Is there even a point of going to law school?

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BadAsIWantToBreathe
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Is there even a point of going to law school?

Postby BadAsIWantToBreathe » Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:23 am

My goal is to go into biglaw and eventually become partner.
But everyone says stay away from law school.

is there even a point?

Should I just switch to pre-Med?

orville
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Re: Is there even a point of going to law school?

Postby orville » Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:51 am

First thread on existentialism I've seen on here.

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cinephile
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Re: Is there even a point of going to law school?

Postby cinephile » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:46 am

Not a good reason to do either law or medicine.

NYstate
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Re: Is there even a point of going to law school?

Postby NYstate » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:13 am

BadAsIWantToBreathe wrote:My goal is to go into biglaw and eventually become partner.
But everyone says stay away from law school.

is there even a point?

Should I just switch to pre-Med?


1. Going to law school with the goal of being a biglaw partner is ok as long as you understand the chances of achieving that goal approach zero.

2. Yes, there is a point. But you have to find your own.

3. Do you want to be a doctor?

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manofjustice
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Re: Is there even a point of going to law school?

Postby manofjustice » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:13 am

Okay, where's the TLS chorus now? Okay, one, two, three: "why do you want to be a lawyer?"

Good answer = thread continues. Bad answer = "do something else HTH."

Steveloblaw
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Re: Is there even a point of going to law school?

Postby Steveloblaw » Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:02 am

Troll.

BadAsIWantToBreathe
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Re: Is there even a point of going to law school?

Postby BadAsIWantToBreathe » Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:17 pm

NYstate wrote:
BadAsIWantToBreathe wrote:My goal is to go into biglaw and eventually become partner.
But everyone says stay away from law school.

is there even a point?

Should I just switch to pre-Med?


1. Going to law school with the goal of being a biglaw partner is ok as long as you understand the chances of achieving that goal approach zero.

2. Yes, there is a point. But you have to find your own.

3. Do you want to be a doctor?


Close to zero?
So if I go to a T6, it's still close to zero?

Then seriously what is the point. No I don't want to become a doctor.

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haus
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Re: Is there even a point of going to law school?

Postby haus » Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:28 pm

BadAsIWantToBreathe wrote:No I don't want to become a doctor.

Then I would not suggest either pre-med or med school.

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MoMettaMonk
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Re: Is there even a point of going to law school?

Postby MoMettaMonk » Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:34 pm

BadAsIWantToBreathe wrote:Close to zero?
So if I go to a T6, it's still close to zero?

Then seriously what is the point. No I don't want to become a doctor.


In order: Yes, there are very few BigLaw partners compared to the number of lawyers who graduate from even the T6. The chance is non-zero, but still not something you should count on unless you're willing to pursue it to the detriment of almost everything else in your life.

Secondly, dear lord do not go pre-med/med school if you don't want to become a doctor. Maybe you could be a researcher or something going down that path, but this thread mainly seems like "I want a bunch of money and prestige," so go into I-banking or something? But what do I know? I went to school for the arts, so clearly money and prestige have never been the main selling point for me.

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bk1
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Re: Is there even a point of going to law school?

Postby bk1 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:37 pm

Do you just want to make lots of money? There's probably better ways of achieving that goal than law school.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Is there even a point of going to law school?

Postby jbagelboy » Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:15 pm

You dont need to go to professional school to feel validated and successful in life. Thats a boomer/immigrant lie that seems to persist even post-recession, although the chorus of reason has grown louder and stronger.

If you want material success, as bk1 suggested, law and medicine are not the best ways to gl about it. The credited recommendation is to study either programming/electrical engineering to work at a successful start-up or tech firm OR math-heavy economics/finance and work at a large investment bank, PE fund, ect. This has a short term payoff, long term burnout though. Also, its incredibly competitive (and some people just dont have the technical proficiency with computers).

Only study the law if you want to practice law and if you're willing to commit to dominating the LSAT. Only go pre-med if you're good at chemistry and prepared for the 8+ year haul after your BA/BS before you can be a physician (and earn real income). Only get a PhD if you absolutely love the subject and aim to make a vital contribution to the relevant scholarship - and you are prepared for a lot of alone time and a broke beginning

Study what you love, find a job with decent income, people you enjoy or at least tolerate, and work or a cause that inspires you. Law school will always be there if you determine from your real world experience that being an attorney in the very literal and not at all preftigious sense is what you want for your life

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haus
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Re: Is there even a point of going to law school?

