SoCal law schools with bad grades but good LSATs

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
amherst
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:18 am

SoCal law schools with bad grades but good LSATs

Postby amherst » Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:40 am

Hi, all. I'm new here, so don't flame me too badly. Anyway, I'm interested in going to law school in Southern California, preferably in or around Los Angeles. My undergrad transcripts suck. Call it a 2.5 GPA. Fortunately, my LSATs are pretty solid. High 160s. Realistically, which schools should I be looking at? Can I get into Pepperdine? Loyola? San Diego? Where else should I apply? Southwestern? I'm fortunate in that my family can pay most (but not all) of my tuition, so debt isn't a humongous problem for me. Also, how feasible is it to transfer? Thanks in advance.
Last edited by amherst on Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Dr.Zer0
Posts: 1030
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:11 pm

Re: SoCal law schools with bad grades but good LSATS

Postby Dr.Zer0 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:48 am

amherst wrote:Hi, all. I'm new here, so don't flame me too badly. Anyway, I'm interested in going to law school in Southern California, preferably in or around Los Angeles. My undergrad transcripts suck. Call it a 2.5 GPA. Fortunately, my LSATs are pretty solid. High 160s. Realistically, which schools I should be looking at? Can I get into Pepperdine? Loyola? San Diego? Where else should I apply? Southwestern? I'm fortunate in that my family can pay most (but not all) of my tuition, so debt isn't a humongous problem for me. Also, how feasible is it to transfer? Thanks in advance.


The only law schools worth attending in southern California are UCLA and USC, which are gpa whores. Unfortunately with your GPA you won't get either. The schools you listed are not good options and neither is the thought of transferring after 1L. I'll let others chime in on what you should do instead.

User avatar
cotiger
Posts: 1648
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:49 pm

Re: SoCal law schools with bad grades but good LSATs

Postby cotiger » Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:06 am

Aim for Irvine. Low debt takes out much of the risk, and it has an upside potential that the other non-USC/UCLA schools do not.

User avatar
Nucky
Posts: 770
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:26 pm

Re: SoCal law schools with bad grades but good LSATS

Postby Nucky » Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:40 am

Dr.Zer0 wrote:
amherst wrote:Hi, all. I'm new here, so don't flame me too badly. Anyway, I'm interested in going to law school in Southern California, preferably in or around Los Angeles. My undergrad transcripts suck. Call it a 2.5 GPA. Fortunately, my LSATs are pretty solid. High 160s. Realistically, which schools I should be looking at? Can I get into Pepperdine? Loyola? San Diego? Where else should I apply? Southwestern? I'm fortunate in that my family can pay most (but not all) of my tuition, so debt isn't a humongous problem for me. Also, how feasible is it to transfer? Thanks in advance.


The only law schools worth attending in southern California are UCLA and USC, which are gpa whores. Unfortunately with your GPA you won't get either. The schools you listed are not good options and neither is the thought of transferring after 1L. I'll let others chime in on what you should do instead.


It really is too bad that they are GPA whores. I would love to attend LS in SoCal. Unfortunately, I am splitter, and splitters do not appear welcome at either USC or UCLA. :evil:

User avatar
ArtistOfManliness
Posts: 540
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:56 pm

Re: SoCal law schools with bad grades but good LSATs

Postby ArtistOfManliness » Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:52 am

This isnt the most TCR of responses, but I have a good feeling about you. You should go to whatever LS in SoCal you want (ideally any if they give you a full ride with that GPA) and gun the shit out of the first year, be #1 in your class and transfer to USC/UCLA. It'll be rough, and if you eff up your grades again, you'll be SOL and likely having wasted thousands of dollars, but its all based on how confident you are in your ability to nail law school. Combining a high LSAT with stellar LS grades will let transfer schools now what is up. This advice only applies if you completely and totally slacked off in college. If you tried AT ALL, you should ignore it all cuz you're not gonna be #1 in your LS class, regardless of how TTT-y of a LS you go to.

