KJD and/or Weak Softs Thread

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )

What schools have you gotten in to?

Stanford
22
4%
Harvard
38
7%
Chicago
35
7%
Columbia
42
8%
NYU
68
13%
UVA/Penn
57
11%
Berkeley/Michigan
67
13%
Duke
85
16%
Cornell
39
7%
Georgetown
71
14%
 
Total votes: 524

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Attax
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Re: KJD and/or Weak Softs Thread

Postby Attax » Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:27 pm

drawstring wrote:Also, I've asked this question a few times and gotten different responses. If someone graduates in May, starts full time work immediately, then applies in September, is that a KJD or someone who has about a year and a half of WE (because that's what it will be upon matriculation).


I consider >1 year being at least some WE

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mazer
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Re: KJD and/or Weak Softs Thread

Postby mazer » Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:35 pm

KJD here as well. It's been an interesting, and pleasantly surprising, cycle since I'm a February retake. I'm a "reverse splitter" too so it's been all kind of anxiety.

Attax wrote:
drawstring wrote:Also, I've asked this question a few times and gotten different responses. If someone graduates in May, starts full time work immediately, then applies in September, is that a KJD or someone who has about a year and a half of WE (because that's what it will be upon matriculation).


I consider >1 year being at least some WE


That would be how I would characterize it, too.

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Quest4Knowledge
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Re: KJD and/or Weak Softs Thread

Postby Quest4Knowledge » Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:48 am

Attax wrote:
drawstring wrote:Also, I've asked this question a few times and gotten different responses. If someone graduates in May, starts full time work immediately, then applies in September, is that a KJD or someone who has about a year and a half of WE (because that's what it will be upon matriculation).

I consider >1 year being at least some WE

I agree, but from an admissions perspective - when draw applies, the office will only see that they've been working since May. So May-Fall is all the office has to go on, even if by the time we start school it'll be >1 year.

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dnptan
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Re: KJD and/or Weak Softs Thread

Postby dnptan » Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:11 am

Hey guys, I've met a few K-JDs applying for law school, some even getting into Yale. Both on and off the TLS forum, here's a list of softs I've seen from K-JDs, and how I would rank them. I also included K-MA/PhD-JDs (never left academia), those softs with an asterisk (*). If there is no asterisk, that means I've known people with those softs in undergrad. Please feel free to add/comment on the list.

IMO for KJDs applying for the T14:

Insignificant Softs
- Club Membership
- Minor
- Part-time Work
- Campus Work
- Low-level Honor Societies (NSCS et. al)

Below-Average Softs
- Study abroad
- Ivy league degree (or Stanford, MIT etc.)
- STEM
- Low leadership position (Secretary, auditor)
- Teaching Assistant
- Graduating Early
- Multiple Minors
- Senior Thesis (As required by program)
- Mock Trial
- Internships

Average Softs
- Honors Thesis [Added by manillabay]
- Prestigious internships (Capitol Hill, etc)
- Bi or Tri-lingual
- Double Major
- College Athlete
- High leadership position (VP, P)
- Conference Publication
- Mid-level honor societies (Tau Beta Pi, Phi Kappa Phi)

Above-Average Softs
- International Competitor (Debate, Maths etc.)
- High-profile internships (Obama, Trayvon Martin case)
- Master's Degree*
- Published Author
- Quad or Polylingual
- Triple Major ++
- Phi Beta Kappa
- Starting a company
- College-level lecturer
- Journal Publication

Unique Softs
- PhD*
- Best-selling or renowned author*
- Starting a SUCCESSFUL company (Selling it for ~100,000+)
- Establishing an organization on or off-campus
- Establishing a new LASTING major
- Olympic athlete
- High-level Journal Publication (Nature, Harvard Law Review)
---