Postby haus » Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:53 pm

jbagelboy wrote:You dont need to go to professional school to feel validated and successful in life.

No, you do not need an advanced degree (although in some areas it can help), nor do you even need an undergrad degree. But you do need a better plan than, hey school sucks, even if I work hard I might not be rich, so I am dropping out.

BadAsIWantToBreathe
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Re: Is there even a point of going to law school?

Postby BadAsIWantToBreathe » Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:54 pm

jbagelboy wrote:You dont need to go to professional school to feel validated and successful in life. Thats a boomer/immigrant lie that seems to persist even post-recession, although the chorus of reason has grown louder and stronger.

If you want material success, as bk1 suggested, law and medicine are not the best ways to gl about it. The credited recommendation is to study either programming/electrical engineering to work at a successful start-up or tech firm OR math-heavy economics/finance and work at a large investment bank, PE fund, ect. This has a short term payoff, long term burnout though. Also, its incredibly competitive (and some people just dont have the technical proficiency with computers).

Only study the law if you want to practice law and if you're willing to commit to dominating the LSAT. Only go pre-med if you're good at chemistry and prepared for the 8+ year haul after your BA/BS before you can be a physician (and earn real income). Only get a PhD if you absolutely love the subject and aim to make a vital contribution to the relevant scholarship - and you are prepared for a lot of alone time and a broke beginning

Study what you love, find a job with decent income, people you enjoy or at least tolerate, and work or a cause that inspires you. Law school will always be there if you determine from your real world experience that being an attorney in the very literal and not at all preftigious sense is what you want for your life


Fuark. Someone give this guy a medal - very good and honest answer sir.
I appreciate it.

BadAsIWantToBreathe
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Re: Is there even a point of going to law school?

Postby BadAsIWantToBreathe » Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:46 pm

bk1 wrote:Do you just want to make lots of money? There's probably better ways of achieving that goal than law school.


I'm a history major...how do I break into i-banking?

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haus
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Re: Is there even a point of going to law school?

Postby haus » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:20 pm

BadAsIWantToBreathe wrote:
bk1 wrote:Do you just want to make lots of money? There's probably better ways of achieving that goal than law school.


I'm a history major...how do I break into i-banking?

Go back into history and opt to major in something else.

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longlivetheking
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Re: Is there even a point of going to law school?

Postby longlivetheking » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:30 pm

BadAsIWantToBreathe wrote:
bk1 wrote:Do you just want to make lots of money? There's probably better ways of achieving that goal than law school.


I'm a history major...how do I break into i-banking?



i too, like to ask questions about breaking into i-banking on top-law-schools.com

willmendel
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Re: Is there even a point of going to law school?

Postby willmendel » Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:04 pm

jbagelboy wrote:You dont need to go to professional school to feel validated and successful in life. Thats a boomer/immigrant lie that seems to persist even post-recession, although the chorus of reason has grown louder and stronger.

If you want material success, as bk1 suggested, law and medicine are not the best ways to gl about it. The credited recommendation is to study either programming/electrical engineering to work at a successful start-up or tech firm OR math-heavy economics/finance and work at a large investment bank, PE fund, ect. This has a short term payoff, long term burnout though. Also, its incredibly competitive (and some people just dont have the technical proficiency with computers).

Only study the law if you want to practice law and if you're willing to commit to dominating the LSAT. Only go pre-med if you're good at chemistry and prepared for the 8+ year haul after your BA/BS before you can be a physician (and earn real income). Only get a PhD if you absolutely love the subject and aim to make a vital contribution to the relevant scholarship - and you are prepared for a lot of alone time and a broke beginning

Study what you love, find a job with decent income, people you enjoy or at least tolerate, and work or a cause that inspires you. Law school will always be there if you determine from your real world experience that being an attorney in the very literal and not at all preftigious sense is what you want for your life



This is absolutely TCR. So many people nowdays go for money or prestige over what they love, and most if not all of them regret it.
The problem is that so many of us (myself included) are young and think we know everything. We think we NEED a fancy degree and think "well, i'll just make some money and be happy later". this is dumb. you only get one life, spend it doing what you love, NOT what someone else (society, parents, etc) think is best for you.

Law school is only a good choice for people who want to practice law, and really, the case could be made that it SHOULD only be for people who not only want to practice law but who actually LOVE law.

JBB is also spot-on with the assessment of other advanced degrees. people think, "i'll go to med school and practice medicine... I don't love it, but at least I'll have money and prestige". What a joke.

