First Post. Admissions Dilemma. Please Help!

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jdandrea2
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First Post. Admissions Dilemma. Please Help!

Postby jdandrea2 » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:20 pm

This is my first post here but I've read quite a bit during my application process. I am a senior Philosophy major at a University in Ohio. I am planning on applying to Capital, Akron, Dayton and Ohio State. I have a 155 LSAT and I don't plan on taking it again so please don't advise me to do that. I go to the University of Akron right now and currently have a 3.6 GPA.

Before Akron, I went to a Community College. At this CC, I had to retake several classes. After two years at CC i had a 3.1 GPA and decided to transfer to Akron. At Akron, I have consistently made Dean's List every semester and have been very active in local political groups. I am also employed at the University.

Here is my problem...Several days ago I started my law school application process and requested my transcripts from community college to be sent to LSAC. After they were processed, I looked at my GPA and it was at 2.1! I realized that they had factored in the failed classes I took at CC.

What this means is that when I graduate my LSAC GPA is gonna be around a 2.7 if I'm lucky. Am I totally screwed? My dream is to go to law school and eventually be a lawyer, I don't plan on changing that. Some real advice would be very much appreciated

daryldixon
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Re: First Post. Admissions Dilemma. Please Help!

Postby daryldixon » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:26 pm

jdandrea2 wrote:This is my first post here but I've read quite a bit during my application process. I am a senior Philosophy major at a University in Ohio. I am planning on applying to Capital, Akron, Dayton and Ohio State. I have a 155 LSAT and I don't plan on taking it again so please don't advise me to do that. I go to the University of Akron right now and currently have a 3.6 GPA.

Before Akron, I went to a Community College. At this CC, I had to retake several classes. After two years at CC i had a 3.1 GPA and decided to transfer to Akron. At Akron, I have consistently made Dean's List every semester and have been very active in local political groups. I am also employed at the University.

Here is my problem...Several days ago I started my law school application process and requested my transcripts from community college to be sent to LSAC. After they were processed, I looked at my GPA and it was at 2.1! I realized that they had factored in the failed classes I took at CC.

What this means is that when I graduate my LSAC GPA is gonna be around a 2.7 if I'm lucky. Am I totally screwed? My dream is to go to law school and eventually be a lawyer, I don't plan on changing that. Some real advice would be very much appreciated

My advice is to do one of three things:

1) Retake the LSAT.
2) Delay graduation and take on another year of school (either at Akron or a community college) to boost your GPA.
3) If you aren't going to do 1 or 2, you should rethink your law school plan because any school that would admit you with your current GPA and LSAT score will have dismal employment opportunities for its graduates.

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Clearly
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Re: First Post. Admissions Dilemma. Please Help!

Postby Clearly » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:28 pm

Retake or don't go to law school period. Being a lawyer isn't going to law school, being a lawyer means having a job. The only schools that will look at you currently give you bad odds at achieving your goal. Retake.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: First Post. Admissions Dilemma. Please Help!

Postby ScottRiqui » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:30 pm

As far as advice goes, you've kind of tied our hands with the "no retake" thing. So as it stands, you'll be applying to law schools with a 155/~2.7, which I don't think will get you into anywhere worth going with enough of a scholarship to make it worthwhile.

Of the schools you listed, two of them aren't ranked, one's down around 120, and for the strongest school (Ohio State), you're well below both 25th percentiles.

Go to lawschooltransparency.com and check out the schools you're interested in. For any of them you have a real chance of going to, you'll have significantly less than a 50-50 chance of coming out with ANY kind of full-time, JD-required legal employment. And you'll probably have to take out several hundred thousand dollars in loans to even make the attempt.

I'm sorry, but I think yours is a pretty classic "retake or don't go" situation.

indo
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Re: First Post. Admissions Dilemma. Please Help!

Postby indo » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:43 pm

ScottRiqui wrote:As far as advice goes, you've kind of tied our hands with the "no retake" thing. So as it stands, you'll be applying to law schools with a 155/~2.7, which I don't think will get you into anywhere worth going with enough of a scholarship to make it worthwhile.

Of the schools you listed, two of them aren't ranked, one's down around 120, and for the strongest school (Ohio State), you're well below both 25th percentiles.

Go to lawschooltransparency.com and check out the schools you're interested in. For any of them you have a real chance of going to, you'll have significantly less than a 50-50 chance of coming out with ANY kind of full-time, JD-required legal employment. And you'll probably have to take out several hundred thousand dollars in loans to even make the attempt.

I'm sorry, but I think yours is a pretty classic "retake or don't go" situation.


+1

If you do NOT retake that mean you want to screw you life period.

jdandrea2
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Re: First Post. Admissions Dilemma. Please Help!

Postby jdandrea2 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:43 am

A) I'm not retaking the LSAT as I clearly stated in my original post.