Note that a lot of people "bump up", that is consider their AVERAGE softs as ABOVE AVERAGE, because in the real world, they are above average. However, applying to the T14 means that you already ARE above average, so the curve shifts. This explains why 70% of applicants consider themselves "above average"
Last edited by dnptan on Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

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manillabay
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Re: KJD and/or Weak Softs Thread

Postby manillabay » Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:27 am

dnptan wrote:Hey guys, I've met a few K-JDs applying for law school, some even getting into Yale. Both on and off the TLS forum, here's a list of softs I've seen from K-JDs, and how I would rank them. I also included K-MA/PhD-JDs (never left academia), those softs with an asterisk (*). If there is no asterisk, that means I've known people with those softs in undergrad. Please feel free to add/comment on the list.

IMO for KJDs applying for the T14:

Insignificant Softs
- Club Membership
- Minor
- Part-time Work
- Campus Work
- Low-level Honor Societies (NSCS et. al)

Below-Average Softs
- Study abroad
- Ivy league degree (or Stanford, MIT etc.)
- STEM
- Low leadership position (Secretary, auditor)
- Teaching Assistant
- Graduating Early
- Multiple Minors
- Senior Thesis
- Mock Trial
- Internships

Average Softs
- Prestigious internships (Capitol Hill, etc)
- Bi or Tri-lingual
- Double Major
- College Athlete
- High leadership position (VP, P)
- Conference Publication
- Mid-level honor societies (Tau Beta Pi, Phi Kappa Phi)

Above-Average Softs
- International Competitor (Debate, Maths etc.)
- High-profile internships (Obama, Trayvon Martin case)
- Master's Degree*
- Published Author
- Quad or Polylingual
- Triple Major ++
- Phi Beta Kappa
- Starting a company
- College-level lecturer
- Journal Publication

Unique Softs
- PhD*
- Best-selling or renowned author*
- Starting a SUCCESSFUL company (Selling it for ~100,000+)
- Establishing an organization on or off-campus
- Establishing a new LASTING major
- Olympic athlete
- High-level Journal Publication (Nature, Harvard Law Review)
---

Note that a lot of people "bump up", that is consider their AVERAGE softs as ABOVE AVERAGE, because in the real world, they are above average. However, applying to the T14 means that you already ARE above average, so the curve shifts. This explains why 70% of applicants consider themselves "above average"


How is a thesis a below average soft? I think writing a thesis is 10x more substantial than making it in phi kappa phi....And what kjd do you know that is an Olympic athlete?

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dnptan
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Re: KJD and/or Weak Softs Thread

Postby dnptan » Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:35 am

manillabay wrote:
dnptan wrote:Hey guys, ... "above average"


How is a thesis a below average soft? I think writing a thesis is 10x more substantial than making it in phi kappa phi....And what kjd do you know that is an Olympic athlete?


Sorry, I meant undergrad thesis as required by the program. An honors thesis is in the average category - let me fix that. I know one who won a medal in Sochi.
Last edited by dnptan on Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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drawstring
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Re: KJD and/or Weak Softs Thread

Postby drawstring » Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:52 am

Quest4Knowledge wrote:
Attax wrote:
drawstring wrote:Also, I've asked this question a few times and gotten different responses. If someone graduates in May, starts full time work immediately, then applies in September, is that a KJD or someone who has about a year and a half of WE (because that's what it will be upon matriculation).

I consider >1 year being at least some WE

I agree, but from an admissions perspective - when draw applies, the office will only see that they've been working since May. So May-Fall is all the office has to go on, even if by the time we start school it'll be >1 year.


Ya, that's the issue. I've had a few people, including Spivey, say that I'll be looked at as someone with a year or more of WE, which makes sense as that's what I'd have at matriculation and a K-JD wouldn't. Others have said that they'll look at it as if I've had just a few months though, because that's what it will be when I apply. It makes a big difference, especially for someone whose biggest weakness is probably their WE; it would suck reapplying with no real boost to my application.