I have a friend who just finished a PHD in bioinformatics. He just went to grad school because he didn't know what else to do. He's at a top-10 university, his program keeps telling him that there are tons of jobs and flexibility, but he's been out for a year now and can't find a job even at a JC. the academic world is extremely competitive and he just doesn't love it enough to make any real impact. He forfeited 4 years of his life, in a city he hated, with people he hated, doing something he hated, didn't have time to make friends or really date anyone, and how he's looking for a job in a field he hates, and will most likely have to move to a city he hates to find work. This is what you're looking at with a law degree. If you don't love it, you're not going to make the necessary sacrifices to make it viable. If you go to a school at sticker, you're going to HAVE to snag biglaw. You're going to have to beg every nlj250 firm to take you, and then you're going to take the 1-2 offers you get and move wherever in the country their offers are.

My friend complains that, as an academic, you're choices are either to work as a part-time jerk at some crappy college for shit pay, OR you can work 90 hours a week IF you're lucky enough to get a tenure track job, and have no family, no friends, and no outside life. The same is true to med school, law school, basically any "prestigious" advanced degree.

You know what my buddy's working on? nothing. he moved to LA and he's auditioning for commercials, because acting is his passion and now he wishes he would have just done that to begin with. There's a reason why everyone here is telling you not to go to law school, AND not to go to med school or get a phd or do any one of the crazy things you're going to think up next. If you're going to spend the time and make the sacrifices for an advanced degree, you're damn well better LOVE the subject because otherwise your life will be hell.

I know that law sounds so glamorous. People all want to be 'doctors' or 'lawyers' or 'professors' or whatever, because they don't do their damn research. there's literally no advanced degree you can get that gets you an easy salary for 40 hours a week. If you want that, go back to undergrad, and pick a smart undergrad degree. Advanced degrees are for people who love what they do and are willing to sacrifice a whole ton for their love (this goes for law, med, phd, everything). You want a family and to spent time with your kids? DON'T do an advanced degree. You want to travel? go back to undergrad. You want prestige and money at the expense of happiness? go to law school, med school, or get your phd.

People think that professors and lawyers just sit around all day and take it easy. Nothing could be further from the truth. Do your research man

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twenty
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Re: Is there even a point of going to law school?

Postby twenty » Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:08 pm

Step 1) Switch out your major to something useful. Count any time spent in your history major as wasted.
Step 2) Enroll at your school's AFROTC. I don't particularly like the Air Force as a branch, but it all but guarantees you active duty.
Step 3) After your four years are up, you'll have 100% of the GI Bill, have made a substantial amount of money, have four years of fabulous work experience, will get veteran's preference for most federal jobs, etc.
Step 4) Do law school for free, if you even want to at that point.

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MoMettaMonk
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Re: Is there even a point of going to law school?

Postby MoMettaMonk » Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:30 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:Step 1) Switch out your major to something useful. Count any time spent in your history major as wasted.
Step 2) Enroll at your school's AFROTC. I don't particularly like the Air Force as a branch, but it all but guarantees you active duty.
Step 3) After your four years are up, you'll have 100% of the GI Bill, have made a substantial amount of money, have four years of fabulous work experience, will get veteran's preference for most federal jobs, etc.
Step 4) Do law school for free, if you even want to at that point.


Twenty this is like the third person I've seen you tell to go join the military, are you secretly a recruiter or something?

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haus
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Re: Is there even a point of going to law school?

Postby haus » Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:52 pm

MoMettaMonk wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:Step 1) Switch out your major to something useful. Count any time spent in your history major as wasted.
Step 2) Enroll at your school's AFROTC. I don't particularly like the Air Force as a branch, but it all but guarantees you active duty.
Step 3) After your four years are up, you'll have 100% of the GI Bill, have made a substantial amount of money, have four years of fabulous work experience, will get veteran's preference for most federal jobs, etc.
Step 4) Do law school for free, if you even want to at that point.


Twenty this is like the third person I've seen you tell to go join the military, are you secretly a recruiter or something?

Back in the day when I was in the service there were small incentives for recruiting others, although I suspect that in this instance, Twenty is simply trying to point out the benefits that he has found in his own solution to others.

BadAsIWantToBreathe
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Re: Is there even a point of going to law school?

Postby BadAsIWantToBreathe » Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:38 pm

willmendel wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:You dont need to go to professional school to feel validated and successful in life. Thats a boomer/immigrant lie that seems to persist even post-recession, although the chorus of reason has grown louder and stronger.

