To people who say it's worthwhile to do non T-14

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BillsFan9907
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To people who say it's worthwhile to do non T-14

Postby BillsFan9907 » Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:23 pm

I've got some friends and family against the idea of retaking, telling me I will have great options in the t-20 even if its not high t-14. What's the best response?
Last edited by BillsFan9907 on Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: My wife doesn't buy that not doing top 10 isn't worthwhile

Postby TheSpanishMain » Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:28 pm

I don't think everyone here would agree that going to a T14 is the only worthwhile course of action, unless you're big law or bust. There are a lot of schools outside the T-14 that could be very worthwhile, depending on your goals and the cost of attendance.

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Philafaler
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Re: My wife doesn't buy that not doing top 10 isn't worthwhile

Postby Philafaler » Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:30 pm

1) http://www.lawschooltransparency.com

2) An excel spreadsheet that calculates approximate take-home pay and loan payments at different salaries and loan balances.

muskies970
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Re: My wife doesn't buy that not doing top 10 isn't worthwhile

Postby muskies970 » Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:30 pm

Seoulless wrote:Understandably, my wife is against the idea of my putting my life on hold for another year so that I can retake the LSATs. I've repeatedly explained to her everything that I've learned here about the reality of law school and the job market. I'd really like for her to understand the facts in the most simple, convincing way possible. What are the best resources for her to see things the way everyone here sees things?


Show her lawschooltransparency.com for the school's she wants you to attend.

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Philafaler
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Re: My wife doesn't buy that not doing top 10 isn't worthwhile

Postby Philafaler » Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:31 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:I don't think everyone here would agree that going to a T14 is the only worthwhile course of action, unless you're big law or bust. There are a lot of schools outside the T-14 that could be very worthwhile, depending on your goals and the cost of attendance.


Also, this. It depends upon your personal goals.

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brotherdarkness
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Re: My wife doesn't buy that not doing top 10 isn't worthwhile

Postby brotherdarkness » Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:32 pm

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Last edited by brotherdarkness on Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:24 am, edited 1 time in total.


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phillywc
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Re: My wife doesn't buy that not doing top 10 isn't worthwhile

Postby phillywc » Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:55 pm

If she won't accept facts, you are going to have to do it. You can't break your family because of pressure.

At some point, you have to accept that she won't accept it. Seems frustrating.

abl
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Re: My wife doesn't buy that not doing top 10 isn't worthwhile

Postby abl » Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:05 pm

There are even a few top regional schools (pretty much all in the top 25-30) that could be worth it sticker in some circumstances. If you're going to draw some sort of arbitrary line, also, do it at the top 14, not the top 10.

BillsFan9907
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Re: To people who say it's worthwhile to do non T-14

Postby BillsFan9907 » Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:31 pm

How does the game change if I can get a full ride?
Last edited by BillsFan9907 on Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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jingosaur
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Re: My wife doesn't buy that not doing top 10 isn't worthwhile

Postby jingosaur » Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:58 pm

Seoulless wrote:How does the game change if I can get a full ride? I think I am competitive for 15-20. http://mylsn.info/wnraju

In the back of my head, the way I see things is that even with a degree from Washington U or USC, I'm still gonna be one of the billion people competing for a highly salary job against those who went to HYS.

What do people do in this kind of situation? If you want to have a comfortable living, then does it boil down to your own initiative - starting your own gig from the ground up etc?


For the love of God, retake. Here is you LSN with 1 to 2 more points on the LSAT:

http://mylsn.info/swpp5o

Look at the difference, show it to you wife, and then show her how much better top schools place.

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2014
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Re: My wife doesn't buy that not doing top 10 isn't worthwhile

Postby 2014 » Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:07 pm

Over two years my parents went through the following stages:
1. Completely and totally opposed: ("Why can't you go to Local TTT, it's cheap and a lot of people do great coming from there")
2. Very very opposed: ("Surely if Local TTT is no good and T14 at sticker gets you a job, a T1 with a scholarship should be a happy medium")
3. Condoning but not happy: ("CCN at sticker seems reckless but ok if you get a job, it's your life")
4. Supportive ("CCN with trivial scholarship plus your imminent enrollment is great, so proud")

A wife relationship is different obviously, but point is, it just takes time and persistent lobbying. Have facts ready and apply to both schools she presently accepts and ones that she should, and she will come around. If she doesn't, think whether law school is the best idea, you can't do something for 3 years your wife hates.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: My wife doesn't buy that not doing top 10 isn't worthwhile

Postby TheSpanishMain » Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:13 pm

Seoulless wrote:What do people do in this kind of situation? If you want to have a comfortable living, then does it boil down to your own initiative - starting your own gig from the ground up etc?


I wouldn't depend on opening your own practice right out of school. People do it, but it seems incredibly risky to me. Would you rather be on your own immediately with no safety net, or would you rather work for someone else for a few years and then hang your shingle once you actually know what the hell you're doing?