Also, if anyone is willing to rate my softs via PM please let me know :D

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: KJD and/or Weak Softs Thread

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:47 pm

.
Last edited by Mack.Hambleton on Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Iroh
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Re: KJD and/or Weak Softs Thread

Postby Iroh » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:11 am

Is a double major really an "average" soft? Maybe I just suffer from low self-esteem, but I don't think my double major is really as impressive as someone who is bi or tri-lingual.

Also, I think "consistent volunteer work" should be listed as a separate soft. Not sure where to put it though, maybe as "average".

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milkandcheerios
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Re: KJD and/or Weak Softs Thread

Postby milkandcheerios » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:23 am

james.bungles wrote:checking in here as a super K-JD (graduating in three years)


same here.

I wonder if it was actually a bad thing to graduate early, I feel like ad comms will assume that we're young and immature. Oh well....I saved myself a whole year's worth of tuition and living expenses so there's that.

hibye
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Re: KJD and/or Weak Softs Thread

Postby hibye » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:25 am

I'm a KJD that was accepted to Yale! Maybe slightly above average softs, slightly above average numbers for Yale. Can answer any other questions, if anyone is interested!

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manillabay
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Re: KJD and/or Weak Softs Thread

Postby manillabay » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:26 am

hibye wrote:I'm a KJD that was accepted to Yale! Maybe slightly above average softs, slightly above average numbers for Yale. Can answer any other questions, if anyone is interested!



What type of UG university

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milkandcheerios
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Re: KJD and/or Weak Softs Thread

Postby milkandcheerios » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:27 am

.

El Principe
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Re: KJD and/or Weak Softs Thread

Postby El Principe » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:48 am

I just pray my lack of tremendous work experience doesn't railroad me when it comes time for OCI.

I graduated a half a semester early, and have a relatively sophisticated job considering I have a BS degree, but I'm sure my WE still won't be enough seeing as I can't get a job as a CPA or engineer without a relevant degree, so I mean, what can I do.

Have to get top grades and put lipstick on a pig to make it sound better than what it is.

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PotenC
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Re: KJD and/or Weak Softs Thread

Postby PotenC » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:17 am

I think the value of softs are better quantified when placed in context of the specific applicant. For example, an entry-level job might be construed to be completely unremarkable on the resume of a student who's from a prestigious undergrad, who's had inexhaustible opportunities day in and day out. This same entry-level position might just reflect extremely well on the resume of an applicant who hails from a typical state university with a nigh nonexistent career services department. Just my two cents.

Image

El Principe
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Re: KJD and/or Weak Softs Thread

Postby El Principe » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:41 am

PotenC wrote:I think the value of softs are better quantified when placed in context of the specific applicant. For example, an entry-level job might be construed to be completely unremarkable on the resume of a student who's from a prestigious undergrad, who's had inexhaustible opportunities day in and day out. This same entry-level position might just reflect extremely well on the resume of an applicant who hails from a typical state university with a nigh nonexistent career services department. Just my two cents.

Image


Hmmmmmmmm

This is true... I mean, even if people don't necessarily see it this way, this is probably a great way to spin things if and when the topic of work experience comes up in an interview.

gta
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Re: KJD and/or Weak Softs Thread

Postby gta » Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:28 am

I had a hunch earlier in the cycle that Duke was bucking the "anti K-JD" trend, and the poll results might bear that out. Interesting to see the responses there.

hibye
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Re: KJD and/or Weak Softs Thread

Postby hibye » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:34 am

manillabay wrote:
hibye wrote:I'm a KJD that was accepted to Yale! Maybe slightly above average softs, slightly above average numbers for Yale. Can answer any other questions, if anyone is interested!



What type of UG university


top 3 university

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FanOfPosner
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Re: KJD and/or Weak Softs Thread

Postby FanOfPosner » Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:10 pm

I'm one of those 1 year of work experience people. (To be fair, it'll be more like 13 months.) I'm not sure that it helped me in admissions, since I'm in consulting which is completely standard. I'm sure the adcomms see a ton of my exact work experience. But I do think it'll help in OCI.