B) Two of my uncles run a small law firm, thus I am not worried about finding a job pending graduating law school and passing the bar.

C) My chief concern here is actually getting in to law school. Before I saw my LSAC adjusted GPA I thought that I had a decent shot at OSU considering the fact that my recommendation letters are stellar and my personal statement is thorough. But now I am simply worried about getting into law school period.

Thanks

daryldixon
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Re: First Post. Admissions Dilemma. Please Help!

Postby daryldixon » Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:46 am

jdandrea2 wrote:A) I'm not retaking the LSAT as I clearly stated in my original post.

B) Two of my uncles run a small law firm, thus I am not worried about finding a job pending graduating law school and passing the bar.

C) My chief concern here is actually getting in to law school. Before I saw my LSAC adjusted GPA I thought that I had a decent shot at OSU considering the fact that my recommendation letters are stellar and my personal statement is thorough. But now I am simply worried about getting into law school period.

Thanks

Have your uncles already agreed to hire you no matter what law school you go to and what your grades are?

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barrelofmonkeys
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Re: First Post. Admissions Dilemma. Please Help!

Postby barrelofmonkeys » Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:48 am

jdandrea2 wrote:A) I'm not retaking the LSAT as I clearly stated in my original post.



Could we ask your reason for being so adamant about not retaking?

ETA: You're still in college. I would also put in a hearty vote for taking some time off after school anyway.

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fundamentallybroken
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Re: First Post. Admissions Dilemma. Please Help!

Postby fundamentallybroken » Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:51 am

Letters of recommendation and personal statements don't get you into law schools. GPA and LSAT get you into law schools. You're not retaking, and you can't do anything about your low GPA, so why are you here? For advice?

Go to a TTT for sticker, and pray your uncles will hire you after school. Pretty sure that's the advice you were looking for.

jdandrea2
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Re: First Post. Admissions Dilemma. Please Help!

Postby jdandrea2 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:00 am

Both of my uncles went to Akron. They both talked to me extensively about how horrible the legal market is etc. I'm stubborn and decided that going to law school is something I am going to do. I was told that IF I get into law school then they'd find a place for me.

I want to go to law school next Fall. I took the LSAT last June and worked like hell to get a 155. I spent money on all the books and even took a prep class. The time and money commitment of retaking it is not something I want to go through again.

Also, at this point what difference does it make if I improve my LSAT? My GPA has pretty much dug my own grave. I mean, let's say that I retake the test and somehow get a better score. Let's say I score a 160, then what? Maybe I get offered more of a scholarship at a T3? Realistically I can't see myself improving my score that much anyway.

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barrelofmonkeys
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Re: First Post. Admissions Dilemma. Please Help!

Postby barrelofmonkeys » Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:04 am

jdandrea2 wrote:Both of my uncles went to Akron. They both talked to me extensively about how horrible the legal market is etc. I'm stubborn and decided that going to law school is something I am going to do. I was told that IF I get into law school then they'd find a place for me.

I want to go to law school next Fall. I took the LSAT last June and worked like hell to get a 155. I spent money on all the books and even took a prep class. The time and money commitment of retaking it is not something I want to go through again.

Also, at this point what difference does it make if I improve my LSAT? My GPA has pretty much dug my own grave. I mean, let's say that I retake the test and somehow get a better score. Let's say I score a 160, then what? Maybe I get offered more of a scholarship at a T3? Realistically I can't see myself improving my score that much anyway.


There are some stellar examples of people with GPAs as low as yours but good LSATs that get into some great schools.
That's *why* TLS advises you to retake in the first place. It's not without reason.
ETA: I'm only explaining why people are saying retake. If you feel like you've done all you can do, then, well, I don't know, but best of luck to you.

jdandrea2
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Re: First Post. Admissions Dilemma. Please Help!

Postby jdandrea2 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:10 am

Let's say that I do retake the LSAT... What type of score might get me into a school like OSU or even Case Western considering my shitty GPA?

daryldixon
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Re: First Post. Admissions Dilemma. Please Help!

Postby daryldixon » Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:14 am

jdandrea2 wrote:Let's say that I do retake the LSAT... What type of score might get me into a school like OSU or even Case Western considering my shitty GPA?

165+

Consider delaying graduation to improve your GPA. Or take some extra CC courses right before graduation.

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bound
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Re: First Post. Admissions Dilemma. Please Help!

Postby bound » Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:18 am

Someone with a 2.6 retook the LSAT and got a 170, and is in at UT. The best public law school in the country. Your GPA will only hold you back if you don't retake the LSAT.

daryldixon
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Re: First Post. Admissions Dilemma. Please Help!

Postby daryldixon » Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:21 am

Austinbound wrote:Someone with a 2.6 retook the LSAT and got a 170, and is in at UT. The best public law school in the country. Your GPA will only hold you back if you don't retake the LSAT.

