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iamgeorgebush
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Re: should I transfer to an easier undergrad?

Postby iamgeorgebush » Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:26 pm

hcrimson2014 wrote:To echo the above poster, CAL, supposedly the most prestigious UC campus, had a GPA median at 3.20, whereas the GPA median for UCSD was something like 3.01 while Harvard college, the YLS of undergrad education, actually boasted a gpa median close to 3.5. Many less prestigious institutions actually implement harder curves than the more renowned ones. So you need to do the necessary research, transferring from Harvard to Duke probably won't make an impact on your grades.

The above argument is flawed because...

The students are Harvard, etc. could be are of a higher caliber than the students at UCSD, etc., so of course they're going to get better grades. You think a Harvard student with a 3.4 or a UC Berkeley student with a 3.2 would get a 3.0 at UCSD? :roll:

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alexjinye
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Re: should I transfer to an easier undergrad?

Postby alexjinye » Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:49 am

ehhhhh...thanks for comments. I am dead set for law school, although there are still uncertainties. so gpa would be my 1# priority.

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MistakenGenius
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Postby MistakenGenius » Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:46 pm

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DrStudMuffin
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Re: should I transfer to an easier undergrad?

Postby DrStudMuffin » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:08 pm

MistakenGenius wrote:
DrStudMuffin wrote:
Aren't you the dude who made the thread asking if your softs could overcome your 3.79 at HYS? Lol.


I made a post asking if my softs and perfect LSAT could overcome my 3.79 at top schools? What's your point?

Aren't you the dude who has never contributed anything of worth to this board? Lol.


Image

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alexjinye
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Re: should I transfer to an easier undergrad?

Postby alexjinye » Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:20 pm

I did some research these days.
It seems that there is no fault to go to school like ASU... I pay some ridiculous amount of money to go to this TOP20 LAC and getting mediocre grades, whereas in ASU I can save money and get perfect grades.
Plus, ASU barrett honor college looks ideal! So, I am positive toward ASU.
Any thoughts?

PalmBay
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Re: should I transfer to an easier undergrad?

Postby PalmBay » Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:37 pm

What are you going to do when you transfer and realize it's not a cake-walk?
I think it's a bit smug to just assume a school is "easier". Maybe you've had tough classes.

Plus, what does it say about yourself if you're going to run from a challenging environment? That's something you could potentially include in your personal statement.

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wiz
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Re: should I transfer to an easier undergrad?

Postby wiz » Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:22 pm

midnight_circus wrote:True enough, I am a 0L. Accusing me of ignorance is vastly different than accusing me of being disingenuous, and a criticism I am more than happy to accept.

ETA:I just looked it up to make sure I wasn't too far off-base and (although they were simply meant as examples and we really do not need to continue arguing about this) according to LST score reports, Harvard's employment score is 87.1% and Duke's is only 85.3%. As an ignorant 0L, I stand by my statement that my ug was worth that 2%.


Except it's not 2%. For a lot of students, the question is whether the school is worth $150k or $200k of student debt. To repay that, you pretty much need biglaw (or a strong LRAP program).

Coming from Duke, you have about a 60% chance of biglaw, while at Harvard, you have around a 90-100% chance (if you want it). I'm oversimplifying things, obviously, but there's way more than a 2% difference between these schools. Both are great law schools, but you'd need to say your UG experience was worth 40% or so. That's a sizable chunk. As they say at H, "straight P's = 160G's." Get too far below median at Duke, and you're in shaky territory.

That said, this is a pointless discussion because given your profile, you're a lock at H and as close to a lock at YS as one can possibly be. You're YSH-bound unless you opt for a full scholly at CCN or something. Again, it's easy to say you'd be content with a lower T14 + awesome undergrad experience (versus YSH + less awesome undergrad experience) when you haven't been through OCI yet.

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wiz
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Re: should I transfer to an easier undergrad?