User avatar
Magical Trevor
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:10 pm

Re: SoCal law schools with bad grades but good LSATs

Postby Magical Trevor » Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:54 am

All of the good California schools, USC/UCLA and up, are GPA focused to the point that a 2.5 would only get you in if you were somehow amazing. Maybe an Olympic gold medalist capable of curing cancer with your tears of joy at being accepted...

Moneytrees
Posts: 646
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:41 pm

Re: SoCal law schools with bad grades but good LSATS

Postby Moneytrees » Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:04 am

Dr.Zer0 wrote:
amherst wrote:Hi, all. I'm new here, so don't flame me too badly. Anyway, I'm interested in going to law school in Southern California, preferably in or around Los Angeles. My undergrad transcripts suck. Call it a 2.5 GPA. Fortunately, my LSATs are pretty solid. High 160s. Realistically, which schools I should be looking at? Can I get into Pepperdine? Loyola? San Diego? Where else should I apply? Southwestern? I'm fortunate in that my family can pay most (but not all) of my tuition, so debt isn't a humongous problem for me. Also, how feasible is it to transfer? Thanks in advance.


The only law schools worth attending in southern California are UCLA and USC, which are gpa whores. Unfortunately with your GPA you won't get either. The schools you listed are not good options and neither is the thought of transferring after 1L. I'll let others chime in on what you should do instead.



I wouldn't say USD is a terrible choice, IF you can get a decent scholarship. Check out their employment score on Law School Transparency. From what I recall, USD's score wasn't great but passable.

daryldixon
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:55 am

Re: SoCal law schools with bad grades but good LSATs

Postby daryldixon » Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:05 am

Do you have an actual LSAT score yet? If so what is it?

Moneytrees
Posts: 646
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:41 pm

Re: SoCal law schools with bad grades but good LSATs

Postby Moneytrees » Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:13 am

amherst wrote:Hi, all. I'm new here, so don't flame me too badly. Anyway, I'm interested in going to law school in Southern California, preferably in or around Los Angeles. My undergrad transcripts suck. Call it a 2.5 GPA. Fortunately, my LSATs are pretty solid. High 160s. Realistically, which schools I should be looking at? Can I get into Pepperdine? Loyola? San Diego? Where else should I apply? Southwestern? I'm fortunate in that my family can pay most (but not all) of my tuition, so debt isn't a humongous problem for me. Also, how feasible is it to transfer? Thanks in advance.


I know you've probably been told this before, but going to law school is a huge commitment. Your low GPA is a big red flag. Now, there are a million reasons why you didn't do well in college, and I'm not here to tell you that you aren't cut out for law school. If you are truly passionate about law and think that you have what it takes, then by all means apply (scoring in the high 160's is impressive).

With such a low GPA, UCLA and USC are not realistic options. UC Irvine is a long shot as well. But I would say you have a decent shot at schools like Loyola, Pepperdine and San Diego. California Western is another school in SD, but I would stay away from that one (as well as Thomas Jefferson).

amherst
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:18 am

Re: SoCal law schools with bad grades but good LSATs

Postby amherst » Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:15 am

daryldixon wrote:Do you have an actual LSAT score yet? If so what is it?


167.

Thanks for the advice, everyone. Appreciate it.

User avatar
ManoftheHour
Posts: 3402
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:03 pm

Re: SoCal law schools with bad grades but good LSATs

Postby ManoftheHour » Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:18 am

Fuck that man.

Retake.

Get 170+. You're at a 167. You're so close already.

Go to NU or ED UVA.

Beast it.

Land a job in SoCal.

drevo
Posts: 280
Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:49 pm

Re: SoCal law schools with bad grades but good LSATS

Postby drevo » Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:50 am

Moneytrees wrote:I wouldn't say USD is a terrible choice, IF you can get a decent scholarship. Check out their employment score on Law School Transparency. From what I recall, USD's score wasn't great but passable.



