I don't get it. Is GULC a good school or not?

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EntJ
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I don't get it. Is GULC a good school or not?

Postby EntJ » Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:40 am

GULC seems to have a lot of haters on here, some people even excluding it from T-14. Is that just TLS elitism or are there some serious problems with this school I'm just not getting?

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Law Sauce
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Re: I don't get it. Is GULC a good school or not?

Postby Law Sauce » Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:47 am

It just has a very large class size and a slightly lower percentage Biglaw placement. Some will argue that this is due to the large number of people who go into DC public interest or government. Others will say that it really just does not have the placement power because DC is such a saturated market. Nonetheless, it is still an elite school that has national placement power (unlike non-T14 schools), but if probably does give you the worse chance at Biglaw of the t14 due to its large class size.

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Re: I don't get it. Is GULC a good school or not?

Postby BigZuck » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:09 am

EntJ wrote:GULC seems to have a lot of haters on here, some people even excluding it from T-14. Is that just TLS elitism or are there some serious problems with this school I'm just not getting?


What do you think of their job placement versus the rest of the T14?

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McGruff
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Re: I don't get it. Is GULC a good school or not?

Postby McGruff » Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:30 pm

Describing a law school as "a good school", without clarifying specifically what you mean, isn't super helpful. I grant that it's tempting (especially when you're talking to people who don't know about law schools) but it's also a good way to gloss over things like enormous pricetags and ugly markets. It's better than some, worse than others, but when you're dropping (or, more likely, going in debt) 250k, you need to spend a lot of time with their employment statistics and ask whether you'll be glad you did if you wind up at median. A bunch of people graduating from GULC right now are in a really terrible spot, while a bunch of their classmates are in really great shape. Given the folly of assuming you'll be top of the class, the question isn't whether or not it's a good school, it's whether or not it's a good enough school.

No one can tell you whether or not it will have been worth it (unlike real TTTs, which turn out to be a worthwhile investment about 0.1% of the time) but it's something to think long and hard about.

californiauser
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Re: I don't get it. Is GULC a good school or not?

Postby californiauser » Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:38 pm

It's the "worst" T14 for big law -- this website is big law and T14 focused, hence its "bad" reviews on here.

rad lulz
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Re: I don't get it. Is GULC a good school or not?

Postby rad lulz » Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:45 pm

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Last edited by rad lulz on Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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midwest17
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Re: I don't get it. Is GULC a good school or not?

Postby midwest17 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:28 pm

Is GULC worth it if you want to clerk and then work as a PD?

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stillwater
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Re: I don't get it. Is GULC a good school or not?

Postby stillwater » Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:29 pm

midwest17 wrote:Is GULC worth it if you want to clerk and then work as a PD?


no.

kosullivan23
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Re: I don't get it. Is GULC a good school or not?

Postby kosullivan23 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:24 pm

midwest17 wrote:Is GULC worth it if you want to clerk and then work as a PD?


For wanting to be a PD, I would say that GULC is a pretty strong school. It seems like there's a fair amount of pd's that graduated from gulc who work at some of more prestigious public defender offices in the country. GULC also seems to have strong clinical criminal defense offerings, and the LRAP program seems pretty good. You would also be able to volunteer at PDS throughout the school year an investigator or law clerk, which I imagine could somewhat improve your chances of being able to land a job there.

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Re: I don't get it. Is GULC a good school or not?

Postby BigZuck » Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:29 pm

kosullivan23 wrote:
midwest17 wrote:Is GULC worth it if you want to clerk and then work as a PD?


For wanting to be a PD, I would say that GULC is a pretty strong school. It seems like there's a fair amount of pd's that graduated from gulc who work at some of more prestigious public defender offices in the country. GULC also seems to have strong clinical criminal defense offerings, and the LRAP program seems pretty good. You would also be able to volunteer at PDS throughout the school year an investigator or law clerk, which I imagine could somewhat improve your chances of being able to land a job there.


Do you work for GULC?

Just kidding bro, you're cool. But yeah, no sure any school is a good choice if you want to clerk and then do PI except for maybe HYS.

Why did the OP create an account to ask this one question and then duck out? Just hoping to start an Internet fight?

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cotiger
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Re: I don't get it. Is GULC a good school or not?