Postby wiz » Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:27 pm

alexjinye wrote:I did some research these days.
It seems that there is no fault to go to school like ASU... I pay some ridiculous amount of money to go to this TOP20 LAC and getting mediocre grades, whereas in ASU I can save money and get perfect grades.
Plus, ASU barrett honor college looks ideal! So, I am positive toward ASU.
Any thoughts?


Money is a legit reason to transfer. I'm not sure how you're so certain about getting perfect grades though.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: should I transfer to an easier undergrad?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:31 pm

alexjinye wrote:I did some research these days.
It seems that there is no fault to go to school like ASU... I pay some ridiculous amount of money to go to this TOP20 LAC and getting mediocre grades, whereas in ASU I can save money and get perfect grades.
Plus, ASU barrett honor college looks ideal! So, I am positive toward ASU.
Any thoughts?

If you want to save money, that's a great reason to transfer. But you can't know that you'll get perfect grades anywhere, regardless of the school, and to say so reeks of arrogance. I've taught at schools up and down the rankings, and the students who get perfect grades at a state school like ASU would get perfect grades anywhere - they are EXCELLENT students. ASU may have a wider range of grades, or more people at the bottom of the spectrum, than schools with less selective admissions processes (although, note that honors colleges frequently do have more stringent entrance requirements and you will end up competing with the top students from the school again). It may even be slightly easier to get B+es at a school with very open admissions policies than at a more selective school, depending on what courses you're taking. But getting straight As anywhere requires being an excellent student.

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alexjinye
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Re: should I transfer to an easier undergrad?

Postby alexjinye » Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:04 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
alexjinye wrote:I did some research these days.
It seems that there is no fault to go to school like ASU... I pay some ridiculous amount of money to go to this TOP20 LAC and getting mediocre grades, whereas in ASU I can save money and get perfect grades.
Plus, ASU barrett honor college looks ideal! So, I am positive toward ASU.
Any thoughts?

If you want to save money, that's a great reason to transfer. But you can't know that you'll get perfect grades anywhere, regardless of the school, and to say so reeks of arrogance. I've taught at schools up and down the rankings, and the students who get perfect grades at a state school like ASU would get perfect grades anywhere - they are EXCELLENT students. ASU may have a wider range of grades, or more people at the bottom of the spectrum, than schools with less selective admissions processes (although, note that honors colleges frequently do have more stringent entrance requirements and you will end up competing with the top students from the school again). It may even be slightly easier to get B+es at a school with very open admissions policies than at a more selective school, depending on what courses you're taking. But getting straight As anywhere requires being an excellent student.

good point. In a big school, I will have more choices for easy classes, whereas in my LAC there are not many. I believe that even if I didn't get straight A eventually, I can still pull up a very decent gpa, since there are generally less competition and more easy courses. do you think so?
The good thing about honor college is that students can get the best accomodation such as the separate residence hall, gym, and dining hall. At the same time, you are still able to take normal classes if you want.
If I can go to a lower tier school's honor college, I will be sure to just take normal classes all the time to compete with normal state school student. I know this is snobbish, but in order to do gpa-wise things, I'll be ok with it.

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redsox
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Re: should I transfer to an easier undergrad?

Postby redsox » Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:24 pm

Is English your first language?

Noodlebrain
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Re: should I transfer to an easier undergrad?

Postby Noodlebrain » Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:28 pm

redsox wrote:Is English your first language?


He's Chinese. I teach in China and my students all make the exact same mistakes. Also his name is JinYe.

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alexjinye
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Re: should I transfer to an easier undergrad?

Postby alexjinye » Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:02 am

too bad I am not native speaker

Noodlebrain
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Re: should I transfer to an easier undergrad?

Postby Noodlebrain » Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:06 am

alexjinye wrote:too bad I am not native speaker


You should be proud of your language accomplishments. English is really hard and your English is solid. Most naysayers in the States can barely speak respectable English as it stands much less any other language.

