Waitlisted at Idaho? Is this a bad sign?

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Progress01
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Waitlisted at Idaho? Is this a bad sign?

Postby Progress01 » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:19 pm

So...many many applications later, and I have a VERY QUICK response from Idaho today via email. I'm waitlisted. I'm a little crushed, because this is the first school to get back to me, and to hear I'm waitlisted is bumming me out.
I IMMEADITLY got upset--is this a good indicator I'm going to see WL and rejects throughout the rest of my applications?!!?!?? I also have a pending C&F (actually, the closure is coming (deferred prosecution), but it can't come fast enough--I won't have it on paper for another week, at least. And then, the whole united states pretty much shuts itself down for Christmas. :roll:

Anybody know anybody who's ever been WL at Idaho? How did it end up for them?

I'm trying to seuss out if it was my AWFUL GPA that waitlisted me, or my C&F issue. Maybe both?

Oh yeah, by the way, my gpa is, um, BAD. I'm a 2.59/154. GPA well below Idaho's 25th percentile, but my LSAT is right on key.
Any advice, ideas, encouragement anyone? PREDICTIONS ANYBODY? :oops:

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sublime
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Re: Waitlisted at Idaho? Is this a bad sign?

Postby sublime » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:21 pm

..

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Nova
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Re: Waitlisted at Idaho? Is this a bad sign?

Postby Nova » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:28 pm

Yeah, youll need to retake to make law school a reasonable decision. You should probably aim for June.

Where are you from?

How did you prep? Maybe try Noodley's http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 6&t=195603

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hephaestus
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Re: Waitlisted at Idaho? Is this a bad sign?

Postby hephaestus » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:30 pm

sublime wrote:This won't be encouraging, but you need to hear it.

With your GPA you need to either retake the LSAT until you hit at least the high 160's so you can get money at a T20ish or until you get 170s and can get in at Northwestern or just not go to LS.

+1. You absolutely need to retake the LSAT and get a 166+, or reconsider law school altogether.

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hephaestus
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Re: Waitlisted at Idaho? Is this a bad sign?

Postby hephaestus » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:31 pm

ETA: double post.

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midwest17
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Re: Waitlisted at Idaho? Is this a bad sign?

Postby midwest17 » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:38 pm

Retake.

Progress01
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Re: Waitlisted at Idaho? Is this a bad sign?

Postby Progress01 » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:38 pm

sublime wrote:This won't be encouraging, but you need to hear it.

With your GPA you need to either retake the LSAT until you hit at least the high 160's so you can get money at a T20ish or until you get 170s and can get in at Northwestern or just not go to LS.



Not encouraging, but thank you anyways. I guess my apps that are in are in, so it is what it is. If you guys think I'll get a lot of Waitlists, I can retake in February. I took in October, after a month of prep. I took 22 credits THIS semester (in addition to having two jobs, and two majors), so I literally did not have the TIME to prepare as I wanted. However, I literally took dozens of timed preptests. It was the LG section that killed me. I did great on the experimental, and the real one is the one I actually ran out of time on.

It'll be a cold day in hell before I get a 165, OR get into a top 30 school. That I know. If there's one thing I've learned in my life, it's that some people are exceptional, and I am not one of them. I think if I retake I won't see a major improvement.

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sublime
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Re: Waitlisted at Idaho? Is this a bad sign?

Postby sublime » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:40 pm

..

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midwest17
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Re: Waitlisted at Idaho? Is this a bad sign?

Postby midwest17 » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:44 pm

Progress01 wrote:
sublime wrote:This won't be encouraging, but you need to hear it.

With your GPA you need to either retake the LSAT until you hit at least the high 160's so you can get money at a T20ish or until you get 170s and can get in at Northwestern or just not go to LS.



Not encouraging, but thank you anyways. I guess my apps that are in are in, so it is what it is. If you guys think I'll get a lot of Waitlists, I can retake in February. I took in October, after a month of prep. I took 22 credits THIS semester (in addition to having two jobs, and two majors), so I literally did not have the TIME to prepare as I wanted. However, I literally took dozens of timed preptests. It was the LG section that killed me. I did great on the experimental, and the real one is the one I actually ran out of time on.

It'll be a cold day in hell before I get a 165, OR get into a top 30 school. That I know. If there's one thing I've learned in my life, it's that some people are exceptional, and I am not one of them. I think if I retake I won't see a major improvement.


You definitely won't see an improvement with this attitude. The LSAT is not an IQ test. It's looking for very specific, learnable skills. They're not necessarily skills that can be learned in a month or two if you don't have solid foundations, but they can still be learned with the proper approach.

You're going to be much better off if you take a year off to work and study for the LSAT, and apply next cycle -- or possibly wait even longer to get more distance between you and that GPA. Not to mention that it will be helpful to apply without a pending C&F issue.

