumption that the difficulty of learning to think like a lawyer outweighs the opportunity cost of 1-2 more years of school or the premise that it is difficult to learn to think like a lawyer w/o law school.

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ratfukr
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Re: Thoughts on JD/MBA from Harvard, Stanford or Penn?

Postby ratfukr » Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:58 am

iagb if i read correctly fd's response was metacommentary like:
1. law school imparts lawyerly thinking
2. luckystar84 is obviously question-begging
3. maybe if luckystar84 actually went 2 law school he would have a concept of its value
4. for example, not rancid question-begging on internet forums
QED LOL

e: i'm gonna go ahead & offer my 2 cents re:the value which is that it's a good idea 2 kno how ur vertical works when ur job is buying & selling assets in that sector/class/region/whatever
so maybe it's a good idea 2 kno how bankruptcy works & how 2 gauge those situations w/r/t valuation when ur job description includes, idk, eg *valuing claims in a bankruptcy as assets*
the fact that nobody teaches a class on the local rules of whatever district or how 2 enter time doesn't have an whole lot of fucking bearing on the value of domain knowledge
and even 2 the extent it does it's enraging 2 hear a mouthbreathing 0L make those claims on the heels of "look at F100 linkedins GM's head of cuprests didn't go 2 law school"

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iamgeorgebush
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Re: Thoughts on JD/MBA from Harvard, Stanford or Penn?

Postby iamgeorgebush » Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:29 pm

ratfukr wrote:iagb if i read correctly fd's response was metacommentary like:
1. law school imparts lawyerly thinking
2. luckystar84 is obviously question-begging
3. maybe if luckystar84 actually went 2 law school he would have a concept of its value
4. for example, not rancid question-begging on internet forums
QED LOL

e: i'm gonna go ahead & offer my 2 cents re:the value which is that it's a good idea 2 kno how ur vertical works when ur job is buying & selling assets in that sector/class/region/whatever
so maybe it's a good idea 2 kno how bankruptcy works & how 2 gauge those situations w/r/t valuation when ur job description includes, idk, eg *valuing claims in a bankruptcy as assets*
the fact that nobody teaches a class on the local rules of whatever district or how 2 enter time doesn't have an whole lot of fucking bearing on the value of domain knowledge
and even 2 the extent it does it's enraging 2 hear a mouthbreathing 0L make those claims on the heels of "look at F100 linkedins GM's head of cuprests didn't go 2 law school"

oh that makes sense. RC fail woops.

kartelite
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Re: Thoughts on JD/MBA from Harvard, Stanford or Penn?

Postby kartelite » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:18 pm

luckystar84 wrote:
ratfukr wrote:luckystar84 do u kno what distressed debt is?


lol at a board of 0Ls knowing what distressed debt is. but enlighten me as to the following: if a JD is useless for the actual "practice of the raw," how is it supposed to help you do DD?


Uh, some of us have actually worked in finance and have considerable experience with distressed debt and other valuation models. Not everyone here is 25 and coming off an internship with the local newspaper.

Distressed debt involves situations where the creditor thinks it will be unable to collect. In order for a DD investor to ascertain the value of said debt, understanding the legal position of the parties, the impact of liens and encumbrances, and the legal apparatus in which you're able to restructure debt can be very important.

That was mainly for commercial and residential real estate-type distressed debt, which is the first thing that came to mind since it's what I was most recently working on, but there is also investment in distressed debt securities (big-time stuff) where understanding the legal structure enables you to identify if certain securities may be vastly mispriced.

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patogordo
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Re: Thoughts on JD/MBA from Harvard, Stanford or Penn?

Postby patogordo » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:34 pm

"but if law school doesn't teach you how to write interrogatory responses, how is it going to help you evaluate a complex legal regime??"

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ratfukr
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Re: Thoughts on JD/MBA from Harvard, Stanford or Penn?

Postby ratfukr » Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:48 am

patogordo wrote:lol at using this dude's rancid question-begging as evidence of "thinking like a lawyer"answering rogs value added


1. do u even kno what distressed debt is?
RESPONSE: i looked at all the t14 course listings & didn't see even ONE class on moving commas

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patogordo
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Re: Thoughts on JD/MBA from Harvard, Stanford or Penn?

Postby patogordo » Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:56 am

ratfukr wrote:
patogordo wrote:lol at using this dude's rancid question-begging as evidence of "thinking like a lawyer"answering rogs value added


1. do u even kno what distressed debt is?
RESPONSE: i looked at all the t14 course listings & didn't see even ONE class on moving commas

you forgot "subject to and without waiving the 10 pages of bullshit objections set forth above"




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