If you want material success, as bk1 suggested, law and medicine are not the best ways to gl about it. The credited recommendation is to study either programming/electrical engineering to work at a successful start-up or tech firm OR math-heavy economics/finance and work at a large investment bank, PE fund, ect. This has a short term payoff, long term burnout though. Also, its incredibly competitive (and some people just dont have the technical proficiency with computers).

Only study the law if you want to practice law and if you're willing to commit to dominating the LSAT. Only go pre-med if you're good at chemistry and prepared for the 8+ year haul after your BA/BS before you can be a physician (and earn real income). Only get a PhD if you absolutely love the subject and aim to make a vital contribution to the relevant scholarship - and you are prepared for a lot of alone time and a broke beginning

Study what you love, find a job with decent income, people you enjoy or at least tolerate, and work or a cause that inspires you. Law school will always be there if you determine from your real world experience that being an attorney in the very literal and not at all preftigious sense is what you want for your life



This is absolutely TCR. So many people nowdays go for money or prestige over what they love, and most if not all of them regret it.
The problem is that so many of us (myself included) are young and think we know everything. We think we NEED a fancy degree and think "well, i'll just make some money and be happy later". this is dumb. you only get one life, spend it doing what you love, NOT what someone else (society, parents, etc) think is best for you.

Law school is only a good choice for people who want to practice law, and really, the case could be made that it SHOULD only be for people who not only want to practice law but who actually LOVE law.

JBB is also spot-on with the assessment of other advanced degrees. people think, "i'll go to med school and practice medicine... I don't love it, but at least I'll have money and prestige". What a joke.

I have a friend who just finished a PHD in bioinformatics. He just went to grad school because he didn't know what else to do. He's at a top-10 university, his program keeps telling him that there are tons of jobs and flexibility, but he's been out for a year now and can't find a job even at a JC. the academic world is extremely competitive and he just doesn't love it enough to make any real impact. He forfeited 4 years of his life, in a city he hated, with people he hated, doing something he hated, didn't have time to make friends or really date anyone, and how he's looking for a job in a field he hates, and will most likely have to move to a city he hates to find work. This is what you're looking at with a law degree. If you don't love it, you're not going to make the necessary sacrifices to make it viable. If you go to a school at sticker, you're going to HAVE to snag biglaw. You're going to have to beg every nlj250 firm to take you, and then you're going to take the 1-2 offers you get and move wherever in the country their offers are.

My friend complains that, as an academic, you're choices are either to work as a part-time jerk at some crappy college for shit pay, OR you can work 90 hours a week IF you're lucky enough to get a tenure track job, and have no family, no friends, and no outside life. The same is true to med school, law school, basically any "prestigious" advanced degree.

You know what my buddy's working on? nothing. he moved to LA and he's auditioning for commercials, because acting is his passion and now he wishes he would have just done that to begin with. There's a reason why everyone here is telling you not to go to law school, AND not to go to med school or get a phd or do any one of the crazy things you're going to think up next. If you're going to spend the time and make the sacrifices for an advanced degree, you're damn well better LOVE the subject because otherwise your life will be hell.

I know that law sounds so glamorous. People all want to be 'doctors' or 'lawyers' or 'professors' or whatever, because they don't do their damn research. there's literally no advanced degree you can get that gets you an easy salary for 40 hours a week. If you want that, go back to undergrad, and pick a smart undergrad degree. Advanced degrees are for people who love what they do and are willing to sacrifice a whole ton for their love (this goes for law, med, phd, everything). You want a family and to spent time with your kids? DON'T do an advanced degree. You want to travel? go back to undergrad. You want prestige and money at the expense of happiness? go to law school, med school, or get your phd.

People think that professors and lawyers just sit around all day and take it easy. Nothing could be further from the truth. Do your research man


Yes. Now tell me how.

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Danger Zone
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Re: Is there even a point of going to law school?

Postby Danger Zone » Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:53 pm

Didn't read thread but to answer the title of the thread NO, FUCKING NO, JUST START RUNNING NOW AND NEVER TURN BACK

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midwest17
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Re: Is there even a point of going to law school?

Postby midwest17 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:02 am

BadAsIWantToBreathe wrote:
willmendel wrote: You want prestige and money at the expense of happiness?


Yes. Now tell me how.


BadAsIWantToBreathe wrote:I'm a history major...


Does this strike anyone else as suspicious?

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Happy Gilmore
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Re: Is there even a point of going to law school?

Postby Happy Gilmore » Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:03 am

PMGOMGOMG STOP FEEDING THE TROLLL

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clay7676
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Re: Is there even a point of going to law school?

