traffic violation & juvenile record

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wlynn
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traffic violation & juvenile record

Postby wlynn » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:21 pm

I remember being arrested sometime in middle school for violating curfew and spent one night in juvenile detention. However my criminal history record doesn't include it. I went to get a copy in the hopes of finding out the date when it occurred but it's not even listed so should I list this in my law school application?

Also, I had a citation for failure to signal when making a turn a few years back that's also not listed in my driving record! I remember paying a fine and it was dropped maybe... I specifically went to the DMV to get a complete history but there's nothing on it. Is there some other place I'm not aware of where I can get a complete record?

Should I list these even though I can't remember the date(or year, for that matter) when they occurred? I know these are rather minor but would non-disclosure cause me problems later with the bar?

PalmBay
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Re: traffic violation & juvenile record

Postby PalmBay » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:28 pm

Most schools don't even want you to list minor traffic violations. Look to the specific language on each individual C/F section on each individual application. If it tells you to include it, include it, if it tells you not to, then don't.

I don't think law schools will care about a failure to use a turn signal. I can almost guarantee none of your applications will ask you to cite that.

As for the night in juvenile detention, that sounds like it's a little more serious. I remember some C/F sections asking for suspensions/being detained. I am guessing you'll just have to try harder to obtaining those records so you can properly disclose it.

I don't want to derail OPs thread, but a lot of people mention potential problems "with the bar" later on. What is that?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: traffic violation & juvenile record

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:16 am

When you apply for membership in a state bar (get licensed to practice), you have to take the bar exam, and pass character & fitness. The state bar association will compare your bar c&f application with your law school application. If you disclose something for the bar that you didn't disclose in your law school application, but you should have (or vice versa), you will run into problems with your state bar association.

PalmBay
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Re: traffic violation & juvenile record

Postby PalmBay » Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:34 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:When you apply for membership in a state bar (get licensed to practice), you have to take the bar exam, and pass character & fitness. The state bar association will compare your bar c&f application with your law school application. If you disclose something for the bar that you didn't disclose in your law school application, but you should have (or vice versa), you will run into problems with your state bar association.

Thanks!

Ti Malice
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Re: traffic violation & juvenile record

Postby Ti Malice » Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:09 am

PalmBay wrote:I don't think law schools will care about a failure to use a turn signal. I can almost guarantee none of your applications will ask you to cite that.


You need to be careful about offering this sort of advice. In some states, all moving violations are criminal misdemeanors. In those cases, some apps will absolutely require disclosure, regardless of whether they specifically mention traffic tickets.

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KingJamesLBJ
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Re: traffic violation & juvenile record

Postby KingJamesLBJ » Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:13 am

So juvenile offenses have to be listed, even when they were ex sponged (everyone's juvenile, is i believe)?? I know for a fact it doesn't come up on a government background check because ive done one. But why would you list something done as a child..?

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Happy Gilmore
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Re: traffic violation & juvenile record

Postby Happy Gilmore » Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:54 pm

KingJamesLBJ wrote:So juvenile offenses have to be listed, even when they were ex sponged (everyone's juvenile, is i believe)?? I know for a fact it doesn't come up on a government background check because ive done one. But why would you list something done as a child..?


It depends on what the application asks for. Some say they don't sealed records others say they do. Read it very very carefully and error on the side of caution if you are not sure...ESPECIALLY if it is something silly like a turn signal that will have no effect.

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midwest17
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Re: traffic violation & juvenile record

Postby midwest17 » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:36 pm

KingJamesLBJ wrote:ex sponged


:D

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lawschool22
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Re: traffic violation & juvenile record

Postby lawschool22 » Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:38 pm

midwest17 wrote:
KingJamesLBJ wrote:ex sponged


:D


Don't let spongebob hear you say "ex sponged"...

Image

PalmBay
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Re: traffic violation & juvenile record

Postby PalmBay » Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:30 am

Ti Malice wrote:
PalmBay wrote:I don't think law schools will care about a failure to use a turn signal. I can almost guarantee none of your applications will ask you to cite that.


You need to be careful about offering this sort of advice. In some states, all moving violations are criminal misdemeanors. In those cases, some apps will absolutely require disclosure, regardless of whether they specifically mention traffic tickets.

