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(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
DR3
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Postby DR3 » Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:12 pm

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Last edited by DR3 on Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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midwest17
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Re: K-JD - Disadvantage?

Postby midwest17 » Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:20 pm

My (0L) guess would be that if K-JD is a disadvantage for anyone, it's a disadvantage for splitters. I don't know that we have any good data on how big the effect is. I'd recommend applying to the schools you want to go to, but being prepared to sit out a cycle or two if you don't get offers that are worth taking.

bp shinners
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Re: K-JD - Disadvantage?

Postby bp shinners » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:05 pm

midwest17 wrote:My (0L) guess would be that if K-JD is a disadvantage for anyone, it's a disadvantage for splitters. I don't know that we have any good data on how big the effect is. I'd recommend applying to the schools you want to go to, but being prepared to sit out a cycle or two if you don't get offers that are worth taking.


Good advice.

That high-LSAT/low-GPA split for a K-JD makes me worry about their ability to focus on academics (especially if it's not because of a bad first semester or two). They're clearly smart, but don't apply themselves. A few years work experience would help that perception.

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wowhio
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Re: K-JD - Disadvantage?

Postby wowhio » Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:56 am

midwest17 wrote:My (0L) guess would be that if K-JD is a disadvantage for anyone, it's a disadvantage for splitters.


This could very well be right, but just for some anecdotal evidence to suggest otherwise... I'm 3.5x/177 and K-JD applying right now. I've gotten five acceptances so far all from within the T-14, including an acceptance at my first choice that's known for "caring more about GPA than LSAT."

daryldixon
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Re: K-JD - Disadvantage?

Postby daryldixon » Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:27 am

Schools usually don't care (except Northwestern). The real problem will be doing well at OCI. You need good grades as a K-JD or you are pretty much SOL at OCI (and therefore SOL in life).

DR3
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Postby DR3 » Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:35 pm

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Last edited by DR3 on Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

DR3
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Re: K-JD - Disadvantage?

Postby DR3 » Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:38 pm

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Last edited by DR3 on Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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thesealocust
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Re: K-JD - Disadvantage?

Postby thesealocust » Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:43 pm

It's a real disadvantage when hunting for a job once you get into school as well.

I was a K-JD and glad I did it because there was nothing else I wanted to be doing for a year or three, but it's a bit hard to recommend given how obviously having work experience was helpful when it came to the job hunt.

bp shinners
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Re: K-JD - Disadvantage?

Postby bp shinners » Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:58 pm

wowhio wrote:
midwest17 wrote:My (0L) guess would be that if K-JD is a disadvantage for anyone, it's a disadvantage for splitters.


This could very well be right, but just for some anecdotal evidence to suggest otherwise... I'm 3.5x/177 and K-JD applying right now. I've gotten five acceptances so far all from within the T-14, including an acceptance at my first choice that's known for "caring more about GPA than LSAT."


3.5 isn't particularly low for anything outside HYS (maybe Berkeley and Chicago), and I stop considering people splitters when they hit 175 with the current decline in people with a top LSAT score.

If we can find a 2.8/173 with your track record, then I'd be more inclined to flip sides in the debate!

daryldixon
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Re: K-JD - Disadvantage?

Postby daryldixon » Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:42 am

DR3 wrote:Unless you are suggesting that good grades in law school are even more essential for a K-JD given the lack of W.E., in which case I'd be more inclined to agree with you. Although I do wonder to what extent that really plays a role, given the fact that most non K-JDs do not have work experience in BigLaw or similar lines of work. I would imagine non K-JDs have a slight advantage but not to a tremendous degree. Though, admittedly, this is entirely conjectural.

I am saying that K-JDs only have grades to rely on. So they live and die by their grades during OCI. However, students with significant W/E can pull offers easier without good grades. It is very dependent on the type of work experience and the firm but it gives you a very legit bump. I have seen people with bottom quarter grades get big law at my T14 based on former careers in IP related fields. I have also seen student with former careers in banking, finance, or tax have significant bumps at OCI as well.