Kimikho
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Re: KJD and/or Weak Softs Thread

Postby Kimikho » Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:20 pm

Duke probably has more responses because this thread is somewhat old, and when I put up the survey a lot of people had heard from Duke because of the PT app.

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dnptan
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Re: KJD and/or Weak Softs Thread

Postby dnptan » Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:20 pm

Iroh wrote:Is a double major really an "average" soft? Maybe I just suffer from low self-esteem, but I don't think my double major is really as impressive as someone who is bi or tri-lingual.

Also, I think "consistent volunteer work" should be listed as a separate soft. Not sure where to put it though, maybe as "average".


It's average insofar as it takes effort to achieve and not everyone can achieve it. However, the quality of that double major is very variable. For instance, a double major in English and Philosophy is very common, and many universities offer it as a staple. A Double major in Physics and Philosophy, while also offered as a staple, is much less common and thus more impressive. A double major in Physics and Business Administration is fairly unique and shows a lot about the candidate's background, interest, and drive.

Likewise, some languages are more similar than others. Someone can be born to a bi-lingual+ family, which isn't that impressive (I'm one of those). Then there are those who learn a second language, but it's not that far-removed from English (E.g. most languages which use a latin script). Finally, there are those remarkable individuals who have mastered English and some other language which has a completely different structure (Chinese, Arabic, Russian).

This is what makes softs hard to classify. Softs rarely have pure merit - they are taken as part of the whole, just like the rest of your application. The way I classified things is less in the difficulty of achieving the soft, but moreso the rarity of the soft.

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shifty_eyed
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Re: KJD and/or Weak Softs Thread

Postby shifty_eyed » Sat Apr 05, 2014 4:28 am

If you really think being KJD is holding you back, it's the easiest thing in your whole application to fix.

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LSATneurotic
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Re: KJD and/or Weak Softs Thread

Postby LSATneurotic » Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:52 pm

Checking in! Super weak softs, tentative fit for your definition of KJD.

nopenottoday
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Re: KJD and/or Weak Softs Thread

Postby nopenottoday » Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:58 pm

I know this is an old thread but I thought it would be worth it to bump. It seems like there's little to no support for KJDs. I've never really doubted myself until looking at this forum, and even then the only people saying to take a few years off are the ones who have done it. The couple of KJDs I've talked to say that they wish they took a year off, but none of them say that they would strongly encourage it or that they absolutely regret their decision not to. Is anyone else starting to doubt themselves? :|

Instinctive
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Re: KJD and/or Weak Softs Thread

Postby Instinctive » Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:54 pm

nopenottoday wrote:I know this is an old thread but I thought it would be worth it to bump. It seems like there's little to no support for KJDs. I've never really doubted myself until looking at this forum, and even then the only people saying to take a few years off are the ones who have done it. The couple of KJDs I've talked to say that they wish they took a year off, but none of them say that they would strongly encourage it or that they absolutely regret their decision not to. Is anyone else starting to doubt themselves? :|


I got into all but one school I applied to, with serious money at the ones that offered it. Have no regrets about going straight through.

I also think people overestimate the importance softs, although it's possible I underestimate my own (those who know me would say that's unlikely, as I certainly do not lack for confidence). I don't think most of my "softs" count as anything special. I say that because lots of other people at the UG I went to also had them, which means people at all the UGs nationwide probably have them, and many of those UGs have significantly stronger academic reputations.

I did, however, have a 3.98/179 GPA/LSAT profile. If you're a KJD, just kill it on the tests and you'll be fine.


ETA: And when you actually start, the complaining all the WE people do about having to re-learn how to study and such puts you at an advantage early on. It doesn't really do much grades-wise, but it does help with just being happier and your days being not as tough while going through 1L.




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