If you're looking at schools like Iowa, you need to aim to get a substantial scholarship, not just barely get in. Those schools may get you a job after you graduate, but it's not going to be a job that allows paying back $250K in debt.

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hephaestus
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Re: Waitlisted at Idaho? Is this a bad sign?

Postby hephaestus » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:47 pm

Here's the thing: you could get into a top 30 school. You could get into some very good ones. Due to declining apps, schools need high LSATs more than they need high GPAs. With a 166+, you could get WUSTL at a deep discount. Think about how much better that would be than Idaho at sticker.

ltrego
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Re: Waitlisted at Idaho? Is this a bad sign?

Postby ltrego » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:48 pm

For the love of God, at least retake to try to get a high enough score to get in a T2. Just look at employment statistics.

Why do you want to go into law? If you don't think you can get a higher LSAT (I'm talking 165+), then maybe consider other career paths. Don't think I'm trying to be harsh. I'm just trying to save you from hundreds of thousands in debt and no job prospects.

drevo
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Re: Waitlisted at Idaho? Is this a bad sign?

Postby drevo » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:54 pm

Progress01 wrote:It'll be a cold day in hell before I get a 165, OR get into a top 30 school. That I know. If there's one thing I've learned in my life, it's that some people are exceptional, and I am not one of them. I think if I retake I won't see a major improvement.


Are you financing law school yourself? Because if your tuition and cost of living isn't being covered by someone like parents (nothing wrong if this is the case) then, if the quoted statement above is true, law school is a terrible investment. Going to a TTTT law school and coming out with a decent job (or really any JD job) is going to require you to be exceptional just to have a chance at servicing the debt.

I'm not trying to be a dick but I personally have friends right now who are in the same type of situation where law school would be an absolutely terrible move for them given their GPA/LSAT and need to take student loans to finance it; and I hate to see people make the mistake of going to law school when it can ruin your financial life. I'm a 0L applying this cycle as well so take this with a grain of salt if you want but I have been researching for years on how shitty the legal field is and really making sure my desire to be a lawyer wouldn't lead me to make a huge life/financial mistake.

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Ron Mexico
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Re: Waitlisted at Idaho? Is this a bad sign?

Postby Ron Mexico » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:55 pm

Are you from Idaho? Why do you want to go to school there?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Waitlisted at Idaho? Is this a bad sign?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:00 pm

If you're not from Idaho, and have no connections to Idaho, being WLed could be more about doubting you'd actually attend than anything else. (I say this in part because you've posted elsewhere that OSU is your top choice, which suggests to me you're not from anywhere near Idaho.)

PalmBay
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Re: Waitlisted at Idaho? Is this a bad sign?

Postby PalmBay » Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:04 pm

I mean, if they didn't want you at all, they could have rejected you, but they didn't. The fast response AND the fact that it's still pretty early in the cycle might indicate that there are issues with your GPA and C/F (if it's something serious).

Honestly ask yourself this question. Why do you want to go to law school? I am in no position to be lecturing you or anything, so please just take this as constructive criticism.

Is there a reason for the 2.x GPA? Did you write an addendum?
If there is no legitimate reason, then you have to understand why a law school might shy away from you.

What about the C/F issue? Did you indicate that you learned something?

Those questions come back full circle to why you want to study law. Is this just something you decided on a whim? If law school was always in your plans, then how did you let your GPA slide? You also probably should have avoided getting into trouble with the law, especially if you want to practice it.

I think the advice that you should re-take is very sound advice. Take time off, study for that LSAT, and make your application stronger with a stronger LSAT score. I think anyone scoring a 154 can improve that greatly. Go volunteer your time at a hospital or around the community and get a strong LOR that speaks to your character and fitness to counter whatever record you may have.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Waitlisted at Idaho? Is this a bad sign?

Postby TheSpanishMain » Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:37 am

Why Idaho? Are you from Idaho? Are you looking to work in Idaho (and ONLY in Idaho)?

It's been said already, but when you're talking about schools like this, you really shouldn't just barely get in and pay sticker price. That would be astronomically dumb. IF you were to go to a school like this (which, unless you have ties to Idaho and want to stay there long term, you probably shouldn't) you need to go for close to free.

It may sound harsh, but your only responsible options are don't go this year and study for an LSAT retake, or not go and do something else entirely. The schools that will take you at your current numbers are not worth attending at the price you'd pay.

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RhymesLikeDimes
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Re: Waitlisted at Idaho? Is this a bad sign?

Postby RhymesLikeDimes » Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:46 am

Applying to Idaho in the first place is a bad sign.

