Updating Resume?

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Pneumonia
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Updating Resume?

Postby Pneumonia » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:12 pm

Looking for thoughts or for advice from those that have been in a similar situation.

Earlier this week I was promoted at my job. I work for a non-profit and have been promoted into a regional management position. It is a substantive promotion and I am happy to take it, as well as hopeful that it will have a positive effect on my apps. It is my understanding that his is information worthy of an application update, but before doing so I have a few questions and concerns.

1) I applied to 12ish schools and have heard from 5 (acceptances) and haven't heard anything from the others. I'm wondering if I should update my apps now with a new resume, or wait to use it as content for possible future LOCI(s)?

2) My organization doesn't know I'm applying to law school, and thus probably leaving in the fall, so I don't want schools to contact them. Is this something schools are known to do, specifically when there is a resume update?

3) If I decide to update the schools that I'm pending to regarding my promotion (before being waitlisted), then what is the best way to do that? Simply an email with a new resume, or should I also write a short [something] about the fact that I have been promoted.

Any thoughts are appreciated. For reference I am in at UT/Duke/NYU and am wondering about the above in relation to Columbia and Harvard specifically (had a JS1 a few weeks ago). Mid 3.x GPA, high LSAT. Thanks!

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sd5289
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Re: Updating Resume?

Postby sd5289 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:17 pm

Pneumonia wrote:Earlier this week I was promoted at my job. I work for a non-profit and have been promoted into a regional management position. It is a substantive promotion and I am happy to take it, as well as hopeful that it will have a positive effect on my apps. It is my understanding that his is information worthy of an application update, but before doing so I have a few questions and concerns.


You took a substantial promotion knowing that you were going to peace out in < 6 months? And they don't know?

I'm not sure that's something you want to advertise. I did a lot of legal hiring before returning to school, and that is not something I would've liked. Oh, and I always checked the "last" employer someone worked with as a reference. I'm not sure if you have a "don't contact this employer" option since this would be a resume update and not an application. It would be very odd to send in a new resume with an addendum of "oh, but you can't talk to them." Again from a hiring standpoint I'd want to know why not?

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Pneumonia
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Re: Updating Resume?

Postby Pneumonia » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:27 pm

That is a good point. I should clarify that the org I work for has a high turnover rate and that, at least from our perspective, six months in an oversight position isn't overly short. For reference the person I'm replacing has been here for less than that and their predecessor was only here for a year. It's not a full time position (I am still a student) and there is already someone here that will be able to take it when I leave. The point being that I don't have any ethical qualms about taking it and then leaving later.

Your response is helpful though because the way I have described it makes it look bad. I should also mention that I'm not 100% on going to law school this Fall, but I do want to maximize my options. That is a fine line to walk obviously, but I'm trying.

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sd5289
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Re: Updating Resume?

Postby sd5289 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:41 pm

Pneumonia wrote:That is a good point. I should clarify that the org I work for has a high turnover rate and that, at least from our perspective, six months in an oversight position isn't overly short. For reference the person I'm replacing has been here for less than that and their predecessor was only here for a year. It's not a full time position (I am still a student) and there is already someone here that will be able to take it when I leave. The point being that I don't have any ethical qualms about taking it and then leaving later.

Your response is helpful though because the way I have described it makes it look bad. I should also mention that I'm not 100% on going to law school this Fall, but I do want to maximize my options. That is a fine line to walk obviously, but I'm trying.


Well that definitely clarifies it a bit. I was operating from a permanent position perspective, so yeah, if you decide to I would certainly phrase it in a way that doesn't come across the way it did to me. I saw "nonprofit" and thought long-term position as opposed to the short-term significance I would attach to non-professional jobs.

Is there any downside to telling your employer that you're thinking about leaving? My organization knew I was heading out about a year in advance, and we're on very, very good terms. In fact, once I started 2L, I went back as a consultant for some extra cash.

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cron1834
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Re: Updating Resume?

Postby cron1834 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:14 pm

From reading Spivey's thoughts, I gained the impression that it's tacky to send in LOCI or meaningless updates (let's be honest - no one cares about your promotion but you) before there's a decision made on you. Save it for a waitlist.

Also, I just cannot imagine that schools randomly call employers listed on applicant resumes. T14s are going to have 5,000 applicants, with several employers listed on each resume. Think about what it would entail for an admissions staff of a few people to do this. Where would they start, on why on earth would they do it?

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Pneumonia
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Re: Updating Resume?

Postby Pneumonia » Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:02 pm

Ok cool cool I'll save it for the inevitable LOCI's.
People always write "don't send meaningless updates; save them for important things like promotions," so I thought it might be worth updating. If ya'll think no though I won't. Thanks again.

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cron1834
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Re: Updating Resume?

Postby cron1834 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:43 pm

I'm far from an expert. That's for sure. But it's difficult to read Spivey's latest blog and conclude that a temporary promotion update on a resume is going to meaningfully help your chances, before you've been waitlisted.

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sd5289
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Re: Updating Resume?

Postby sd5289 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:23 am

cron1834 wrote:I'm far from an expert. That's for sure. But it's difficult to read Spivey's latest blog and conclude that a temporary promotion update on a resume is going to meaningfully help your chances, before you've been waitlisted.


