Leaving 6-figure job for Law School? Am I crazy?

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akg144
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Re: Leaving 6-figure job for Law School? Am I crazy?

Postby akg144 » Sat Feb 15, 2014 4:32 pm

If you don't want to spend a lot of $ with a 175 you could do an ED to Northwestern and get a full ride easy with your 175 or try and get a full ride to their Advanced JD regular decision and be done in 2 years. Also with your work experience maybe get the JD/MBA in 4 years kellogg is #4 in the country. Obviously everyone is gonna say stay put but if your dream is to become a lawyer make it happen. Lastly thing is depending on your GPA a Rubby or Hamilton could be in the work if you have a 3.8+ so also consider that as well.

taylorswiftfan
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Re: Leaving 6-figure job for Law School? Am I crazy?

Postby taylorswiftfan » Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:12 pm

akg144 wrote:If you don't want to spend a lot of $ with a 175 you could do an ED to Northwestern and get a full ride easy with your 175 or try and get a full ride to their Advanced JD regular decision and be done in 2 years. Also with your work experience maybe get the JD/MBA in 4 years kellogg is #4 in the country. Obviously everyone is gonna say stay put but if your dream is to become a lawyer make it happen. Lastly thing is depending on your GPA a Rubby or Hamilton could be in the work if you have a 3.8+ so also consider that as well.


agreed. Full scholly JD MBA Northwestern would be a great way to go. Kellogg is an awesome MBA program to be in. Or just stay with that 6 figure salary.

LSBanker
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Re: Leaving 6-figure job for Law School? Am I crazy?

Postby LSBanker » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:58 pm

Thanks for the replies everyone, I really appreciate it. A couple things I should have mentioned:

I am an analyst, meaning my contract only lasts two years. If I'm good, I may be given an offer to stay a third year and if I'm exceptional, I may be promoted directly to associate, where I'd still be working 70-80 hours. I know biglaw isn't easy, but compared to what I'm used to it doesn't seem to bad. Plus, I will be shooting for a regional market rather than NYC, which should hopefully be a bit more relaxed. Also, to move up further in banking (barring a 10% chance of going A2A), I'd need an MBA. To the poster asking about pay, it seems like $70k + $50k bonus is average for first year analysts and $80k + $60k for second years in banking at least. That's what I'm basing my figure on.

What's the opinion on a JD/MBA? It would give me the optionality of going into either law or finance and the extra year gives me a chance to work in law before deciding to commit long term. The downside of course is cost (both in $ terms and opportunity cost), but I have heard that Booth/Chicago and Wharton/Penn have three year programs that look interesting.

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thewaves
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Re: Leaving 6-figure job for Law School? Am I crazy?

Postby thewaves » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:08 pm

Hmm looks like I learned the word "optionality" today. It's finance speak according to a google search. :P And yeah, only go for a 3 year JD/MBA given the opportunity costs.

NYstate
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Re: Leaving 6-figure job for Law School? Am I crazy?

Postby NYstate » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:37 pm

LSBanker wrote:Thanks for the replies everyone, I really appreciate it. A couple things I should have mentioned:

I am an analyst, meaning my contract only lasts two years. If I'm good, I may be given an offer to stay a third year and if I'm exceptional, I may be promoted directly to associate, where I'd still be working 70-80 hours. I know biglaw isn't easy, but compared to what I'm used to it doesn't seem to bad. Plus, I will be shooting for a regional market rather than NYC, which should hopefully be a bit more relaxed. Also, to move up further in banking (barring a 10% chance of going A2A), I'd need an MBA. To the poster asking about pay, it seems like $70k + $50k bonus is average for first year analysts and $80k + $60k for second years in banking at least. That's what I'm basing my figure on.

What's the opinion on a JD/MBA? It would give me the optionality of going into either law or finance and the extra year gives me a chance to work in law before deciding to commit long term. The downside of course is cost (both in $ terms and opportunity cost), but I have heard that Booth/Chicago and Wharton/Penn have three year programs that look interesting.


What region are you looking for? Your background will help you get hired by corporate firms in New York. Are you planning to leave NYC?

Why not just do an MBA?

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Frozinite
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Re: Leaving 6-figure job for Law School? Am I crazy?

