Give a boy some admissions confidence

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Umichleclair
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Give a boy some admissions confidence

Postby Umichleclair » Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:01 pm

Hey TLS Community,

I am applying to law schools in the fall of 2014. At the moment I have an LSAT score of 168 (taking it again this February for a few more glamour points) and a less than ideal undergraduate GPA of 2.72. I spent a year after graduation working for the University in a business office and have spent the last 2 years teaching English in Japan.

Given these superficial facts, what kind of law school ranking am I looking at? I know which school you choose is about much more than it's ranking but I am just hoping to get a little encouragement that I can get into a decent school.

Any and all thoughts are welcome! Even those I probably don't want to hear.

Thanks all! :shock:

daryldixon
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Re: Give a boy some admissions confidence

Postby daryldixon » Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:07 pm

Umichleclair wrote:Hey TLS Community,

I am applying to law schools in the fall of 2014. At the moment I have an LSAT score of 168 (taking it again this February for a few more glamour points) and a less than ideal undergraduate GPA of 2.72. I spent a year after graduation working for the University in a business office and have spent the last 2 years teaching English in Japan.

Given these superficial facts, what kind of law school ranking am I looking at? I know which school you choose is about much more than it's ranking but I am just hoping to get a little encouragement that I can get into a decent school.

Any and all thoughts are welcome! Even those I probably don't want to hear.

Thanks all! :shock:

You are looking at a T20 on the high side. You should retake but also consider if you really want to go to law school. ITE I wouldn't be taking on debt at any school (even for cost of living) at any law school less than a T10.

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Young Marino
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Re: Give a boy some admissions confidence

Postby Young Marino » Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:09 pm

Umichleclair wrote:Hey TLS Community,

I am applying to law schools in the fall of 2014. At the moment I have an LSAT score of 168 (taking it again this February for a few more glamour points) and a less than ideal undergraduate GPA of 2.72. I spent a year after graduation working for the University in a business office and have spent the last 2 years teaching English in Japan.

Given these superficial facts, what kind of law school ranking am I looking at? I know which school you choose is about much more than it's ranking but I am just hoping to get a little encouragement that I can get into a decent school.

Any and all thoughts are welcome! Even those I probably don't want to hear.

Thanks all! :shock:

I don't know if your lsat is high enough for Northwestern with that gpa but your work experience can go a long way. I would look at LSN but you're probably in the running for some tier 1s for sure

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Nova
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Re: Give a boy some admissions confidence

Postby Nova » Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:10 pm

$$ @ WUSTL/UMN

Decent shot at most regionals outside T20

Umichleclair
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Re: Give a boy some admissions confidence

Postby Umichleclair » Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:58 pm

Thanks! That definitely helps give me an idea.

My dream school has been Northwestern for a long time. I have always wanted to live in Chicago, turns out it's not a bad place to practice law, and figure a law school in the same city where I'll be practicing is a wise decision as far as networking goes.

I feel a bit more confident. Thanks again! :twisted:

Ti Malice
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Re: Give a boy some admissions confidence

Postby Ti Malice » Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:08 am

You'll have your best shot with a score at or above NU's LSAT 75th. So don't retake until you're consistently scoring a few points above 171 in practice.

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dsn32
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Re: Give a boy some admissions confidence

Postby dsn32 » Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:18 am

If I'm not mistaken, LSN showed no applicants with a 170+ getting turned down from Northwestern last cycle (even if there were since the last time I looked, the number is likely very small). So I would strongly encourage a retake, aiming for 170+ (if you got a 168 on try #1, you have an excellent shot, two points can be random error). Then, your decision is if NU at sticker or with whatever amount they give you is worth it.

BigZuck
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Re: Give a boy some admissions confidence

Postby BigZuck » Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:48 am

Obligatory "T1 and T10 are meaningless distinctions" post

OP-retake, hit 170, get into NU. EZ GAME

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lawschool22
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Re: Give a boy some admissions confidence

Postby lawschool22 » Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:32 am

NU is definitely within reach for you with an LSAT around their 75th. Good luck on that retake.

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d cooper
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Re: Give a boy some admissions confidence

Postby d cooper » Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:22 pm

Umichleclair wrote:Thanks! That definitely helps give me an idea.

My dream school has been Northwestern for a long time. I have always wanted to live in Chicago, turns out it's not a bad place to practice law, and figure a law school in the same city where I'll be practicing is a wise decision as far as networking goes.

