T14 Character and Fitness Questions (2013-2014 Cycle)

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midwest17
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Re: T14 Character and Fitness Questions (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby midwest17 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:19 pm

malleus discentium wrote:I have a speeding ticket from three years ago. Other than for Harvard, who explicitly excludes those, should I just disclose it to everyone? Or does it count as a "minor traffic/parking violation"? Is it going to annoy anyone if I submit the addendum when they didn't actually want it? The nerves are real, guys.


A speeding ticket is a minor traffic violation. Some schools exclude minor traffic violations, some only exclude minor parking violations. Disclose to the latter.

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Stanford4Me
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Re: T14 Character and Fitness Questions (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby Stanford4Me » Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:27 pm

Jules239 wrote:Number 6 from NYU: does that include minor traffic violations?


Even after graduating from NYU and passing my state's C&F I'm not sure if that question includes minor traffic violations. I didn't disclose mine, but I have friends who did. I also have friends who initially didn't disclose the violations, got freaked out during 3L year, and subsequently disclosed the traffic violations. NYU Administration sent some boiler plate letter expressing their "disappointment" (or some BS like that) about how they didn't disclose. A friend and I e-mailed the administration to see if we needed to disclose our traffic tickets (the process for doing so is annoyingly cumbersome, especially when the tickets are 3 or 4 years old) and we were told we didn't have to. Obviously, it's all a hot mess.

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malleus discentium
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Re: T14 Character and Fitness Questions (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby malleus discentium » Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:03 am

midwest17 wrote:
malleus discentium wrote:I have a speeding ticket from three years ago. Other than for Harvard, who explicitly excludes those, should I just disclose it to everyone? Or does it count as a "minor traffic/parking violation"? Is it going to annoy anyone if I submit the addendum when they didn't actually want it? The nerves are real, guys.


A speeding ticket is a minor traffic violation. Some schools exclude minor traffic violations, some only exclude minor parking violations. Disclose to the latter.


Okay I wondered if that was a valid distinction. Good to know. So it sounds like disclose to CLS, NYU, Penn and no to the rest? Is that a fair reading?

daryldixon
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Re: T14 Character and Fitness Questions (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby daryldixon » Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:19 am

Wow. These have gotten more inclusive. I remember when I applied that Berkeley was infamous for only requiring disclosure of convictions. And I believe Penn's questions weren't as inclusive as they are now either.

I don't remember the rest but it seems like the trend is towards broad disclosure.

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tfwnogf
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Re: T14 Character and Fitness Questions (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby tfwnogf » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:17 pm

When they say warning, does it still count if its an informal sanction that isn't noted on the transcript at all? That's how my school handled warnings, which were sent in an email and basically told you to not do it next semester. It seems like some schools that want you to report warnings might view them as more serious disciplinary action, while it was not even recorded at my school.

Should I still report this? Only one school explicitly states to report even informal sanctions, so I would probably have to do it there.

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midwest17
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Re: T14 Character and Fitness Questions (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby midwest17 » Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:24 pm

tfwnogf wrote:When they say warning, does it still count if its an informal sanction that isn't noted on the transcript at all? That's how my school handled warnings, which were sent in an email and basically told you to not do it next semester. It seems like some schools that want you to report warnings might view them as more serious disciplinary action, while it was not even recorded at my school.

Should I still report this? Only one school explicitly states to report even informal sanctions, so I would probably have to do it there.


If they ask about warnings, disclose. But you don't have to disclose for questions like this, I would think, since an email qualifies as a verbal reprimand:

Harvard wrote:1. At any educational institution, have you ever been found responsible for behavioral misconduct that resulted in anything more than a verbal reprimand or are any charges pending?

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okaygo
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Re: T14 Character and Fitness Questions (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby okaygo » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:55 am

3. Have you ever been warned, dropped, suspended, placed on disciplinary probation, disciplined, expelled, requested or advised to resign from any post-secondary school, college, university, professional school, or law school?