I've been an LSAT tutor for almost two months now, and I hear all the time from people that don't think they're capable of getting out of the 140s or 150s. This is almost never true. What they are really saying is that they don't know how to prepare for it, don't want to put in the effort, or both. Is everyone capable of getting 175? No, but if you're a college graduate (even with standards as pitiful as they are these days) there is no reason you can't get to 160+. And that's where law school is defensible with the right scholarship.

Progress01
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Re: Waitlisted at Idaho? Is this a bad sign?

Postby Progress01 » Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:09 pm

Btw, where are you from and do you want to work in Idaho?

I'm paranoid about giving away too much information (probably sounds stupid, given I'm on a forum and it's not too difficult to piece me together from various posts) because who knows if admissions people come on here, but... I'm from the southwest. I could take or leave Idaho, depending on if they gave me $$$. If you look at LSN, there's a lot of people with similar numbers who DID get in Idaho, with some $$$. And their instate tuition isn't bad. I figured it's not bad to cast a wide net and see what happens.

To give you guys a little more backstory: I DO have some softs. That includes a vast amount of community involvement/service. Ultimately, from what I've heard, I don't think schools care much at all about that.
That GPA didn't become that way from being a slacker. I've been taking college classes since I was a freshman in high school--try going back and telling your 15 year old self that those 4 credit Cs will come back to haunt you one day. :( The rest of the bad grades are from university math, physics, and chemistry classes. It wasn't that I was sitting in a dorm somewhere not going to class--I was getting tutored, working 2 jobs, and trying to pass precalc without having ever finished algebra I in high school. That's what kills me inside: numbers. Schools would rather see a 3.6 in underwater basketweaving, than a 2.xxxx in Biology.

I can retake the LSAT, but it will be so far into the cycle I don't know it will matter for this year.

And yes, OSU is the dream school, but it's definitely not even a REACH. Optimally, I would like to go to a school on the east coast or in the Midwest. I have a big interest in environmental (the bio background) so Vermont would be fantastic too.

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PepperJack
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Re: Waitlisted at Idaho? Is this a bad sign?

Postby PepperJack » Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:21 pm

Your LSAT is killing you too. Was that from when you were 15? In their eyes, you're either lazy or not bright enough.

Numbers don't lie. If you think you can do well if you try despite not having any real evidence, then you should create some real evidence with a better LSAT. You say the problem is not your LSAT or GPA but that schools favor high basketweaving GPA's. However, how many basketweavers do you think there actually are in LS? There's lots of bio majors.

Casting a wide net is a very bad idea. I don't understand why you're fine going to any state with a 5% chance of getting a job when you could just retake the LSAT, have a 50/50 shot and stay in your hometown.

Progress01
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Re: Waitlisted at Idaho? Is this a bad sign?

Postby Progress01 » Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:06 pm

PepperJack wrote:Your LSAT is killing you too. Was that from when you were 15? In their eyes, you're either lazy or not bright enough..

Touche. I might be seeing a February LSAT in my future... I was PTing in the low 160s. I definitely think I can improve, but taking in December during finals week (a la, TODAY) didn't make sense. That leaves me with February.

I did follow a lot of the study strategies I found on here, and the rest of the web.

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Louis1127
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Re: Waitlisted at Idaho? Is this a bad sign?

Postby Louis1127 » Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:14 pm

midwest17 wrote: You definitely won't see an improvement with this attitude.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Waitlisted at Idaho? Is this a bad sign?

Postby TheSpanishMain » Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:39 pm

Progress01 wrote:
I can retake the LSAT, but it will be so far into the cycle I don't know it will matter for this year.


Forget this year. Your numbers for this year aren't good enough to get you into a decent school at a decent price. Take a year off. You're just finishing undergrad. Having a year of work experience can only help you.

In the meantime, study and do more research. I don't think you really understand how law school and legal hiring tends to work. Unless you go to a national school, you need to go to a regional school in an area you want to stay. You trying to go to Idaho makes no sense anyway.

HYSenberg
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Re: Waitlisted at Idaho? Is this a bad sign?

Postby HYSenberg » Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:26 pm

Outside of the T12 rankings don't matter that much because every school is largely regional. Casting a wide net from coast to coast of poorly ranked schools makes little sense because you have no ties and are making a difficult job market even harder because employers will suspect you won't stay long-term. Retake and wait a year if you have to, or don't go to law school; it's certainly no panacea to any kind of employment problem.

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midwest17
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Re: Waitlisted at Idaho? Is this a bad sign?

Postby midwest17 » Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:27 pm

HYSenberg wrote:T12


I see what you did there.

HYSenberg
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Re: Waitlisted at Idaho? Is this a bad sign?

Postby HYSenberg » Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:32 pm

midwest17 wrote:
HYSenberg wrote:T12


I see what you did there.


C/G only place in like two cities each. There are some exceptions, but both are much less national than the rest of the T14.




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