I feel a bit more confident. Thanks again! :twisted:


Right now you are locked out of the T14. With a 171, you have a slight chance at NU. 172+ looks a lot better on http://mylsn.info.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Give a boy some admissions confidence

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:51 pm

daryldixon wrote:
Umichleclair wrote:Hey TLS Community,

I am applying to law schools in the fall of 2014. At the moment I have an LSAT score of 168 (taking it again this February for a few more glamour points) and a less than ideal undergraduate GPA of 2.72. I spent a year after graduation working for the University in a business office and have spent the last 2 years teaching English in Japan.

Given these superficial facts, what kind of law school ranking am I looking at? I know which school you choose is about much more than it's ranking but I am just hoping to get a little encouragement that I can get into a decent school.

Any and all thoughts are welcome! Even those I probably don't want to hear.

Thanks all! :shock:

You are looking at a T20 on the high side. You should retake but also consider if you really want to go to law school. ITE I wouldn't be taking on debt at any school (even for cost of living) at any law school less than a T10.


This is a strong statement. You wouldn't take a full ride at Cornell or Duke if you had to loan a little money for rent and food?

daryldixon
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Re: Give a boy some admissions confidence

Postby daryldixon » Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:35 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
daryldixon wrote:
Umichleclair wrote:Hey TLS Community,

I am applying to law schools in the fall of 2014. At the moment I have an LSAT score of 168 (taking it again this February for a few more glamour points) and a less than ideal undergraduate GPA of 2.72. I spent a year after graduation working for the University in a business office and have spent the last 2 years teaching English in Japan.

Given these superficial facts, what kind of law school ranking am I looking at? I know which school you choose is about much more than it's ranking but I am just hoping to get a little encouragement that I can get into a decent school.

Any and all thoughts are welcome! Even those I probably don't want to hear.

Thanks all! :shock:

You are looking at a T20 on the high side. You should retake but also consider if you really want to go to law school. ITE I wouldn't be taking on debt at any school (even for cost of living) at any law school less than a T10.


This is a strong statement. You wouldn't take a full ride at Cornell or Duke if you had to loan a little money for rent and food?

Yep. T10 and better usually give the applicant a slightly better than 50% chance at Biglaw. I wouldn't take on debt at anything less than that because the employment outcomes are not strong enough to warrant taking on that risk.

But of course your question is about the margin. Cornell and Duke are close to being T10 and in some years have better employment stats than some of the T10. That makes the decision tougher but generally, if all other things were equal, I would not take on debt at those schools (even for cost of living). However, if Michigan's employment numbers continue on their recent trend I would probably switch out Michigan for Duke in my categorization.

Ti Malice
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Re: Give a boy some admissions confidence

Postby Ti Malice » Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:31 pm

daryldixon wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
daryldixon wrote:
Umichleclair wrote:Hey TLS Community,

I am applying to law schools in the fall of 2014. At the moment I have an LSAT score of 168 (taking it again this February for a few more glamour points) and a less than ideal undergraduate GPA of 2.72. I spent a year after graduation working for the University in a business office and have spent the last 2 years teaching English in Japan.

Given these superficial facts, what kind of law school ranking am I looking at? I know which school you choose is about much more than it's ranking but I am just hoping to get a little encouragement that I can get into a decent school.

Any and all thoughts are welcome! Even those I probably don't want to hear.

Thanks all! :shock:

You are looking at a T20 on the high side. You should retake but also consider if you really want to go to law school. ITE I wouldn't be taking on debt at any school (even for cost of living) at any law school less than a T10.


This is a strong statement. You wouldn't take a full ride at Cornell or Duke if you had to loan a little money for rent and food?

Yep. T10 and better usually give the applicant a slightly better than 50% chance at Biglaw. I wouldn't take on debt at anything less than that because the employment outcomes are not strong enough to warrant taking on that risk.

But of course your question is about the margin. Cornell and Duke are close to being T10 and in some years have better employment stats than some of the T10. That makes the decision tougher but generally, if all other things were equal, I would not take on debt at those schools (even for cost of living). However, if Michigan's employment numbers continue on their recent trend I would probably switch out Michigan for Duke in my categorization.


Since you've somehow managed to spend more than two months on TLS without learning it yet, you should probably learn now that "T10" is an utterly meaningless distinction that doesn't correlate to employment outcomes. It's something (1) that MVB students use to feel good about themselves and (2) that people who attribute too much worth to USNWR rankings buy into. Aside from Penn, the non-T6 T13 are essentially fungible.

daryldixon
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Re: Give a boy some admissions confidence

Postby daryldixon » Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:40 pm

Ti Malice wrote:Since you've somehow managed to spend more than two months on TLS without learning it yet, you should probably learn now that "T10" is an utterly meaningless distinction that doesn't correlate to employment outcomes. It's something (1) that MVB students use to feel good about themselves and (2) that people who attribute too much worth to USNWR rankings buy into. Aside from Penn, the non-T6 T13 are essentially fungible.