I do agree with this. I've never been on an admissions counsel (obvi) but even in a professional setting I'm not sure it would make that much of a difference to me. I think I honestly looked more at the title of the organization than I did the job title itself, at least initially.

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angels2fly
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Re: Updating Resume?

Postby angels2fly » Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:41 am

Pneumonia wrote:Ok cool cool I'll save it for the inevitable LOCI's.
People always write "don't send meaningless updates; save them for important things like promotions," so I thought it might be worth updating. If ya'll think no though I won't. Thanks again.


If you are still a student and have grades to update, notifying the schools you sent a new transcript to LSAC and that you have attached an updated resume seems kosher to me.

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malleus discentium
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Re: Updating Resume?

Postby malleus discentium » Sat Feb 15, 2014 1:45 am

JS specifically lists a promotion as something you can send them. So there's your answer.

As for when to send it, I can't imagine it makes more sense to send it after you're waitlisted. Once you're WLed they're only going to take you if they need you. Better to give them a reason to take you before they make the decision to punt. I imagine something like this is more likely to make them admit you if they are waffling than it is to make them take you from the WL.

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cron1834
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Re: Updating Resume?

Postby cron1834 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:17 am

malleus discentium wrote:JS specifically lists a promotion as something you can send them. So there's your answer.

As for when to send it, I can't imagine it makes more sense to send it after you're waitlisted. Once you're WLed they're only going to take you if they need you. Better to give them a reason to take you before they make the decision to punt. I imagine something like this is more likely to make them admit you if they are waffling than it is to make them take you from the WL.


Perhaps you should read KB's response to this in the Admissions Officers thread. If sent in conjunction with grades, this is absolutely sensible, as you're updating anyway. If not, the value is somewhat questionable.

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malleus discentium
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Re: Updating Resume?

Postby malleus discentium » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:35 pm

cron1834 wrote:
malleus discentium wrote:JS specifically lists a promotion as something you can send them. So there's your answer.

As for when to send it, I can't imagine it makes more sense to send it after you're waitlisted. Once you're WLed they're only going to take you if they need you. Better to give them a reason to take you before they make the decision to punt. I imagine something like this is more likely to make them admit you if they are waffling than it is to make them take you from the WL.


Perhaps you should read KB's response to this in the Admissions Officers thread. If sent in conjunction with grades, this is absolutely sensible, as you're updating anyway. If not, the value is somewhat questionable.

I do not interpret her response the same way you did, but in any case her advice doesn't contradict mine. Sending updates is always of "questionable" value in the sense that there's no telling what updates are going to change an adcom's mind. But since the risk is giving adcoms too much info that they don't want, when you have the person making decisions now (rather than KB who generally avoids giving H-specific advice for understandable reasons) telling you that promotion updates are okay, it is at least not a bad idea. OP asked specifically about H (and Columbia but I have no idea about them) and so it seems prudent to listen to JS.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Updating Resume?

Postby MikeSpivey » Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:42 pm

nm, wrong link.
Last edited by MikeSpivey on Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Updating Resume?

Postby MikeSpivey » Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:42 pm

Karen and I both took a stab at this:

http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 1#p7480581

I hope this helps!

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cron1834
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Re: Updating Resume?

Postby cron1834 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:14 pm

Mike, thanks for the thoughts.

And LOL @ Denny's. I suspect there's a K-JD factor at work in overestimating the importance of some professional-life updates.

Edit - OP, not talking about you directly. Just generalizing - I think we share this suspicion.
Last edited by cron1834 on Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Pneumonia
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Re: Updating Resume?

Postby Pneumonia » Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:12 pm

cron1834 wrote:Mike, thanks for the thoughts.

And LOL @ Denny's. I suspect there's a K-JD factor at work in overestimating the importance of some professional-life updates.


That is true. To be clear though I'm not a KJD; I'm non trad and worked PI for several years before returning to school.

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ObiWahooKenobi
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Re: Updating Resume?

Postby ObiWahooKenobi » Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:14 pm

malleus discentium wrote:
cron1834 wrote:
malleus discentium wrote:JS specifically lists a promotion as something you can send them. So there's your answer.

As for when to send it, I can't imagine it makes more sense to send it after you're waitlisted. Once you're WLed they're only going to take you if they need you. Better to give them a reason to take you before they make the decision to punt. I imagine something like this is more likely to make them admit you if they are waffling than it is to make them take you from the WL.


Perhaps you should read KB's response to this in the Admissions Officers thread. If sent in conjunction with grades, this is absolutely sensible, as you're updating anyway. If not, the value is somewhat questionable.

I do not interpret her response the same way you did, but in any case her advice doesn't contradict mine. Sending updates is always of "questionable" value in the sense that there's no telling what updates are going to change an adcom's mind. But since the risk is giving adcoms too much info that they don't want, when you have the person making decisions now (rather than KB who generally avoids giving H-specific advice for understandable reasons) telling you that promotion updates are okay, it is at least not a bad idea. OP asked specifically about H (and Columbia but I have no idea about them) and so it seems prudent to listen to JS.


I think you're correct. I knew that I was likely to receive a promotion this fall (and just found out it came threw this morning!). My spouse is friends with a former T3 B-school admissions dean, so I asked him whether it was better to submit my application early or wait for the likely promotion. He said to submit the application as soon it was ready and just send an addendum upon promotion later.




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