Confused by this question. I left a bottle of alcohol in my dorm room during room inspections and had to write an essay for housing about it. Would I disclose that in this particular situation?

elastigirl
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Re: T14 Character and Fitness Questions (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby elastigirl » Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:07 pm

I can see how the first example, about the grades, would be relevant. What if the second example happened at a university-sponsored event? Would that still be relevant if one was no longer a student there at the time?

midwest17 wrote:
elastigirl wrote:Out of curiosity, do questions for all these schools about behavior pertaining to an educational institution only pertain to when someone was a student at a school? Anything that happens after someone graduates is not encompassed by the question (unless of course they fall into the general crime question).

Like question 1 from Chicago:
"In connection with your enrollment at any college, university, or other institution of higher education..."

or question 1 from UVA:
"Have you ever been subject to verbal or written discipline (informal or formal, and of any type, such as but not limited to warning, reprimand, suspension, and/or dismissal) for scholastic or other reasons in any of the colleges, universities, graduate or professional schools you have attended, or by any employer?"


They only apply to school's you've attended, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they only apply to incidents that occurred while you were attending. If, for instance, you got censured by a school for lying about your grades from there (I have no idea if this actually happens) after you graduated, then that would still be "in connection with your enrollment," and it would still be "verbal or written discipline...for scholastic...reasons in [a] college...you have attended".

If you got cited by university police for being drunk on campus after you graduated, though, I don't think it would fall under these questions.

Without more specifics it's impossible to answer non-hypothetically.

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midwest17
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Re: T14 Character and Fitness Questions (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby midwest17 » Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:13 pm

elastigirl wrote:I can see how the first example, about the grades, would be relevant. What if the second example happened at a university-sponsored event? Would that still be relevant if one was no longer a student there at the time?

midwest17 wrote:
elastigirl wrote:Out of curiosity, do questions for all these schools about behavior pertaining to an educational institution only pertain to when someone was a student at a school? Anything that happens after someone graduates is not encompassed by the question (unless of course they fall into the general crime question).

Like question 1 from Chicago:
"In connection with your enrollment at any college, university, or other institution of higher education..."

or question 1 from UVA:
"Have you ever been subject to verbal or written discipline (informal or formal, and of any type, such as but not limited to warning, reprimand, suspension, and/or dismissal) for scholastic or other reasons in any of the colleges, universities, graduate or professional schools you have attended, or by any employer?"


They only apply to school's you've attended, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they only apply to incidents that occurred while you were attending. If, for instance, you got censured by a school for lying about your grades from there (I have no idea if this actually happens) after you graduated, then that would still be "in connection with your enrollment," and it would still be "verbal or written discipline...for scholastic...reasons in [a] college...you have attended".

If you got cited by university police for being drunk on campus after you graduated, though, I don't think it would fall under these questions.

Without more specifics it's impossible to answer non-hypothetically.


I would think probably not, but again, without more specifics, it's impossible to say for sure.

Was the event connected to the fact that you used to be a student there (i.e. was it something specifically for graduates?)

In general, you're best off either (a) disclosing, or (b) contacting the admissions office and asking if you need to disclose. If the incident is major enough that you think it might actually impact your admissions chances, and it's at all debatable whether you should have disclosed on the app or not, then it will come out during your bar application, and it will be an issue that you didn't disclose.

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georgej
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Re: T14 Character and Fitness Questions (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby georgej » Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:09 am

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Last edited by georgej on Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

mulhollanddrive
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Re: T14 Character and Fitness Questions (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby mulhollanddrive » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:54 pm

When schools like Columbia, Duke, NYU, and Cornell etc want a letter or explanation of the incident from your UG's dean/administrator - is that letter from the UG a required component for the application to be COMPLETE and all ready for adcomms to look over?

I ask because I am thinking about ED-ing by the Nov. 15 deadline for a T14 school, but have not yet had my UG dean/admin send a letter.

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Iroh
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Re: T14 Character and Fitness Questions (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby Iroh » Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:26 am

mulhollanddrive wrote:When schools like Columbia, Duke, NYU, and Cornell etc want a letter or explanation of the incident from your UG's dean/administrator - is that letter from the UG a required component for the application to be COMPLETE and all ready for adcomms to look over?