The meaning is in the eye of the beholder bro. You sound a little butt hurt about it though. Do you go to a school in DCGN?

Ti Malice
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Re: Give a boy some admissions confidence

Postby Ti Malice » Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:48 pm

daryldixon wrote:
Ti Malice wrote:Since you've somehow managed to spend more than two months on TLS without learning it yet, you should probably learn now that "T10" is an utterly meaningless distinction that doesn't correlate to employment outcomes. It's something (1) that MVB students use to feel good about themselves and (2) that people who attribute too much worth to USNWR rankings buy into. Aside from Penn, the non-T6 T13 are essentially fungible.

The meaning is in the eye of the beholder bro. You sound a little butt hurt about it though. Do you go to a school in DCGN?


Nah, bro. Not "butthurt" at all, bro. I go to Yale, bro, but I do appreciate your concern nonetheless, bro.

The meaning of accurate employment data is not a subjective matter, bro.

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Young Marino
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Re: Give a boy some admissions confidence

Postby Young Marino » Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:39 pm

daryldixon wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
daryldixon wrote:
Umichleclair wrote:Hey TLS Community,

I am applying to law schools in the fall of 2014. At the moment I have an LSAT score of 168 (taking it again this February for a few more glamour points) and a less than ideal undergraduate GPA of 2.72. I spent a year after graduation working for the University in a business office and have spent the last 2 years teaching English in Japan.

Given these superficial facts, what kind of law school ranking am I looking at? I know which school you choose is about much more than it's ranking but I am just hoping to get a little encouragement that I can get into a decent school.

Any and all thoughts are welcome! Even those I probably don't want to hear.

Thanks all! :shock:

You are looking at a T20 on the high side. You should retake but also consider if you really want to go to law school. ITE I wouldn't be taking on debt at any school (even for cost of living) at any law school less than a T10.


This is a strong statement. You wouldn't take a full ride at Cornell or Duke if you had to loan a little money for rent and food?

Yep. T10 and better usually give the applicant a slightly better than 50% chance at Biglaw. I wouldn't take on debt at anything less than that because the employment outcomes are not strong enough to warrant taking on that

What about working for the public sector and taking advantage of pslf?

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phillywc
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Re: Give a boy some admissions confidence

Postby phillywc » Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:49 pm

Ti Malice wrote:
daryldixon wrote:
Ti Malice wrote:Since you've somehow managed to spend more than two months on TLS without learning it yet, you should probably learn now that "T10" is an utterly meaningless distinction that doesn't correlate to employment outcomes. It's something (1) that MVB students use to feel good about themselves and (2) that people who attribute too much worth to USNWR rankings buy into. Aside from Penn, the non-T6 T13 are essentially fungible.

The meaning is in the eye of the beholder bro. You sound a little butt hurt about it though. Do you go to a school in DCGN?


Nah, bro. Not "butthurt" at all, bro. I go to Yale, bro, but I do appreciate your concern nonetheless, bro.

The meaning of accurate employment data is not a subjective matter, bro.

Thanks for this, Ti Malice.

062914123
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Re: Give a boy some admissions confidence

Postby 062914123 » Wed Jan 01, 2014 4:19 pm

.
Last edited by 062914123 on Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Crowing
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Re: Give a boy some admissions confidence

Postby Crowing » Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:49 pm

Ti Malice wrote:
daryldixon wrote:
Ti Malice wrote:Since you've somehow managed to spend more than two months on TLS without learning it yet, you should probably learn now that "T10" is an utterly meaningless distinction that doesn't correlate to employment outcomes. It's something (1) that MVB students use to feel good about themselves and (2) that people who attribute too much worth to USNWR rankings buy into. Aside from Penn, the non-T6 T13 are essentially fungible.

The meaning is in the eye of the beholder bro. You sound a little butt hurt about it though. Do you go to a school in DCGN?


Nah, bro. Not "butthurt" at all, bro. I go to Yale, bro, but I do appreciate your concern nonetheless, bro.

The meaning of accurate employment data is not a subjective matter, bro.


I can just imagine your eyes lighting up when you saw that post, lol.

daryldixon
Posts: 233
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Re: Give a boy some admissions confidence

Postby daryldixon » Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:39 pm

Ti Malice wrote:
daryldixon wrote:
Ti Malice wrote:Since you've somehow managed to spend more than two months on TLS without learning it yet, you should probably learn now that "T10" is an utterly meaningless distinction that doesn't correlate to employment outcomes. It's something (1) that MVB students use to feel good about themselves and (2) that people who attribute too much worth to USNWR rankings buy into. Aside from Penn, the non-T6 T13 are essentially fungible.