Postby Frozinite » Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:41 am

LSBanker wrote:Hey all,

I'm currently a 1st year investment banking analyst at one of the bigger banks in NYC. I went to an Ivy Undergrad but graduated with just a little undergrad debt and have all of it paid off. I was planning on going to law school all throughout my undergrad and took the LSAT my junior year (I got a 175) but was lucky enough to get my current job and didn't think about it further. Now I'm starting to have second thoughts because, although I like finance, I always wanted to be a Lawyer and I feel my work experience would be very beneficial when recruiting for corporate law jobs. At the same time though, I'd be paying $100k+ for a job that pays maybe $20k more than I'm making now (and probably less if I had kept working in finance).

I will likely be able save enough to pay for most of my education myself and I won't have a crushing debt burden when I graduate, but would it be worth it to drop everything to go into law? I know a lot of people on here talk about biglaw being terrible for work-life balance, but 60+ hours sounds great to me since I'm used to 90+. Anyone here been through something similar? In the scheme of big corporate jobs, how is biglaw compared to big finance? How stable and steady is the career path? Is it worth dropping my finance career for a legal one?


I don't have much to contribute here as far as experience, but I am in basically your exact shoes and have already chosen to go back to school (applied this cycle). I'm 5 years out of college (BS and MS) and have been making 6 figures since 4 years ago. I was probably set to reach management level this year if I hadn't chosen to go to school (meaning more money and variable pay as well).

After talking to many people and several friends working in law, the consensus is: "if you're making enough money to be comfortable, do what you want to do. Money's not going to be a problem in your life. You will have way more than you'll know what to do with, in either option, trust me". Because of those comments, I decided to take the leap to go to school.

kartelite
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Re: Leaving 6-figure job for Law School? Am I crazy?

Postby kartelite » Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:29 am

Frozinite wrote:
After talking to many people and several friends working in law, the consensus is: "if you're making enough money to be comfortable, do what you want to do. Money's not going to be a problem in your life. You will have way more than you'll know what to do with, in either option, trust me". Because of those comments, I decided to take the leap to go to school.


Good on you.

This is an aspect many people who chastise others for giving up six-figure salaries fail to realize: we don't make that kind of money (at a relatively young age and without forking over professional school tuition) by dumb luck, it's because we have desirable skills that others demand, and we already know how to play the game. Worst case, it's a 3-year vacation* before returning to what we were doing before. Barring some debilitating injury I know I'll never have a problem in the job market (last month turned down an unsolicited six-figure consulting offer w/ signing bonus and two semiannual performance bonuses [from a guy I know, but formal offer letter and all]), and I'm quite confident of my ability to freelance/succeed in entrepreneurial ventures anyway. I'd imagine others in my position applying to LS are equally as "marketable," and none of us really care about what happens if BigLaw/clerkship/academia doesn't work out, since option B is back to finance or 140k in corporate development, not 65k at a regional firm. Follow your heart, bro, like Steve Jobs said.

* Yes, it is a vacation. Maybe not compared to UG, but compared to law associate or other professional jobs (or rigorous PhD programs) it sure is.

NYstate
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Re: Leaving 6-figure job for Law School? Am I crazy?

Postby NYstate » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:30 am

kartelite wrote:
Frozinite wrote:
After talking to many people and several friends working in law, the consensus is: "if you're making enough money to be comfortable, do what you want to do. Money's not going to be a problem in your life. You will have way more than you'll know what to do with, in either option, trust me". Because of those comments, I decided to take the leap to go to school.


Good on you.

This is an aspect many people who chastise others for giving up six-figure salaries fail to realize: we don't make that kind of money (at a relatively young age and without forking over professional school tuition) by dumb luck, it's because we have desirable skills that others demand, and we already know how to play the game. Worst case, it's a 3-year vacation* before returning to what we were doing before. Barring some debilitating injury I know I'll never have a problem in the job market (last month turned down an unsolicited six-figure consulting offer w/ signing bonus and two semiannual performance bonuses [from a guy I know, but formal offer letter and all]), and I'm quite confident of my ability to freelance/succeed in entrepreneurial ventures anyway. I'd imagine others in my position applying to LS are equally as "marketable," and none of us really care about what happens if BigLaw/clerkship/academia doesn't work out, since option B is back to finance or 140k in corporate development, not 65k at a regional firm. Follow your heart, bro, like Steve Jobs said.

* Yes, it is a vacation. Maybe not compared to UG, but compared to law associate or other professional jobs (or rigorous PhD programs) it sure is.


LOL. At worst law school will be a disillusioning experience setting you back hundreds of thousands of dollars and years on your career. People here aren't jealous of your earning potential, we've been to law school and have the jobs and the career that you are talking about and we see this as a huge mistake.

I'm positive that Steve Jobs wasn't thinking about people wanting to be a cog in the corporate finance wheel when he said people should follow their dreams.

