does the rescission burden shift after matriculation?

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staples88
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does the rescission burden shift after matriculation?

Postby staples88 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:09 am

I read that after matriculation, you're officially a student so to kick you out, they need to follow the handbook's procedures. But between acceptance andu matriculation, you have no official ties to the school so they can just rescind your acceptance for any reason.

I answered all the questions on the app truthfully, but I don't want them to rescind me after finding out unflattering info.

Does it make a difference whether they find out before or after matriculation? When is matriculation anyway? August right before class?

jrd93
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Re: does the rescission burden shift after matriculation?

Postby jrd93 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:12 am

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Last edited by jrd93 on Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

staples88
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Re: does the rescission burden shift after matriculation?

Postby staples88 » Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:23 am

This isn't about omitting answers to cf questions. It's about them potentially learning of unflattering info that falls outside the cf questions

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ScottRiqui
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Re: does the rescission burden shift after matriculation?

Postby ScottRiqui » Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:31 am

staples88 wrote:This isn't about omitting answers to cf questions. It's about them potentially learning of unflattering info that falls outside the cf questions


I don't think schools are looking for reasons to "un-admit" applicants, and can't think of too many examples that are both outside the scope of C&F and worthy of rescinding an admittance.

daryldixon
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Re: does the rescission burden shift after matriculation?

Postby daryldixon » Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:38 am

staples88 wrote:This isn't about omitting answers to cf questions. It's about them potentially learning of unflattering info that falls outside the cf questions

Any omission or lie on an application is grounds for expulsion or the revocation of acceptance regardless of whether you matriculated or not.

notalobbyist
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Re: does the rescission burden shift after matriculation?

Postby notalobbyist » Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:44 am

Nobody is going to find out that you digitally added jabba the hut back into the original star wars. Whatever.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: does the rescission burden shift after matriculation?

Postby ScottRiqui » Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:12 am

daryldixon wrote:
staples88 wrote:This isn't about omitting answers to cf questions. It's about them potentially learning of unflattering info that falls outside the cf questions

Any omission or lie on an application is grounds for expulsion or the revocation of acceptance regardless of whether you matriculated or not.


I'm taking OP at his word that he's talking about stuff *outside* what the application asks for, or the C&F questions cover. I guess he's talking about things like the school finding out you used to be a stripper, or were a regular poster on Stormfront - shit like that.

I don't think you gain any additional formal protections once you've matriculated, but informally, since it's administratively easier to rescind an application than it is to expel a current student, I wonder if there could be something that would cause a school to do one but not the other. My gut instinct is still that schools aren't looking for reasons to turn someone away after granting them admission.

staples88
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Re: does the rescission burden shift after matriculation?

Postby staples88 » Fri Jan 10, 2014 6:39 pm

Without going into too much detail, let's just say the issue would be a cf issue for another school, but NOT for the school I'm concerned about (let's say school B). This school permits you to omit certain stuff.

So I provided completely truthful answers to school B's cf questions. The situation I fear is someone who
1. Doesn't like me
2. Knows about both my acceptance to school B and the issue at hand

Would call up school B and tell them.

So now I'm wondering if it's a race against time to matriculate because at that point the burden shifts from just sending a letter to undergoing the whole disciplinary process

03152016
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Re: does the rescission burden shift after matriculation?

Postby 03152016 » Fri Jan 10, 2014 6:50 pm

How serious are we talking about? Does this person have proof that you did the thing he/she is alleging you did?

Also, you're sure you covered your bases on the C&F disclosure? Wouldn't hurt to ask for clarification from the admissions office if there's any question.

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t-14orbust
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Re: does the rescission burden shift after matriculation?

Postby t-14orbust » Fri Jan 10, 2014 6:52 pm

I really want to know what this unflattering info is lol

Kimikho
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Re: does the rescission burden shift after matriculation?

Postby Kimikho » Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:48 pm

t-14orbust wrote:I really want to know what this unflattering info is lol

NYU-14
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Re: does the rescission burden shift after matriculation?

Postby NYU-14 » Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:02 am

Whatever it is, you'll probably have to disclose it for the bar.

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vuthy
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Re: does the rescission burden shift after matriculation?

Postby vuthy » Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:59 pm

Yeah thinking back to all the C&F's, the only thing I can recall being on some but not others was minor traffic stuff. So it's hard to imagine what kind of embarrassing info would fall outside of School X's C&F but inside for School Y.

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2014
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Re: does the rescission burden shift after matriculation?

Postby 2014 » Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:00 pm

You realize C&F has nothing to do with the individual school you attend, it is a 3rd party who does it for you to pass the bar. The idea that something is a C&F issue for one school but not another is just straight up wrong. Now I agree that some schools ask you to disclose different or more things, but that is just their interpretation of what will ultimately be required.

Now if for whatever reason you are convinced that it is no C&F issue you probably shouldn't disclose it at all. If you decide it is an issue, but you don't think it's something the school required (i.e. you didn't defraud them w/ your application) which sounds like your situation, then the first week or two of school your dean of students will likely send an email or make an announcement in an assembly that you should disclose things to them then. I would do it at that point. I can't really envision any realistic scenario where they kick you out.

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Vincent
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Re: does the rescission burden shift after matriculation?

Postby Vincent » Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:35 pm

Is this a school in Massachusetts you're worried about? I haven't taken a look at the C & F questions, but I believe some of the Boston-area schools don't ask for expunged/sealed incidents.

Captainunaccountable
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Re: does the rescission burden shift after matriculation?

Postby Captainunaccountable » Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:16 pm

Vincent wrote:Is this a school in Massachusetts you're worried about? I haven't taken a look at the C & F questions, but I believe some of the Boston-area schools don't ask for expunged/sealed incidents.


Yes, MA. schools can not ask for concealed/expunged records or arrests that didn't result in conviction (unless there was a Nolo contendere / plea deal). Yale & G-town are similar in this regard. Nonetheless, I don't quite understand how a school would find out about this record? Is someone trying to hunt you down OP?

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patfeeney
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Re: does the rescission burden shift after matriculation?

Postby patfeeney » Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:24 pm

Posting here because I was researching this precise topic for my Contracts course.

Interesting enough, there's a case going through the trial court level in New York, Choi v. Cornell University . Choi was a senior at Cornell who had attended for two years, after transferring in.

The University found out she had left a ten-year-old transcript from community college out of her application. But she withdrew from the college before receiving any grades, so her transcripts were all zeros.

Not only did Cornell kick her out, they also accused her of fraud and required she pay back all of her grant money - about a $100,000 bursar bill.

The school wouldn't let her appeal on campus, so now she's going through the court system.

In short, depending on where you are (New York, for example), if you go to a private school, you can have your admission rescinded, even after you have matriculated. In New York, if you go to a private university you aren't even granted Due Process rights if the college accuses you of fraud.

You can never be too careful with your application.

Kimikho
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Re: does the rescission burden shift after matriculation?

Postby Kimikho » Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:50 pm

Thank you for this important and relevant thread bump.




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