is there any realistic admission advantage to joint degrees?

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
lawpanther
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:42 pm

is there any realistic admission advantage to joint degrees?

Postby lawpanther » Sat Oct 19, 2013 2:09 pm

Many law schools have joint degree programs, and they all say that you have to apply separately and be accepted to both programs. The claim is that there is no advantage to applying to a joint-degree program, but is this really accurate? I'm wondering if this is kind of like how schools say "we consider all aspects of an applicant's application and have a holistic admissions process" but many schools are clearly driven almost purely by numbers. I assume that any advantage conferred by just being an applicant is negligible, but I feel like there might actually be an advantage once you're accepted into one of the programs, and I assume the larger advantage could be getting accepted into the law program somewhere. I'm not so much advocating for this theory as I am noting that it makes sense and wondering what everyone else thinks. My reasoning is partially that there is some psychological advantage to getting into another program if they know that you're desirable and 'good enough' to get into another program at the same institution. But mostly, I feel like it's possible that, since law schools have every reason to want to keep their offer/acceptance ratio high, they might be willing to put in a good word for someone with another department in order to help retain an admit. does this seem reasonable? is acceptance into a law program any kind of bargaining chip (kind of like how getting accepted into multiple law programs gives the applicant negotiating power, they can say "give me more scholarship money or i'm going to X school"), in that the applicant can say "I am only interested in this school if I can do the dual degree"? Does this work in favor of the applicant at all? I find it perfectly likely that, if an admissions office got an email saying "thanks for the acceptance, but I'm only wanting to do the joint degree here, because if I'm just doing the law degree alone I should go to X higher ranked school", they would AT LEAST be prudent for them to write a quick email to the other department, whatever it may be, and say "we want this applicant, give him/her a good look".

p.s. i hope this thread isn't seen as wanting to debate the relative merits of joint degrees or whether or not this should be a criteria for choosing law school. for the purposes of this thread, let's just assume that someone has a guaranteed job lined up after graduation that requires a joint degree from any school. i know that the first instinct when reading this thread is to say "don't choose a law school based on a joint degree acceptance" or "pick one degree and just do that" and etc. but i'm conceptualizing my question as if these considerations don't apply here :) thank you

User avatar
redsox
Posts: 612
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:40 pm

Re: is there any realistic admission advantage to joint degrees?

Postby redsox » Sat Oct 19, 2013 2:39 pm

tl;dr

lawpanther
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:42 pm

Re: is there any realistic admission advantage to joint degrees?

Postby lawpanther » Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:10 pm

uh thanks. anyone else?
It's kind of sad that America now has kids that think less than 15 sentences is too long to read...

User avatar
cotiger
Posts: 1648
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:49 pm

Re: is there any realistic admission advantage to joint degrees?

Postby cotiger » Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:17 pm

lawpanther wrote:uh thanks. anyone else?
It's kind of sad that America now has kids that think less than 15 sentences is too long to read...


I think redsox was just commenting on your rambling wall of text. Paragraph breaks and concision help RC.

I have no idea if applying to a joint degree affects anything. You might try this thread, though: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=197451

User avatar
ragelion
Posts: 2302
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:14 am

Re: is there any realistic admission advantage to joint degrees?

Postby ragelion » Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:19 pm

lawpanther wrote:uh thanks. anyone else?
It's kind of sad that America now has kids that think less than 15 sentences is too long to read...

Maybe he just gave up after a few sentences of meaningless verbosity.

User avatar
hephaestus
Posts: 2385
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:21 pm

Re: is there any realistic admission advantage to joint degrees?

Postby hephaestus » Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:30 pm

More info would help. Which programs and which schools?

lawpanther
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:42 pm

Re: is there any realistic admission advantage to joint degrees?

Postby lawpanther » Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:54 pm

will a general range be helpful at all? I'm mostly wondering about the lower t-14 and 15-20 and their jd/phd joint degrees. are there schools that are more likely to do this, is that why you asked about specific schools?

thanks

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse
Posts: 22885
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: is there any realistic admission advantage to joint degrees?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:41 pm

It probably depends on the field, but I don't think most Ph.D. departments would really care if you were admitted into another degree program, if you didn't already meet their admissions requirements.

User avatar
redsox
Posts: 612
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:40 pm

Re: is there any realistic admission advantage to joint degrees?

Postby redsox » Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:38 pm

ragelion wrote:Maybe he just gave up after a few sentences of meaningless verbosity.


This.

User avatar
hephaestus
Posts: 2385
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:21 pm

Re: is there any realistic admission advantage to joint degrees?

Postby hephaestus » Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:46 pm

lawpanther wrote:will a general range be helpful at all? I'm mostly wondering about the lower t-14 and 15-20 and their jd/phd joint degrees. are there schools that are more likely to do this, is that why you asked about specific schools?

thanks

Yeah I doubt it will help with PhDs because departments ultimately have to fund them and have no shortage of qualified candidate. An MA you are paying for May be a different situation altogether.