I ask because I am thinking about ED-ing by the Nov. 15 deadline for a T14 school, but have not yet had my UG dean/admin send a letter.


Yes, it is required for the application to go complete. Your app won't go under review until they have it. Go to your Dean of Students (or whomever handles these issues) and fill out whatever form they need in order to send it out. If you're not on campus, hopefully your Dean of Students has a form online that you can fax to them. Then request them to fax the letter over to the schools so they arrive ASAP.

Also, remember that Cornell has its very own form that needs to be filled out and signed by both you and the Dean.

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Re: T14 Character and Fitness Questions (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby koalacity » Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:30 pm

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Last edited by koalacity on Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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midwest17
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Re: T14 Character and Fitness Questions (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby midwest17 » Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:41 pm

koalacity: Any reasonable reading of Harvard's question says you're fine; they're only interested in misdemeanors and felonies, and if you're sure that your violations aren't misdemeanors, you don't need to disclose.

The risk-averse option is to call the admissions office and ask.

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girlmonster
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Re: T14 Character and Fitness Questions (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby girlmonster » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:50 am

I have received a few minor traffic tickets over the last 6+ years, but only one is documented in my driving record. Does anyone know either (1) how I can access the dates of my previous citations since I cannot remember, or (2) if an approximation of the date is okay? I'm trying to submit my app before work in the morning, but if no one has any ideas, I suppose I will have to contact the school directly.

Thank you!

tfcochrane
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Re: T14 Character and Fitness Questions (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby tfcochrane » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:44 am

Okay, so I recently submitted my first batch of applications but didn't realize how much schools care about this stuff. I didn't put a few alcohol offenses from freshman year and a speeding ticket or two on my applications, and now realize I absolutely should have. Anyone have any experience with calling admissions offices to get something like this corrected?

Thanks!

rob91
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Re: T14 Character and Fitness Questions (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby rob91 » Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:59 pm

Should noise complaints be included? This occurred at my private residence, and was in no way affiliated with the school I was attending at the time. I had a few friends over, was playing the music too loud, and the cops came by. We simply turned it down and they left, no further problem. No formal citation was issued. I have no idea if records of this kind of thing are kept by the police. I wouldn't have even thought to include it until I read Emory's C&F: http://www.law.emory.edu/index.php?id=7401 (check their example scenario number 2)

I suppose it depends on the particular wording of the school's C&F. For instance, Chicago's C&F mentions "complaints" filed against you, and it seems like this would qualify as a complaint.

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midwest17
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Re: T14 Character and Fitness Questions (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby midwest17 » Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:02 pm

rob91 wrote:Should noise complaints be included? This occurred at my private residence, and was in no way affiliated with the school I was attending at the time. I had a few friends over, was playing the music too loud, and the cops came by. We simply turned it down and they left, no further problem. No formal citation was issued. I have no idea if records of this kind of thing are kept by the police. I wouldn't have even thought to include it until I read Emory's C&F: http://www.law.emory.edu/index.php?id=7401 (check their example scenario number 2)

I suppose it depends on the particular wording of the school's C&F. For instance, Chicago's C&F mentions "complaints" filed against you, and it seems like this would qualify as a complaint.


This will in no way affect admissions, so you may as well disclose.

rob91
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Re: T14 Character and Fitness Questions (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby rob91 » Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:21 pm

Any idea what is meant by "professional organization?" Listed under apps for Stanford, Columbia, and UCLA. Would this be the same thing as an employer?

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musharraf
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Re: T14 Character and Fitness Questions (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby musharraf » Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:09 am

rob91 wrote:Any idea what is meant by "professional organization?" Listed under apps for Stanford, Columbia, and UCLA. Would this be the same thing as an employer?


This means a trade organization. If you're a journalists you may be a member of your local or national press club, if you're a police officer you may be a member of the Fraternal Order of Police, etc.




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