Image

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=sandiego

I beg to differ that 47% is passable. Sucks because as a current resident of San Diego there is nowhere in the world I would rather live for the rest of my life, but it is what it is.

User avatar
twenty
Posts: 3153
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:17 pm

Re: SoCal law schools with bad grades but good LSATs

Postby twenty » Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:00 pm

ManoftheHour wrote:Fuck that man.

Retake.

Get 170+. You're at a 167. You're so close already.

Go to NU or ED UVA.

Beast it.

Land a job in SoCal.


This. Three years of your life in Charlottesville (if you're like 2.9 - 3.1) or Chicago (if you're <2.8 ) and your parents are paying for it? Do that.

Moneytrees
Posts: 646
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:41 pm

Re: SoCal law schools with bad grades but good LSATs

Postby Moneytrees » Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:11 pm

I would argue that 47 percent is passable. It's not good, but it's not terrible. Have you checked out the employment date for schools like California Western and even Chapman? Compared to those schools, 47 is actually a fairly good score. Going to USD gives you a decent chance at getting a job as a lawyer- what else can you expect if you only have a 2.5 GPA?

User avatar
twenty
Posts: 3153
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:17 pm

Re: SoCal law schools with bad grades but good LSATs

Postby twenty » Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:15 pm

Moneytrees wrote:what else can you expect if you only have a 2.5 GPA?


A 56% chance of biglaw/A3 clerkship, and a 75% chance overall of being an attorney from Northwestern.

Moneytrees
Posts: 646
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:41 pm

Re: SoCal law schools with bad grades but good LSATs

Postby Moneytrees » Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:53 pm

twenty wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:what else can you expect if you only have a 2.5 GPA?


A 56% chance of biglaw/A3 clerkship, and a 75% chance overall of being an attorney from Northwestern.



Do you have any tangible data that supports the contention that Northwestern is open to admitting students with 2.5 GPA? Using the law school predictor tool, you would have to score well into the 170's to even have an outside shot at Northwestern with such a GPA. My roommate last year was rejected from Northwestern with a 166 and a 3.3.

Anyways, my point is that although USD and some other lower ranked schools in California (Pepperdine and Hastings) may not offer exceptional employment opportunities, but they will give you a solid chance at being a lawyer. In my opinion, if you can get a decent scholarship at those schools, or if your family is willing to help finance the cost of your legal education, it is worth attending. With your GPA and LSAT, those are your best bets in California.

However, if your GPA limits you to schools such as Chapman, Southwestern, Thomas Jefferson, California Western, etc., then you should seriously reconsider retaking the LSAT and applying again next cycle.

User avatar
twenty
Posts: 3153
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:17 pm

Re: SoCal law schools with bad grades but good LSATs

Postby twenty » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:07 pm

Moneytrees wrote:
twenty wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:what else can you expect if you only have a 2.5 GPA?


A 56% chance of biglaw/A3 clerkship, and a 75% chance overall of being an attorney from Northwestern.


Do you have any tangible data that supports the contention that Northwestern is open to admitting students with 2.5 GPA?


Yes.

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/geyser21

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/aroquentin

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/luukaas

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/splittersdilemma

Moneytrees
Posts: 646
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:41 pm

Re: SoCal law schools with bad grades but good LSATs

Postby Moneytrees » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:33 pm

twenty wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:
twenty wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:what else can you expect if you only have a 2.5 GPA?


A 56% chance of biglaw/A3 clerkship, and a 75% chance overall of being an attorney from Northwestern.


Do you have any tangible data that supports the contention that Northwestern is open to admitting students with 2.5 GPA?


Yes.

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/geyser21

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/aroquentin

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/luukaas

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/splittersdilemma


Go to Law school predictor. With a 174 and a 2.5, you have less than a 13 chance at Northwestern. Our fellow TLS user has a 167. It's not rocket science, dude. His chances at a T14 are slim to none with that low of a GPA.