Postby clay7676 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:24 am

willmendel wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:You dont need to go to professional school to feel validated and successful in life. Thats a boomer/immigrant lie that seems to persist even post-recession, although the chorus of reason has grown louder and stronger.

If you want material success, as bk1 suggested, law and medicine are not the best ways to gl about it. The credited recommendation is to study either programming/electrical engineering to work at a successful start-up or tech firm OR math-heavy economics/finance and work at a large investment bank, PE fund, ect. This has a short term payoff, long term burnout though. Also, its incredibly competitive (and some people just dont have the technical proficiency with computers).

Only study the law if you want to practice law and if you're willing to commit to dominating the LSAT. Only go pre-med if you're good at chemistry and prepared for the 8+ year haul after your BA/BS before you can be a physician (and earn real income). Only get a PhD if you absolutely love the subject and aim to make a vital contribution to the relevant scholarship - and you are prepared for a lot of alone time and a broke beginning

Study what you love, find a job with decent income, people you enjoy or at least tolerate, and work or a cause that inspires you. Law school will always be there if you determine from your real world experience that being an attorney in the very literal and not at all preftigious sense is what you want for your life



This is absolutely TCR. So many people nowdays go for money or prestige over what they love, and most if not all of them regret it.
The problem is that so many of us (myself included) are young and think we know everything. We think we NEED a fancy degree and think "well, i'll just make some money and be happy later". this is dumb. you only get one life, spend it doing what you love, NOT what someone else (society, parents, etc) think is best for you.

Law school is only a good choice for people who want to practice law, and really, the case could be made that it SHOULD only be for people who not only want to practice law but who actually LOVE law.

JBB is also spot-on with the assessment of other advanced degrees. people think, "i'll go to med school and practice medicine... I don't love it, but at least I'll have money and prestige". What a joke.

I have a friend who just finished a PHD in bioinformatics. He just went to grad school because he didn't know what else to do. He's at a top-10 university, his program keeps telling him that there are tons of jobs and flexibility, but he's been out for a year now and can't find a job even at a JC. the academic world is extremely competitive and he just doesn't love it enough to make any real impact. He forfeited 4 years of his life, in a city he hated, with people he hated, doing something he hated, didn't have time to make friends or really date anyone, and how he's looking for a job in a field he hates, and will most likely have to move to a city he hates to find work. This is what you're looking at with a law degree. If you don't love it, you're not going to make the necessary sacrifices to make it viable. If you go to a school at sticker, you're going to HAVE to snag biglaw. You're going to have to beg every nlj250 firm to take you, and then you're going to take the 1-2 offers you get and move wherever in the country their offers are.

My friend complains that, as an academic, you're choices are either to work as a part-time jerk at some crappy college for shit pay, OR you can work 90 hours a week IF you're lucky enough to get a tenure track job, and have no family, no friends, and no outside life. The same is true to med school, law school, basically any "prestigious" advanced degree.

You know what my buddy's working on? nothing. he moved to LA and he's auditioning for commercials, because acting is his passion and now he wishes he would have just done that to begin with. There's a reason why everyone here is telling you not to go to law school, AND not to go to med school or get a phd or do any one of the crazy things you're going to think up next. If you're going to spend the time and make the sacrifices for an advanced degree, you're damn well better LOVE the subject because otherwise your life will be hell.

I know that law sounds so glamorous. People all want to be 'doctors' or 'lawyers' or 'professors' or whatever, because they don't do their damn research. there's literally no advanced degree you can get that gets you an easy salary for 40 hours a week. If you want that, go back to undergrad, and pick a smart undergrad degree. Advanced degrees are for people who love what they do and are willing to sacrifice a whole ton for their love (this goes for law, med, phd, everything). You want a family and to spent time with your kids? DON'T do an advanced degree. You want to travel? go back to undergrad. You want prestige and money at the expense of happiness? go to law school, med school, or get your phd.

People think that professors and lawyers just sit around all day and take it easy. Nothing could be further from the truth. Do your research man


So what qualifies someone as "loving law"? Are you saying everyone on here loves law? Is that why the GTA V forum is one of the most active threads in the lounge? Not trying to be a prick, but just curious because I don't feel like many 20 year old undergraduates actually "love law" when they probably don't know too much about it. Personally, I love politics and everything involved with argumentation (among other things). That motivates me. Interesting how often TLS'ers tell people not to goto law school. With that said, I agree mostly with you.




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