Postby cotiger » Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:45 pm

The deal with GULC is that it places significantly fewer grads into the unambiguously positive outcomes of federal clerkships and biglaw than the rest of the T14. It is, however, a much more government and PI oriented school than the others in the lower T14, so those numbers don't tell the whole story.

The Gov/PI category, though, is much more ambiguous when it comes to judging the desirability of the jobs. With biglaw, whether you get the "best" firm or the "worst," you're still making 160k. With clerkships, even if you get a district judge when you wanted COA, you're still in a very elite, highly sought after position. There is a much larger range of possible jobs in the Gov/PI categories.

Georgetown's problem is that even if you count every single one of their significant number of JD Advantage, Gov/PI, and school-funded positions as being a desired outcome (which is not likely), they still come in last place of the T14. If you're even slightly less generous with one of those categories, a wide gap develops. That wide gap between GULC and the rest of the lower T14 also exists when looking at underemployment numbers.

The rest of the lower T14 all have essentially equal employment stats. GULC's are significantly worse by a variety of metrics. That doesn't mean that it's a "bad" school or that it's not worth going to. There are legitimate reasons why someone might pick GULC, but for the typical applicant who is generically looking at "T14" schools, GULC should not really be on their radar.

More in-depth numbers were gone over ITT: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=219104

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twenty
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Re: I don't get it. Is GULC a good school or not?

Postby twenty » Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:10 pm

There are absolutely reasons to pick GULC over everything below UPenn. Biglaw just isn't one of them -- and that's a really big reason for the vast majority of posters.

EntJ
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Re: I don't get it. Is GULC a good school or not?

Postby EntJ » Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:58 pm

BigZuck wrote:
kosullivan23 wrote:
midwest17 wrote:Is GULC worth it if you want to clerk and then work as a PD?


For wanting to be a PD, I would say that GULC is a pretty strong school. It seems like there's a fair amount of pd's that graduated from gulc who work at some of more prestigious public defender offices in the country. GULC also seems to have strong clinical criminal defense offerings, and the LRAP program seems pretty good. You would also be able to volunteer at PDS throughout the school year an investigator or law clerk, which I imagine could somewhat improve your chances of being able to land a job there.


Do you work for GULC?

Just kidding bro, you're cool. But yeah, no sure any school is a good choice if you want to clerk and then do PI except for maybe HYS.

Why did the OP create an account to ask this one question and then duck out? Just hoping to start an Internet fight?


Haha, nah I'm still here. Cut me some slack! I just made this thread and I'm a LONG TIME lurker.

There have been some interesting opinions in this thread. Since I'm thinking PI and want to work in Washington, looks like GLUC may not be a bad choice if I can get the funds.

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twenty
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Re: I don't get it. Is GULC a good school or not?

Postby twenty » Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:26 pm

If you honestly want PI in DC and anything else would be a unequivocal failure to you (and assuming you don't get HYS), I'd seriously consider EDing to GWU for the full ride. Its Washington PI placement power is about as good as GULC's (factoring in that GWU has 20% of its graduates on fellowships while only 6% of GULC's on fellowships, but then GWU has a 32% PI score and GULC has a 25% score.) But instead of paying monies and having to use GULC's albeit-great LRAP, you have substantially more freedom when it becomes clear you can pay off your loans on a PI salary in a few years.

Again, a lot of people will give you shit for the "HOMG GULC >>>>>>> GWU" but that's all due to the fact that GWU's biglaw placement blows chunks. Not that GULC's doesn't either, but just less so. Also, because US News says GULC > GWU.

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cotiger
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Re: I don't get it. Is GULC a good school or not?

Postby cotiger » Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:38 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:If you honestly want PI in DC and anything else would be a unequivocal failure to you (and assuming you don't get HYS), I'd seriously consider EDing to GWU for the full ride. Its Washington PI placement power is about as good as GULC's (factoring in that GWU has 20% of its graduates on fellowships while only 6% of GULC's on fellowships, but then GWU has a 32% PI score and GULC has a 25% score.) But instead of paying monies and having to use GULC's albeit-great LRAP, you have substantially more freedom when it becomes clear you can pay off your loans on a PI salary in a few years.

Again, a lot of people will give you shit for the "HOMG GULC >>>>>>> GWU" but that's all due to the fact that GWU's biglaw placement blows chunks. Not that GULC's doesn't either, but just less so. Also, because US News says GULC > GWU.