User avatar
ManoftheHour
Posts: 3402
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:03 pm

Re: SoCal law schools with bad grades but good LSATs

Postby ManoftheHour » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:49 pm

Lol, lawschoolpredicTTTor.

It's a different climate dude. Much of that data is irrelevant because there are now fewer applicants (especially applicants with high LSATs).

User avatar
Dr.Zer0
Posts: 1030
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:11 pm

Re: SoCal law schools with bad grades but good LSATs

Postby Dr.Zer0 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:50 pm

Moneytrees wrote: Go to Law school predictor. With a 174 and a 2.5, you have less than a 13 chance at Northwestern. Our fellow TLS user has a 167. It's not rocket science, dude. His chances at a T14 are slim to none with that low of a GPA.


You are clearly new here. Those profiles are from actual people who got into T-14 schools with low GPAs but high LSATs. Law School Predictor is not that credible. Listen to twenty.

User avatar
twenty
Posts: 3153
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:17 pm

Re: SoCal law schools with bad grades but good LSATs

Postby twenty » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:58 pm

Law school predictor is notoriously bad at predicting splitter outcomes. A 172+ and a 2.5 should give him a 50/50 shot at NU, and a 175~ will probably get him in.

I don't really get what your agenda is, here. I gave you empirical evidence of NU admitting 2.5s and lower, and you're telling me... what, that a less than 50/50 shot at being employed as an attorney is "passable?" Furthermore, Pepperdine (and I believe Hastings) puts stipulations on their scholarships to where if you end up outside a certain x% of your class, you lose your scholarship.

OP's options are:

1) Not going to law school. Ask parents for the money they would have spent on law school tuition as three installments of home payments.
2) Retaking the LSAT and going to Northwestern
3) Going to a California school, hopefully on a full ride (so as to only waste your time rather than time and money), having a sub-20% chance of getting a job that made that experience worthwhile.

Hmm...

EDIT> I missed the part where you're new. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're misinformed rather than actually attempting to sabotage OP's life.

Moneytrees
Posts: 646
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:41 pm

Re: SoCal law schools with bad grades but good LSATs

Postby Moneytrees » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:27 pm

twenty wrote:Law school predictor is notoriously bad at predicting splitter outcomes. A 172+ and a 2.5 should give him a 50/50 shot at NU, and a 175~ will probably get him in.

I don't really get what your agenda is, here. I gave you empirical evidence of NU admitting 2.5s and lower, and you're telling me... what, that a less than 50/50 shot at being employed as an attorney is "passable?" Furthermore, Pepperdine (and I believe Hastings) puts stipulations on their scholarships to where if you end up outside a certain x% of your class, you lose your scholarship.

OP's options are:

1) Not going to law school. Ask parents for the money they would have spent on law school tuition as three installments of home payments.
2) Retaking the LSAT and going to Northwestern
3) Going to a California school, hopefully on a full ride (so as to only waste your time rather than time and money), having a sub-20% chance of getting a job that made that experience worthwhile.

Hmm...

EDIT> I missed the part where you're new. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're misinformed rather than actually attempting to sabotage OP's life.



I don't think I'm misinformed. I am well aware that law predictor is not necessarily accurate. But I think it gives a basic understanding of the range of scores you need to get on the LSAT to get into certain schools.

Regardless of the law school predictor tool, your arguments are based on the premise that the user wants to RETAKE the LSAT and is CAPABLE of scoring in the 170's. While you did show me a handful of cases of 170's with low GPA's getting into Northwestern, you have to remember that the user scored a 167. If the user thinks he would be able to score in the 170's, then obviously he should retake and apply again next cycle.