I don't think you will find whatever it is you are seeking by going to law school.

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patogordo
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Re: Leaving 6-figure job for Law School? Am I crazy?

Postby patogordo » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:44 am

lolololol

bro 3 year law school detour is exactly the same as Steve jobs getting fired from Apple and starting NeXt how can you not see that

rad lulz
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Re: Leaving 6-figure job for Law School? Am I crazy?

Postby rad lulz » Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:15 am

In this time of uncertainty surrounding law school outcomes and the uncertainty of the availability of associate positions at typical big law firms going forward, I probably wouldn't go to law school if you were making 100k+

Sorry if that's your dream it's just the way of the world right now

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paglababa
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Re: Leaving 6-figure job for Law School? Am I crazy?

Postby paglababa » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:15 am

rad lulz wrote:In this time of uncertainty surrounding law school outcomes and the uncertainty of the availability of associate positions at typical big law firms going forward, I probably wouldn't go to law school if you were making 100k+

Sorry if that's your dream it's just the way of the world right now


lolol what if you're a 85 k 40 hour/wk n00b chasing that prefstige.

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dabigchina
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Re: Leaving 6-figure job for Law School? Am I crazy?

Postby dabigchina » Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:28 am

You will not be working 60 hours a week if you want to be partner track in NYC. I work in big4 so it might not be an apples to apples comparison but you don't get to bill every hour you spend at the office. 50-60 billable a week translates to about 70-80 actual hours worked. Granted big4 accounting is notorious for pressuring associates to underreport time to make margins look better (yay bullshit metrics). So I could be talking out of my ass.

Pardon the typos cause ipad.

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patogordo
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Re: Leaving 6-figure job for Law School? Am I crazy?

Postby patogordo » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:18 am

dabigchina wrote:You will not be working 60 hours a week if you want to be partner track in NYC. I work in big4 so it might not be an apples to apples comparison but you don't get to bill every hour you spend at the office. 50-60 billable a week translates to about 70-80 actual hours worked. Granted big4 accounting is notorious for pressuring associates to underreport time to make margins look better (yay bullshit metrics). So I could be talking out of my ass.

Pardon the typos cause ipad.

please, his business acumen is worth at least 20 hours a week. i'm sure clients would gladly pay a premium for work done by a sage and world-wise 29 year old associate.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Leaving 6-figure job for Law School? Am I crazy?

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:56 am

Three year JD/MBA programs at Penn & Chicago should result in options in both law & finance.

Easier to complete schooling while young, single & sporting a 175/3.85.

P.S. Only attend law school with a full tuition scholarship. Limit your applications to the Top 14 law schools. Apply to Stanford & Harvard so that you'll have leverage to negotiate for more money at the other T-14 law schools which don't offer a full scholarship initially.

Nevertheless, an MBA from an elite school is probably more valuable than a law degree in today's market. Penn, Chicago & Northwestern should be great joint-degree options for you.

And, no, you're not crazy for creating options when your current position is based on a 2 year contract & you have an expiring 175 LSAT score.

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dabigchina
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Re: Leaving 6-figure job for Law School? Am I crazy?

Postby dabigchina » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:00 pm

Also consider the fact that if you work in transactional law you are basically the bankers bitch. You work on their schedule because their services are much more valuable to the client. A major transaction might net 5 mil for the lawyers but 20 mil for the bankers. This is a pretty good approximation of how much clients value their services

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Naja
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Re: Leaving 6-figure job for Law School? Am I crazy?

Postby Naja » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:29 pm

I am in the six figure club too, and completely want to go to law school to change my path in life as being an engineer makes me feel like a slug.

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lawschool22
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Re: Leaving 6-figure job for Law School? Am I crazy?

Postby lawschool22 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:03 pm

dabigchina wrote:You will not be working 60 hours a week if you want to be partner track in NYC. I work in big4 so it might not be an apples to apples comparison but you don't get to bill every hour you spend at the office. 50-60 billable a week translates to about 70-80 actual hours worked. Granted big4 accounting is notorious for pressuring associates to underreport time to make margins look better (yay bullshit metrics). So I could be talking out of my ass.

Pardon the typos cause ipad.


Just wanted to chime in to say that I feel your pain. :D

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paglababa
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Re: Leaving 6-figure job for Law School? Am I crazy?

Postby paglababa » Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:07 pm

lawschool22 wrote:
dabigchina wrote:You will not be working 60 hours a week if you want to be partner track in NYC. I work in big4 so it might not be an apples to apples comparison but you don't get to bill every hour you spend at the office. 50-60 billable a week translates to about 70-80 actual hours worked. Granted big4 accounting is notorious for pressuring associates to underreport time to make margins look better (yay bullshit metrics). So I could be talking out of my ass.