User avatar
Happy Gilmore
Posts: 314
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:24 pm

Re: is there any realistic admission advantage to joint degrees?

Postby Happy Gilmore » Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:39 pm

Even if there is a slight marginal difference to applying for a joint degree, that would be a pretty dumb reason for doing it.

I doubt there is any advantage, but I suppose it might be possible as schools are interested in people who will find jobs afterwards and a joint degree will make you more attractive, ergo higher employment score.

User avatar
mr. wednesday
Posts: 406
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:15 am

Re: is there any realistic admission advantage to joint degrees?

Postby mr. wednesday » Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:14 pm

Happy Gilmore wrote:Even if there is a slight marginal difference to applying for a joint degree, that would be a pretty dumb reason for doing it.

I doubt there is any advantage, but I suppose it might be possible as schools are interested in people who will find jobs afterwards and a joint degree will make you more attractive, ergo higher employment score.

I'm not sure a joint JD/PhD is actually more employable outside of academia, which is (for most PhDs) a harder job market than law.

You can probably get into a MBA program as a joint candidate more easily, but that's probably about it. Maybe a MPP program. Not a PhD.

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse
Posts: 22885
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: is there any realistic admission advantage to joint degrees?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:20 pm

Maybe for IP, if hard science. Otherwise I completely agree.

User avatar
John_rizzy_rawls
Posts: 3477
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:44 pm

Re: is there any realistic admission advantage to joint degrees?

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:25 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:It probably depends on the field, but I don't think most Ph.D. departments would really care if you were admitted into another degree program, if you didn't already meet their admissions requirements.


I hear a lot of mixed (anecdotal) things about this. One the one hand it seems pretty solid that applying for the joint JD/PhD doesn't provide any advantage either way but that applying to one while already in the other (applying to the LS during first year of PhD studies or vice-versa) seems to provide an advantage.

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse
Posts: 22885
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: is there any realistic admission advantage to joint degrees?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:30 pm

John_rizzy_rawls wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:It probably depends on the field, but I don't think most Ph.D. departments would really care if you were admitted into another degree program, if you didn't already meet their admissions requirements.


I hear a lot of mixed (anecdotal) things about this. One the one hand it seems pretty solid that applying for the joint JD/PhD doesn't provide any advantage either way but that applying to one while already in the other (applying to the LS during first year of PhD studies or vice-versa) seems to provide an advantage.

Yeah, that makes sense - you'd have some track record in a grad department to point to, which could help. I didn't get the impression that's what the OP was talking about, though.

User avatar
twenty
Posts: 3153
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:17 pm

Re: is there any realistic admission advantage to joint degrees?

Postby twenty » Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:37 pm

The only place it helps slightly is for law programs that are hell-bent on expanding their joint program at all costs. The only T14 schools that come to mind are NYU and Georgetown's JD/MBA, a couple of Duke's JD/MA programs, Penn's JD/MSEd, and maybe one or two more.

The downside is, it only gives you a very small boost in the admissions process (just because it's so easy to jump ship after your 1L year), and the financial cost of doing a joint program is very rarely worth it.

EDIT> That said, I understand you receive a substantial boost in applying for joint programs as a 1L. Not enough to overcome bad numbers/a bad resume, but it will definitely help you out at almost every program.

Kevinlomax
Posts: 330
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:04 am

Re: is there any realistic admission advantage to joint degrees?

Postby Kevinlomax » Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:13 pm

ragelion wrote:
lawpanther wrote:uh thanks. anyone else?
It's kind of sad that America now has kids that think less than 15 sentences is too long to read...

Maybe he just gave up after a few sentences of meaningless verbosity.

this.

bp shinners
Posts: 3091
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:05 pm

Re: is there any realistic admission advantage to joint degrees?

Postby bp shinners » Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:54 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
John_rizzy_rawls wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:It probably depends on the field, but I don't think most Ph.D. departments would really care if you were admitted into another degree program, if you didn't already meet their admissions requirements.


I hear a lot of mixed (anecdotal) things about this. One the one hand it seems pretty solid that applying for the joint JD/PhD doesn't provide any advantage either way but that applying to one while already in the other (applying to the LS during first year of PhD studies or vice-versa) seems to provide an advantage.

Yeah, that makes sense - you'd have some track record in a grad department to point to, which could help. I didn't get the impression that's what the OP was talking about, though.


More anecdotal evidence, but I would agree with this. Applying to both schools at the same time doesn't appear to give you a boost; applying for a joint degree after already enrolling at one program does seem to be easier. I know people who had no shot at HBS, but they were admitted after having a solid 1L semester at the law school.




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Yahoo [Bot] and 3 guests