LOL. Berkeley, Michigan, and UVA beg to differ.

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bound
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Re: First Post. Admissions Dilemma. Please Help!

Postby bound » Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:22 am

daryldixon wrote:
Austinbound wrote:Someone with a 2.6 retook the LSAT and got a 170, and is in at UT. The best public law school in the country. Your GPA will only hold you back if you don't retake the LSAT.

LOL. Berkeley, Michigan, and UVA beg to differ.



Hahah my bad I meant one of the best. My point being, an amazing school can look past the GPA with a solid lsat

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holdencaulfield
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Re: First Post. Admissions Dilemma. Please Help!

Postby holdencaulfield » Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:24 am

jdandrea2 wrote:The time and money commitment of retaking it is not something I want to go through again.



This reeks of somebody with no ambition. You do realize you will have to work just as hard to succeed in lawschool, right? Get it together and come up with a plan that gives you a decent shot a success.

How much debt will you have at graduation? You will find no validation for a decision to go deeply into debt at a school with less-than-bad employment statistics. Moreover, if your uncles' firm is small, I'm guessing you'll make 50k-75k as an associate there. That's a pretty slim salary when you're also making a 2k-3k student loan payment each month.


Sorry to sound so harsh, but I doubt you will take any advice from this forum anyways.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: First Post. Admissions Dilemma. Please Help!

Postby ScottRiqui » Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:26 am

jdandrea2 wrote:Let's say that I do retake the LSAT... What type of score might get me into a school like OSU or even Case Western considering my shitty GPA?


Well, I'm just one example, but I got into UT with a lower uGPA than yours (~2.6). Granted, my uGPA is from twenty years ago, I have a master's degree with a much higher GPA from only a few years ago, and I've been in the military since undergrad, so I had some pretty good soft factors going for me. But since I was under Texas' 25th GPA percentile, I retook the LSAT in order to get above their LSAT 75th percentile and give them a reason to want me.

For OSU, that means you'd need to raise your score to about a 162, which isn't a huge jump from where you are now. And OSU seems like a fairly strong regional school, with employment numbers that aren't outright dismal, so you might come out of there with some options other than working for your uncles.

jdandrea2
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Re: First Post. Admissions Dilemma. Please Help!

Postby jdandrea2 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:36 am

It's not a lack of ambition. To be completely honest I am terrified of taking it again and scoring worse or not as good as I need to get where I want to go (as lame as that sounds).

Right now I have a lot to mull over. Everyone here seems pretty adamant about me retaking it, so that might be something I do.

If I make a decision about it in the next few days I'll post again. Thanks for all the feedback!

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holdencaulfield
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Re: First Post. Admissions Dilemma. Please Help!

Postby holdencaulfield » Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:37 am

jdandrea2 wrote:It's not a lack of ambition. To be completely honest I am terrified of taking it again and scoring worse or not as good as I need to get where I want to go (as lame as that sounds).

Right now I have a lot to mull over. Everyone here seems pretty adamant about me retaking it, so that might be something I do.

If I make a decision about it in the next few days I'll post again. Thanks for all the feedback!



Glad to hear you have an open mind. Best of luck in your endeavors.

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Pneumonia
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Re: First Post. Admissions Dilemma. Please Help!

Postby Pneumonia » Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:33 am

jdandrea2 wrote: I took the LSAT last June and worked like hell to get a 155. I spent money on all the books and even took a prep class. The time and money commitment of retaking it is not something I want to go through again.

Also, at this point what difference does it make if I improve my LSAT?

My GPA has pretty much dug my own grave.


You can't buy a better score. Not that the following was your attitude, but something that is pretty common among people who pay for prep courses is the expectation that the money itself will increase their score. All of the books, the materials, the course itself- those things only enable you to score better; they don't ensure it. Without several hundred hours (at least) of dedicated, diligent study you can't really expect a gain. Again, idk if this applies to you but if it does then consider it.

Improving your LSAT is the only thing that can make a difference in your app, and that difference cannot be overstated.

Your GPA is admittedly not good, but fortunately you can still avoid digging your own grave by studying hard and retaking the LSAT

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unodostres
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Re: First Post. Admissions Dilemma. Please Help!

Postby unodostres » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:02 am

Lol at not wanting to deal with lsat studies but wanting to go to law school so bad. You're so screwed if you don't have a guaranteed job. If you're scared of doing worse than a 155, you don't realize what kind of shit you're in for with some TTTT's that you're applying to. Even at sticker for these shit schools you won't pay back your loans.

With that attitude don't even retake. You seem beat already.

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Clearly
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Re: First Post. Admissions Dilemma. Please Help!

Postby Clearly » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:15 am

I got into NU with a 2.7...after a retake.
Do what you must.




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