I like this idea.

The problem with GULC isn't that it's a bad school. The problem with GULC is that it's waaaay too expensive for what you get.

EntJ
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Re: I don't get it. Is GULC a good school or not?

Postby EntJ » Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:45 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:If you honestly want PI in DC and anything else would be a unequivocal failure to you (and assuming you don't get HYS), I'd seriously consider EDing to GWU for the full ride. Its Washington PI placement power is about as good as GULC's (factoring in that GWU has 20% of its graduates on fellowships while only 6% of GULC's on fellowships, but then GWU has a 32% PI score and GULC has a 25% score.) But instead of paying monies and having to use GULC's albeit-great LRAP, you have substantially more freedom when it becomes clear you can pay off your loans on a PI salary in a few years.

Again, a lot of people will give you shit for the "HOMG GULC >>>>>>> GWU" but that's all due to the fact that GWU's biglaw placement blows chunks. Not that GULC's doesn't either, but just less so. Also, because US News says GULC > GWU.


Great point. Do I need to ED for this the full ride though? Can't I apply regular?

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twenty
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Re: I don't get it. Is GULC a good school or not?

Postby twenty » Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:55 pm

The ED guarantees it, but if you're above both medians I wouldn't be surprised if you were able to negotiate up to it.

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outlawscr10
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Re: I don't get it. Is GULC a good school or not?

Postby outlawscr10 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:52 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:The ED guarantees it, but if you're above both medians I wouldn't be surprised if you were able to negotiate up to it.


Negotiate up to about a 150k scholarship, you mean?

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twenty
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Re: I don't get it. Is GULC a good school or not?

Postby twenty » Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:26 pm

Yeah, above both medians (I plugged the mylsn data at 169 + 3.8~) should easily be able to negotiate up to 120k at GWU. Perhaps the extra 20k-30k short of the full ride is the price of having more options.

Ti Malice
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Re: I don't get it. Is GULC a good school or not?

Postby Ti Malice » Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:38 pm

cotiger wrote:The problem with GULC isn't that it's a bad school. The problem with GULC is that it's waaaay too expensive for what you get.


Exactly. Since GULC is so stingy with aid, people admitted there usually have at least one better option.

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Re: I don't get it. Is GULC a good school or not?

Postby 04102014 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:51 pm

Ti Malice wrote:
cotiger wrote:The problem with GULC isn't that it's a bad school. The problem with GULC is that it's waaaay too expensive for what you get.


Exactly. Since GULC is so stingy with aid, people admitted there usually have at least one better option.


Just want to second this. It's amazing that they're able to fill such a large class with decent numbers considering how ridiculously stingy they can be.

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cotiger
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Re: I don't get it. Is GULC a good school or not?

Postby cotiger » Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:39 pm

ohpobrecito wrote:
Ti Malice wrote:
cotiger wrote:The problem with GULC isn't that it's a bad school. The problem with GULC is that it's waaaay too expensive for what you get.


Exactly. Since GULC is so stingy with aid, people admitted there usually have at least one better option.


Just want to second this. It's amazing that they're able to fill such a large class with decent numbers considering how ridiculously stingy they can be.


I think it's from all the people who specifically want DC (either biglaw or Gov/PI) and can't get YHS.

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Cicero76
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Re: I don't get it. Is GULC a good school or not?

Postby Cicero76 » Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:16 am

midwest17 wrote:Is GULC worth it if you want to clerk and then work as a PD?


Clerking from GULC is tough, as it depends on whether you mean federal or state PD

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midwest17
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Re: I don't get it. Is GULC a good school or not?

Postby midwest17 » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:17 am

Cicero76 wrote:
midwest17 wrote:Is GULC worth it if you want to clerk and then work as a PD?


Clerking from GULC is tough, as it depends on whether you mean federal or state PD


I think I'd be happy with either fed or state PD, but I only have experience with state PDs so far. The clerking issue is probably a good enough reason to steer clear of GULC, though. (But I'm probably still going to apply -- maybe they'll suddenly become more generous with scholarships, or at least give me a bit of negotiating power.)

Thanks!

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Crowing
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Re: I don't get it. Is GULC a good school or not?

Postby Crowing » Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:04 am

I've met a few people who seriously debated GULC vs. CCN. I guess the location and perception of the school's focus/type of students who go there really draws certain people.




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