My agenda here, if I have any, is to state my belief that a school like USD is not a "terrible" law school, as you've stated. Based on employment stats, terrible schools in southern California are Chapman, Southwestern and Thomas Jefferson. In Nor Cal, Golden Gate would be a terrible choice. USD is not a terrible option for somebody who has a 2.5 GPA, unless, as you you've stated, the user is willing to retake the LSAT and thinks he has a credible shot at scoring in the 170's. Furthermore, I also made sure to say that that it's only a good idea to attend USD (or a comparable school such as Pepperdine) if it offers a decent scholarship. Paying sticker price at a school like USD would indeed be a terrible decision.

I'm sure the vast majority of people on these forums have excellent LSAT scores and great GPA's to boot. Not everyone is in that same category. While I think it's imperative to educate people as to the importance of not paying sticker price for schools like USD, it's also important to keep things in perspective. Not everyone asking for advice here wants to/can take a year off and retake the LSAT. While in theory your advice is good, it might not be applicable to the user. Going to USD might be a great opportunity for someone who didn't excel in college to become a lawyer.

Ps. My buddy goes to UC Irvine. His dad is paying for his law school degree, AS WELL as his house. Some people have it made :roll: Cost is not always a decisive factor for some people.

Moneytrees
Posts: 646
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:41 pm

Re: SoCal law schools with bad grades but good LSATs

Postby Moneytrees » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:33 pm

Dr.Zer0 wrote:
Moneytrees wrote: Go to Law school predictor. With a 174 and a 2.5, you have less than a 13 chance at Northwestern. Our fellow TLS user has a 167. It's not rocket science, dude. His chances at a T14 are slim to none with that low of a GPA.


You are clearly new here. Those profiles are from actual people who got into T-14 schools with low GPAs but high LSATs. Law School Predictor is not that credible. Listen to twenty.


How do you know if those profiles are real? I'm actually asking. Do you just figure people wouldn't take the time to lie about something like that? I don't know much about that website.

User avatar
Dr.Zer0
Posts: 1030
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:11 pm

Re: SoCal law schools with bad grades but good LSATs

Postby Dr.Zer0 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:16 pm

Moneytrees wrote:
Dr.Zer0 wrote:
Moneytrees wrote: Go to Law school predictor. With a 174 and a 2.5, you have less than a 13 chance at Northwestern. Our fellow TLS user has a 167. It's not rocket science, dude. His chances at a T14 are slim to none with that low of a GPA.


You are clearly new here. Those profiles are from actual people who got into T-14 schools with low GPAs but high LSATs. Law School Predictor is not that credible. Listen to twenty.


How do you know if those profiles are real? I'm actually asking. Do you just figure people wouldn't take the time to lie about something like that? I don't know much about that website.


You're right, some of them could be trolls. But some of the profiles could also be from TLS users. You can prbly cross reference some of the LSN profiles with TLS profiles and then follow that posters story. Or you can look up the previous app cycle threads for schools like UVA and NU and find splitters that got in. There's not that many trolls who are in it for the long 500+ post count.

Moneytrees
Posts: 646
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:41 pm

Re: SoCal law schools with bad grades but good LSATs

Postby Moneytrees » Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:35 pm

Dr.Zer0 wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:
Dr.Zer0 wrote:
Moneytrees wrote: Go to Law school predictor. With a 174 and a 2.5, you have less than a 13 chance at Northwestern. Our fellow TLS user has a 167. It's not rocket science, dude. His chances at a T14 are slim to none with that low of a GPA.


You are clearly new here. Those profiles are from actual people who got into T-14 schools with low GPAs but high LSATs. Law School Predictor is not that credible. Listen to twenty.


How do you know if those profiles are real? I'm actually asking. Do you just figure people wouldn't take the time to lie about something like that? I don't know much about that website.


You're right, some of them could be trolls. But some of the profiles could also be from TLS users. You can prbly cross reference some of the LSN profiles with TLS profiles and then follow that posters story. Or you can look up the previous app cycle threads for schools like UVA and NU and find splitters that got in. There's not that many trolls who are in it for the long 500+ post count.


Yeah that makes sense.




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], earldasquirel, xn3345 and 7 guests