Pardon the typos cause ipad.


Just wanted to chime in to say that I feel your pain. :D


I feel bad for all of the loling I did whenever I went home and the auditors continued to chug away through the night.
But then I remembered all of the things they kept asking for throughout the day.

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lawschool22
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Re: Leaving 6-figure job for Law School? Am I crazy?

Postby lawschool22 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:13 pm

paglababa wrote:
lawschool22 wrote:
dabigchina wrote:You will not be working 60 hours a week if you want to be partner track in NYC. I work in big4 so it might not be an apples to apples comparison but you don't get to bill every hour you spend at the office. 50-60 billable a week translates to about 70-80 actual hours worked. Granted big4 accounting is notorious for pressuring associates to underreport time to make margins look better (yay bullshit metrics). So I could be talking out of my ass.

Pardon the typos cause ipad.


Just wanted to chime in to say that I feel your pain. :D


I feel bad for all of the loling I did whenever I went home and the auditors continued to chug away through the night.
But then I remembered all of the things they kept asking for throughout the day.


Lol believe me the auditors want to no more be asking those questions than you guys want to be answering them. Fewer questions are mutually beneficial. :D

NanaP
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Re: Leaving 6-figure job for Law School? Am I crazy?

Postby NanaP » Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:40 pm

JD/MBA is the way to go. I believe MBA programs will take your LSAT score too....

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dabigchina
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Re: Leaving 6-figure job for Law School? Am I crazy?

Postby dabigchina » Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:51 pm

lawschool22 wrote:
paglababa wrote:
lawschool22 wrote:
dabigchina wrote:You will not be working 60 hours a week if you want to be partner track in NYC. I work in big4 so it might not be an apples to apples comparison but you don't get to bill every hour you spend at the office. 50-60 billable a week translates to about 70-80 actual hours worked. Granted big4 accounting is notorious for pressuring associates to underreport time to make margins look better (yay bullshit metrics). So I could be talking out of my ass.

Pardon the typos cause ipad.


Just wanted to chime in to say that I feel your pain. :D


I feel bad for all of the loling I did whenever I went home and the auditors continued to chug away through the night.
But then I remembered all of the things they kept asking for throughout the day.


Lol believe me the auditors want to no more be asking those questions than you guys want to be answering them. Fewer questions are mutually beneficial. :D


Amen to that. My managers don't see it that way though...

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paglababa
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Re: Leaving 6-figure job for Law School? Am I crazy?

Postby paglababa » Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:12 pm

Well at least you know your CPA licenses will be pretty swagful when you're trying to get into transactional law...

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lawschool22
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Re: Leaving 6-figure job for Law School? Am I crazy?

Postby lawschool22 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:44 pm

paglababa wrote:Well at least you know your CPA licenses will be pretty swagful when you're trying to get into transactional law...


I'm hoping. I've heard mixed messages on that, but I doubt it hurts.

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dabigchina
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Re: Leaving 6-figure job for Law School? Am I crazy?

Postby dabigchina » Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:59 am

Girlfriend had almost identical background with no cpa certification. She outperformed her grades and school this last oci in a very competitive market. As far as it helping u on the job probably not so much.

LSBanker
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Re: Leaving 6-figure job for Law School? Am I crazy?

Postby LSBanker » Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:51 pm

dabigchina wrote:Also consider the fact that if you work in transactional law you are basically the bankers bitch. You work on their schedule because their services are much more valuable to the client. A major transaction might net 5 mil for the lawyers but 20 mil for the bankers. This is a pretty good approximation of how much clients value their services


As I said in the first post, I've always had an interest in law and I don't find the idea of being a career banker very appealing. I know that at the Partner/Managing Director level, it's all based on bringing in business, but a big difference for me is that banking involves endless pitching of ridiculous half-baked ideas to clients. To give you an idea, I worked till 4AM each night of a weekend (Friday, Saturday and Sunday) working on a pitch for a state-owned foreign company to purchase a multinational US-based corporation. A freshman english major could tell you that that idea was going nowhere, but my MD insisted that we have the pitch ready for the company by 8AM on Monday. While biglaw may be a lot of bitchwork, at least everything you're doing is real work. I'm hoping that law will have (marginally) better hours and that I'll be more interested in the work.

I'm also looking at a non-NYC major market. Biglaw will always be a lot of work, but I've heard things are more relaxed in general there.




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