I am not disagreeing with you, but with law schools receiving plenty of out of state applications and with the obvious understanding that incoming law students aren't necessarily attuned to the finer nuances of the law, they make sure they specifically say whether they want or don't want minor traffic violations listed. It'd be rather silly for a law school, operating in a state where minor traffic violations are criminal misdemeanors, to assume that an applicant would in fact know that minor traffic violations are criminal misdemeanors in that state. That's why they explain that on the application, I've seen plenty.

wlynn
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Re: traffic violation & juvenile record

Postby wlynn » Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:34 am

PalmBay wrote:Most schools don't even want you to list minor traffic violations. Look to the specific language on each individual C/F section on each individual application. If it tells you to include it, include it, if it tells you not to, then don't.

I don't think law schools will care about a failure to use a turn signal. I can almost guarantee none of your applications will ask you to cite that.


Two of the schools I'm applying to specifically states to include all moving violations and all arrests, including those that have been sealed or expunged. I can include my two incidents, my problem is finding out when it all happened. I've been to my dmv offices and state and have gotten my entire driving record and criminal history (which is blank and supposedly includes juvenile history as well). On my application, should I just put the approximate year it happened? I don't know where else to dig up this information.

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lawschool22
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Re: traffic violation & juvenile record

Postby lawschool22 » Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:55 am

wlynn wrote:
PalmBay wrote:Most schools don't even want you to list minor traffic violations. Look to the specific language on each individual C/F section on each individual application. If it tells you to include it, include it, if it tells you not to, then don't.

I don't think law schools will care about a failure to use a turn signal. I can almost guarantee none of your applications will ask you to cite that.


Two of the schools I'm applying to specifically states to include all moving violations and all arrests, including those that have been sealed or expunged. I can include my two incidents, my problem is finding out when it all happened. I've been to my dmv offices and state and have gotten my entire driving record and criminal history (which is blank and supposedly includes juvenile history as well). On my application, should I just put the approximate year it happened? I don't know where else to dig up this information.


You can just list approximate dates if you can't get the actual date.

Ti Malice
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Re: traffic violation & juvenile record

Postby Ti Malice » Sun Dec 22, 2013 5:33 pm

PalmBay wrote:
Ti Malice wrote:
PalmBay wrote:I don't think law schools will care about a failure to use a turn signal. I can almost guarantee none of your applications will ask you to cite that.


You need to be careful about offering this sort of advice. In some states, all moving violations are criminal misdemeanors. In those cases, some apps will absolutely require disclosure, regardless of whether they specifically mention traffic tickets.

I am not disagreeing with you, but with law schools receiving plenty of out of state applications and with the obvious understanding that incoming law students aren't necessarily attuned to the finer nuances of the law, they make sure they specifically say whether they want or don't want minor traffic violations listed. It'd be rather silly for a law school, operating in a state where minor traffic violations are criminal misdemeanors, to assume that an applicant would in fact know that minor traffic violations are criminal misdemeanors in that state. That's why they explain that on the application, I've seen plenty.


Then you haven't seen enough, apparently -- which is why you should stop offering this poor advice. Many apps will require disclosure of any criminal offense, including traffic violations, without expressly including or exempting any specific category of offenses. (And the relevant information is not whether a traffic violation is a criminal offense in the law school's state, but whether the violation was a criminal offense in the state in which the violation occurred.) See below:

Yale wrote:1. Have you ever been convicted of, or pleaded guilty or no contest to, a felony or misdemeanor, or are there any criminal charges pending against you?

Columbia wrote:3. Have you ever, either as an adult or a juvenile, been cited, arrested, charged with, indicted, convicted or tried for, or pleaded guilty to, the commission of any felony or misdemeanor or the violation of any law, except minor parking violations, or been the subject of any juvenile delinquency or youthful offender proceeding?

NYU wrote:6. Have you ever, either as an adult or a juvenile, been charged with or convicted of any crime, or charged with or found to have committed any offense (whether or not defined as a crime), or are any such charges pending? This should include matters that have been expunged or dismissed.

Penn wrote:3. Have you ever, either as an adult or a juvenile, been arrested, charged, cited, or convicted of a crime (including misdemeanors), or is any charge now pending against you? (This should include matters that have been expunged or subject to a diversionary program.)




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