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alexjinye
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Re: should I transfer to an easier undergrad?

Postby alexjinye » Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:12 am

woah
Last edited by alexjinye on Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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alexjinye
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Re: should I transfer to an easier undergrad?

Postby alexjinye » Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:37 am

.
Last edited by alexjinye on Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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redsox
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Re: should I transfer to an easier undergrad?

Postby redsox » Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:44 am

alexjinye wrote:Admittedly, there are a lot more less intelligent people and people who can't even speak proper English in ASU. So I just refuse to make friends with those group of people. It's just two years, then I am done. 8)


Wait, seriously? People who aren't as smart as you can't be your friends? What's wrong with you?

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alexjinye
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Re: should I transfer to an easier undergrad?

Postby alexjinye » Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:56 am

..
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Cellar-door
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Re: should I transfer to an easier undergrad?

Postby Cellar-door » Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:15 am

iamgeorgebush wrote:
Clearly wrote:Many top 20s grade INFLATE, and many state schools are absurdly difficult...

This must be why, in the Boalt internal study of how hard it is to get A's at various undergraduate institutions, the hardest 17 are all highly-ranked private schools, and the first "state school" (i.e. a state-funded school that is not highly ranked [i.e. UC Berkeley, UVA, etc. wouldn't count]) is #53:

Swarthmore 89.5
Williams 89.0
Duke 88.5
Carleton 88.0
Colgate 88.0
J. Hopkins 87.5
Chicago 87.0
Dartmouth 87.0
Wesleyan 87.0
Cornell 86.5
Harvard 86.5
Middlebury 86.0
Princeton 86.0
Bates 85.5
MIT 85.5
Haverford 85.0
Pomona 85.0
Virginia 85.0
Amherst 84.5
Reed 84.5
Vanderbilt 84.5
Wm & Mary 84.5
Bowdoin 83.5
Tufts 83.5
Vassar 83.5
Bryn Mawr 83.0
Hamilton 83.0
Oberlin 83.0
Rice 83.0
U. Pennsylvania 83.0
Clrmt. McK. 82.5
Yale 82.5
Brandeis 82.0
Northwestern 82.0
Colby 81.5
Michigan 81.5
Notre Dame 81.5
Wash. U. 81.0
Barnard 80.5
Columbia 80.5
Stanford 80.5
Brown 80.0
Georgetown 80.0
Smith 80.0
Wellesley 80.0
Emory 79.5
U. North Carolina 79.5
Whitman C. 79.5
Rochester 79.0
UC Berkeley 78.5
UC San Diego 78.5
Illinois 78.0
SUNY Bing 78.0
Texas 78.0
Trinity U. 77.5
Boston College 77.0
UC S. Barbara 77.0
Wisconsin 77.0
Florida 76.5
U. Washington 76.5
Santa Clara 76.0
Geo. Wash. 75.5
UC Davis 75.5
UCLA 75.5
Colorado 75.0
Michigan State 75.0
Boston University 74.5
Cal Poly SLO 74.5
Massachusetts 74.0
Penn State 74.0
Iowa 73.5
Purdue 73.5
SMU 73.5
SUNY Albany 73.5
BYU 73.0
Minnesota 73.0
Ohio State 73.0
Oregon 73.0
UC Irvine 73.0
Indiana 72.5
NYU 72.0
SUNY Buff 72.0
SUNY Stony 72.0
Mills 71.5
American 71.0
Arizona 71.0
Loyola Mary. 71.0
Maryland 71.0
Fordham 70.5
Kansas 70.0
Syracuse 70.0
USC 70.0
Arizona St. 69.5
CS San Diego 69.5
Catholic U. 69.5
Oklahoma 69.5
Pacific 69.5
Hofstra 69.0
UC Riverside 68.5
Utah 68.5
CS Chico 68.5
Miami 68.0
New Mexico 68.0
San Diego 68.0
CS Northridge 67.0
Pepperdine 67.0
CS San Fran. 66.0
CS Sacramento 65.0
Hawaii 64.5
Denver 63.5
CS Fullerton 63.0
CS Hayward 63.0
CS Long Beach 63.0
CS San Jose 63.0
CS Fresno 62.5
St. Mary's 61.5
CCNY 59.0
CS LA 58.5
Howard 57.5
San Francisco 57.5