The meaning is in the eye of the beholder bro. You sound a little butt hurt about it though. Do you go to a school in DCGN?


Nah, bro. Not "butthurt" at all, bro. I go to Yale, bro, but I do appreciate your concern nonetheless, bro.

The meaning of accurate employment data is not a subjective matter, bro.

LOL. Did you just make a comment about how rankings were meaningless and then "drop" the fact that you went to Yale in the same post?

The employment outcomes aren't all about the raw percentages of big law. You should know that since you go to Yale and your school has the lowest percentage of graduates going to big law in the t14. I shouldn't have to explain this to you since, you know, you go to Yale. Look at the percentage of unemployed grads on LST last year.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0ArLPs-b0ZTJBdFRJWlZXcmg2VXNfZGQ4NFI4eFVzanc&gid=1

DCGN has had higher percentages of unemployed graduates than MVPB. The two that don't really match that trend (but only recently) are Duke and Michigan which I mentioned above I would swap in my distinction. But you probably know all of that already because you go to Yale.

Edit: Sorry if I didn't acknowledge your school enough times in my post. I will highlight the mentions so you can have an easier time masturbating to your greatness later.

BigZuck
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Re: Give a boy some admissions confidence

Postby BigZuck » Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:46 pm

Daryl- I'm about to say something that will blow your mind. You might want to sit down. Are you ready?

By and large, the lower T14 schools are peers.

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Serett
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Re: Give a boy some admissions confidence

Postby Serett » Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:47 pm

daryldixon wrote:
Ti Malice wrote:
daryldixon wrote:
Ti Malice wrote:Since you've somehow managed to spend more than two months on TLS without learning it yet, you should probably learn now that "T10" is an utterly meaningless distinction that doesn't correlate to employment outcomes. It's something (1) that MVB students use to feel good about themselves and (2) that people who attribute too much worth to USNWR rankings buy into. Aside from Penn, the non-T6 T13 are essentially fungible.

The meaning is in the eye of the beholder bro. You sound a little butt hurt about it though. Do you go to a school in DCGN?


Nah, bro. Not "butthurt" at all, bro. I go to Yale, bro, but I do appreciate your concern nonetheless, bro.

The meaning of accurate employment data is not a subjective matter, bro.

LOL. Did you just make a comment about how rankings were meaningless and then "drop" the fact that you went to Yale in the same post?

The employment outcomes aren't all about the raw percentages of big law. You should know that since you go to Yale and your school has the lowest percentage of graduates going to big law in the t14. I shouldn't have to explain this to you since, you know, you go to Yale. Look at the percentage of unemployed grads on LST last year.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0ArLPs-b0ZTJBdFRJWlZXcmg2VXNfZGQ4NFI4eFVzanc&gid=1

DCGN has had higher percentages of unemployed graduates than MVPB. The two that don't really match that trend (but only recently) are Duke and Michigan which I mentioned above I would swap in my distinction. But you probably know all of that already because you go to Yale.

Edit: Sorry if I didn't acknowledge your school enough times in my post. I will highlight the mentions so you can have an easier time masturbating to your greatness later.


The prudent time to cut your losses really would have been prior to this post.

daryldixon
Posts: 233
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Re: Give a boy some admissions confidence

Postby daryldixon » Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:53 pm

BigZuck wrote:Daryl- I'm about to say something that will blow your mind. You might want to sit down. Are you ready?

By and large, the lower T14 schools are peers.

I agree with you. I am just arguing with this asshole from Yale because he thinks he is king of the rankings distinctions. I answered OP's question using a distinction that I believe is meaningful (or at least as meaningful as the other BS distinctions). But this asshole decided to try to come in and school me on how uneducated I was on rankings and employment outcomes since I had only been on TLS for a month.

I believe they are peers but you need to draw the line somewhere and my line is T10 (minus Michigan and plus Duke) for taking out any loans at all. Doesn't mean I am 100% right but my distinction is valid.

daryldixon
Posts: 233
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Re: Give a boy some admissions confidence

Postby daryldixon » Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:55 pm

Serett wrote:The prudent time to cut your losses really would have been prior to this post.

Explain what I am "losing" here?

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Give a boy some admissions confidence

Postby ScottRiqui » Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:59 pm

daryldixon wrote:
I believe they are peers but you need to draw the line somewhere and my line is T10 (minus Michigan and plus Duke) for taking out any loans at all. Doesn't mean I am 100% right but my distinction is valid.


Why do you need to "draw the line" at all? Do you really think that even with swapping Michigan and Duke, there's enough of a difference in employment results between the lower few of those ten and the other four to necessitate a distinction?




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