If your goal is 'high salary, right out of law school' then Big Law is really your only option. Which means you need a T-14 to have a reasonably good chance. So...retake. If your goal is "comfortable life" then you could also go to the regional for free. You probably wouldn't get the 150k job right out of the gate, but with no debt you'd be able to have a decent life.

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Philafaler
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Re: My wife doesn't buy that not doing top 10 isn't worthwhile

Postby Philafaler » Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:49 pm

jingosaur wrote:
Seoulless wrote:How does the game change if I can get a full ride? I think I am competitive for 15-20. http://mylsn.info/wnraju

In the back of my head, the way I see things is that even with a degree from Washington U or USC, I'm still gonna be one of the billion people competing for a highly salary job against those who went to HYS.

What do people do in this kind of situation? If you want to have a comfortable living, then does it boil down to your own initiative - starting your own gig from the ground up etc?


For the love of God, retake. Here is you LSN with 1 to 2 more points on the LSAT:

http://mylsn.info/swpp5o

Look at the difference, show it to you wife, and then show her how much better top schools place.

+180

WanderingPondering
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Re: My wife doesn't buy that not doing top 10 isn't worthwhile

Postby WanderingPondering » Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:17 pm

I get that people have this trouble with their parents even though they shouldn't, unless their parents are paying for law school.

But this is your wife, communicate with her. You hopefully know her better than anyone on here. And you have all the same tools that everyone on here has. How can we possibly help you? Be open honest and straightforward with your goals, listen to her concerns and her goals, and go from there. Seriously, you are married to her. If you don't learn how to communicate with her, you might end up with bigger problems in the future. than simply choosing the wrong law school for you.

Good luck.

HYSenberg
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Re: My wife doesn't buy that not doing top 10 isn't worthwhile

Postby HYSenberg » Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:34 pm

Hit her.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: My wife doesn't buy that not doing top 10 isn't worthwhile

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:48 pm

HYSenberg wrote:Hit her.

Wow, this is so incredibly not funny.

062914123
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Re: My wife doesn't buy that not doing top 10 isn't worthwhile

Postby 062914123 » Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:58 pm

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Last edited by 062914123 on Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

20141023
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Re: My wife doesn't buy that not doing top 10 isn't worthwhile

Postby 20141023 » Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:47 am

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Last edited by 20141023 on Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BillsFan9907
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Re: To people who say it's worthwhile to do non T-14

Postby BillsFan9907 » Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:17 am

HYSenberg wrote:Hit her.


HAHAHAHAHAH dude that definitely lightened my mood a bit.
Last edited by BillsFan9907 on Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BillsFan9907
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Re: To people who say it's worthwhile to do non T-14

Postby BillsFan9907 » Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:21 am

Thanks for that.
Last edited by BillsFan9907 on Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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2014
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Re: My wife doesn't buy that not doing top 10 isn't worthwhile

Postby 2014 » Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:31 am

[quote=Seouless]That Google Doc is incredible. From what I am seeing, it's not a death sentence to go to Cornell, right? It's got the same BigLaw+Fed Clerkship percentages as Yale.[/quote]
If you are good with NYC then Cornell, especially at a discount, is normally as good as several schools above it. However, outside of NYC Cornell's reach is limited and it seems to have a little more variance than other schools (in good years it places as well or better than anywhere, some years it places closer to GULC levels).

I'd feel much better about Cornell than any school below it though.

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jingosaur
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Re: My wife doesn't buy that not doing top 10 isn't worthwhile

Postby jingosaur » Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:36 am

Seoulless wrote:That Google Doc is incredible. From what I am seeing, it's not a death sentence to go to Cornell, right? It's got the same BigLaw+Fed Clerkship percentages as Yale. I was really worried that if it wasn't HYS CCN, then I was more or less dooming myself to a career as a garbage collector with a law degree by accommodating my wife.

Am I missing something? Why isn't Cornell viewed as desirably as CCN?


CCN places much better than Cornell in clerkships, public interest, and government, so students lower in the class at CCN can still get biglaw jobs. Cornell is still very good for biglaw placement though, especially in New York. It's just that the jobs that Cornell generally places into that aren't biglaw aren't very good by CCN standards.

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AntipodeanPhil
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Re: My wife doesn't buy that not doing top 10 isn't worthwhile

Postby AntipodeanPhil » Tue Dec 24, 2013 4:14 pm

It took my wife probably 1-2 years to finally accept that going to law school was a good idea. I don't think she was fully on board until I got t14 acceptances.

I would bet lots of money your wife will have a different attitude when, in a year, you actually get in to famous, t14 schools. If she has even a smidgen of shallowness in her (and almost everyone does), she'll love telling family, high schools friends, etc, that you're at Cornell Law / Berkeley Law / whatever.

The only hard part is getting from now to then.

BillsFan9907
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Re: To people who say it's worthwhile to do non T-14

Postby BillsFan9907 » Tue Dec 24, 2013 5:56 pm

Is there an equivalent google doc showing breakdowns of how many students are actually employed, or is this it? Are 80% of Penn Grads in Big Law and Clerkships, or are 80% of ALL EMPLOYED?
Last edited by BillsFan9907 on Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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