tl;dr - yes, it is easier to get higher grades at certain schools, and those schools tend to be lower-ranked "state schools." Granted, private schools are represented in that category as well, but none of them are top 20.

HOWEVER...how would you explain your transfer to law schools?

And how the hell can already you know with any certainty that you want to go to law school? If you transfer but end up deciding law school isn't for you (or can't manage to get a good LSAT score), then you've graduated from Penn State instead of Vassar or w/e and are in a worse place for jobs.


I'd love to see the methodology and data on that study.
For example, as recently as this year the median at Harvard (10th hardest by their methodology) is an A- and the most commonly awarded grade is an A. http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2013/ ... on-mode-a/

Yale is also on that list, and from the same article, apparently from 2010-2012 62% of all grades given out were A- or better.

Edit- Harvard actually had to cap the number of straight As that professors could give out at 35% for regular classes and 55% for independent studies and the number of students receiving latin honors was capped at 60% after they were somewhat embarrassed by an article in the Boston Globe that 91% of one year's graduating class graduated with Honors.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: should I transfer to an easier undergrad?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:54 am

I'm pretty sure the Boalt study is from the 90s.

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iamgeorgebush
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Re: should I transfer to an easier undergrad?

Postby iamgeorgebush » Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:23 am

Cellar-door wrote:I'd love to see the methodology and data on that study.
For example, as recently as this year the median at Harvard (10th hardest by their methodology) is an A- and the most commonly awarded grade is an A. http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2013/ ... on-mode-a/

Yale is also on that list, and from the same article, apparently from 2010-2012 62% of all grades given out were A- or better.

Edit- Harvard actually had to cap the number of straight As that professors could give out at 35% for regular classes and 55% for independent studies and the number of students receiving latin honors was capped at 60% after they were somewhat embarrassed by an article in the Boston Globe that 91% of one year's graduating class graduated with Honors.

Considering that most people who go to Harvard and Yale had straight A's during high school, is it really that surprising that they continue to get A's in college? If you were to take an average Harvard or Yale student and put her at the typical state school, I bet she'd do even better than at Harvard. Just look at the OP, who transferred from a tough LAC to a state school and is now doing much much better.

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everything_bagel
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Re: should I transfer to an easier undergrad?

Postby everything_bagel » Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:45 am

snip
Last edited by everything_bagel on Sat Jul 02, 2016 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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redsox
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Re: should I transfer to an easier undergrad?

Postby redsox » Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:21 pm

iamgeorgebush wrote:Considering that most people who go to Harvard and Yale had straight A's during high school, is it really that surprising that they continue to get A's in college? If you were to take an average Harvard or Yale student and put her at the typical state school, I bet she'd do even better than at Harvard. Just look at the OP, who transferred from a tough LAC to a state school and is now doing much much better.


iamgeorgebush, champion of grade inflation.

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crazycanuck
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Re: should I transfer to an easier undergrad?

Postby crazycanuck » Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:43 pm

Not sure of this has been discussed yet, but the OP might want to consider the major. Majors that have a lot of papers and long written question can be more difficult as the grade depends a lot on who is marking it, the time of day they are marking it, etc. I would recommend a more black and white major such as accounting where a question is either right or wrong. This reduces a lot of the guess work with trying to figure out what a marker wants and if you study it enough and do enough practice questions it's pretty easy to get straight As.

Just my $0.02.

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alexjinye
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Re: should I transfer to an easier undergrad?

Postby alexjinye » Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:11 pm

.
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