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altoid99
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Re: K-JD - Disadvantage?

Postby altoid99 » Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:15 am

daryldixon wrote:
DR3 wrote:Unless you are suggesting that good grades in law school are even more essential for a K-JD given the lack of W.E., in which case I'd be more inclined to agree with you. Although I do wonder to what extent that really plays a role, given the fact that most non K-JDs do not have work experience in BigLaw or similar lines of work. I would imagine non K-JDs have a slight advantage but not to a tremendous degree. Though, admittedly, this is entirely conjectural.

I am saying that K-JDs only have grades to rely on. So they live and die by their grades during OCI. However, students with significant W/E can pull offers easier without good grades. It is very dependent on the type of work experience and the firm but it gives you a very legit bump. I have seen people with bottom quarter grades get big law at my T14 based on former careers in IP related fields. I have also seen student with former careers in banking, finance, or tax have significant bumps at OCI as well.


I agree that relevant work experience is an advantage. But I wouldn't go so far as to say that K-JD's are SOL if they dont have stellar grades 1L. On average, what..about 2/3 of 1Ls are K-JD's at T14s (not sure of the exact percentage, just going off what I've seen on class profiles on schools' websites) and well over 50% end up with desirable jobs from these schools? There's clearly some overlap and plenty of K-JD's get these jobs. Obviously not discounting work experience, but I think the advantage may be even more pronounced at the lower ranked schools.

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koalacity
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Re: K-JD - Disadvantage?

Postby koalacity » Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:46 am

altoid99 wrote:
I agree that relevant work experience is an advantage. But I wouldn't go so far as to say that K-JD's are SOL if they dont have stellar grades 1L. On average, what..about 2/3 of 1Ls are K-JD's at T14s (not sure of the exact percentage, just going off what I've seen on class profiles on schools' websites) and well over 50% end up with desirable jobs from these schools? There's clearly some overlap and plenty of K-JD's get these jobs. Obviously not discounting work experience, but I think the advantage may be even more pronounced at the lower ranked schools.

I don't think this estimate is right. K-JDs are only around 20-30% of the class at HYS, for example. Same at Michigan and Berkeley. NU only has ~10% K-JDs. I don't think K-JDs are the majority of the class at any T14.

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thesealocust
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Re: K-JD - Disadvantage?

Postby thesealocust » Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:27 pm

63% have work experience at UVA law: http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/about/factsstats.htm

NU is clearly and obviously an outlier.

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koalacity
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Re: K-JD - Disadvantage?

Postby koalacity » Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:38 pm

thesealocust wrote:63% have work experience at UVA law: http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/about/factsstats.htm

NU is clearly and obviously an outlier.

Yeah, I mean, UVA's proportion of K-JDs is higher than some of the other T14 (and NU is obviously known for heavily valuing WE and is an outlier), but I still don't think there are any T14 schools where the majority of 1Ls are K-JDs, let alone 2/3rds. This may not have been the case 5-10 years ago, though-I think the proportion of people with post-college WE has increased over the last few years.

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Legisperitus
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Re: K-JD - Disadvantage?

Postby Legisperitus » Sun Dec 29, 2013 3:25 pm

I think the biggest disadvantage for K-JDs is that it makes it tough to get into Northwestern, which is the most splitter-friendly of the T14. If your GPA is not too low and you're ok with not getting Northwestern, it shouldn't be that big of a deal from an admissions standpoint, as long as you have some other decent softs that can make up for it.

acrossthelake
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Re: K-JD - Disadvantage?

Postby acrossthelake » Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:52 pm

thesealocust wrote:It's a real disadvantage when hunting for a job once you get into school as well.

I was a K-JD and glad I did it because there was nothing else I wanted to be doing for a year or three, but it's a bit hard to recommend given how obviously having work experience was helpful when it came to the job hunt.


+1 I wasn't a splitter, but if I had been, it would have probably been a bad idea.




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