C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

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Nova
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby Nova » Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:38 pm

Dr. Dre wrote:UMN is a good school. What happened?

The adcomms had unrealistic expectations

They waitlisted basically all 166s early

By spring, most 166s had chosen other schools
Last edited by Nova on Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby Dr. Dre » Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:41 pm

so michigan down to 168?

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Motivator9
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby Motivator9 » Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:43 pm

Nova wrote:
Dr. Dre wrote:UMN is a good school. What happened?

The adcomms had unrealistic expectations

They waitlisted basically all 166s early

By spring, most 166s had chosen other schools


I guess we can expect them to ding almost no one till late July now lol

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altoid99
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby altoid99 » Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:52 pm

minnbills wrote:Everyone here at UMN is livid about the medians. I should have waited another cycle. With a 168/3.4 I would have probably gotten a full ride. FML. We're predicting a 5-10 place drop in the rankings. A 156 25th percentile is a joke.

And FTR they did let in a much bigger 1L class. Before this year the strategy was to let in fewer students as 1Ls but then let in a ton of transfers to get their $$. My class (2015) has about 50 transfers.


Students actually talk about median LSAT once they'be begun classes? Is everyone talking about the numbers? Has the administration sent out an explanation to the student body? Are there mass demonstrations at the law school? How are you sure everyone's livid??
Last edited by altoid99 on Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby Dr. Dre » Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:46 pm

wat the fuck happened to the spreadsheet :x

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:58 pm

altoid99 wrote:
minnbills wrote:Everyone here at UMN is livid about the medians. I should have waited another cycle. With a 168/3.4 I would have probably gotten a full ride. FML. We're predicting a 5-10 place drop in the rankings. A 156 25th percentile is a joke.

And FTR they did let in a much bigger 1L class. Before this year the strategy was to let in fewer students as 1Ls but then let in a ton of transfers to get their $$. My class (2015) has about 50 transfers.


Students actually talk about median LSAT once they'be begun classes? Is everyone talking about the numbers? Has the administration sent out an explanation to the student body? Are there mass demonstrations at the law school? How are you sure everyone's livid??


No way people are "livid." That dude is livid. He needs to take a walk and get some fresh air.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:04 pm

Nova wrote:If I don't get a legal job, they should hire me to game the fuck out of their medians.


But they do game the fuck out of their medians. Hence the 25th LSAT.

At least 1 out of 4 students at this "T20" couldn't top 156 on the LSAT. I bet many of them have high GPAs from garbage undergrads. . . now lambs to the curve, all so they could pay sticker at a "T20."

This is why T20, T30, T40, and T1 all need to go the way of the dodos, at least on TLS. Let schools push that bullshit themselves.

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minnbills
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby minnbills » Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:18 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
altoid99 wrote:
minnbills wrote:Everyone here at UMN is livid about the medians. I should have waited another cycle. With a 168/3.4 I would have probably gotten a full ride. FML. We're predicting a 5-10 place drop in the rankings. A 156 25th percentile is a joke.

And FTR they did let in a much bigger 1L class. Before this year the strategy was to let in fewer students as 1Ls but then let in a ton of transfers to get their $$. My class (2015) has about 50 transfers.


Students actually talk about median LSAT once they'be begun classes? Is everyone talking about the numbers? Has the administration sent out an explanation to the student body? Are there mass demonstrations at the law school? How are you sure everyone's livid??


No way people are "livid." That dude is livid. He needs to take a walk and get some fresh air.


Obviously I was exaggerating, duh.

Realistically, it's not a big deal. 164 medians are historically normal. In the long run the school will be fine. But yes, the adcomms shit the bed on this one, and the school will drop in the rankings.

People I've talked to are annoyed. But it also ties in to other administrative failures the school is facing. For example, UMN just tightened up its honors calculations so something like 20-40% fewer students will receive honors. Plus the school admits so many transfers. Transfers start with a clean slate and an easier curve 2L and 3L, so they make up a disproportionate number of the honors group. Not to mention having to compete with them for jobs.

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FKASunny
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby FKASunny » Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:20 pm

I'd think the alleged anger from the current 2 and 3Ls would have less to do with a "weaker" student body and more to do with "fuck this, I should have gotten a full ride."

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minnbills
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby minnbills » Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:23 pm

ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) wrote:I'd think the alleged anger from the current 2 and 3Ls would have less to do with a "weaker" student body and more to do with "fuck this, I should have gotten a full ride."


Nobody here is dumb enough to think a 3 point median drop reflects a weaker student body. It's 3-4 questions on the LSAT. BFD.

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:23 pm

Interesting note re T14: We spent all year talking about which schools would let their medians drop to keep the class size the same and which schools would let class size drop to save the medians. Well, every single school that has kept its class size has kept its median, and every single school that has decreased class size lost their median (except for Y, down four students).

We thought schools were going to be hit roughly equally and would be deciding between their medians and their class size. Instead, we're actually just looking at a cycle with a bunch of clear winners and clear losers.

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Dmini7
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby Dmini7 » Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:32 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:Interesting note re T14: We spent all year talking about which schools would let their medians drop to keep the class size the same and which schools would let class size drop to save the medians. Well, every single school that has kept its class size has kept its median, and every single school that has decreased class size lost their median (except for Y, down four students).

We thought schools were going to be hit roughly equally and would be deciding between their medians and their class size. Instead, we're actually just looking at a cycle with a bunch of clear winners and clear losers.


I can only imagine what this means for GW. Increasing class size by like 80 students? I hope they have a drop similar to UMN

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minnbills
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby minnbills » Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:56 pm

Dmini7 wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:Interesting note re T14: We spent all year talking about which schools would let their medians drop to keep the class size the same and which schools would let class size drop to save the medians. Well, every single school that has kept its class size has kept its median, and every single school that has decreased class size lost their median (except for Y, down four students).

We thought schools were going to be hit roughly equally and would be deciding between their medians and their class size. Instead, we're actually just looking at a cycle with a bunch of clear winners and clear losers.


I can only imagine what this means for GW. Increasing class size by like 80 students? I hope they have a drop similar to UMN


I heard GW maintained?

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hephaestus
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby hephaestus » Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:38 pm

minnbills wrote:
Dmini7 wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:Interesting note re T14: We spent all year talking about which schools would let their medians drop to keep the class size the same and which schools would let class size drop to save the medians. Well, every single school that has kept its class size has kept its median, and every single school that has decreased class size lost their median (except for Y, down four students).

We thought schools were going to be hit roughly equally and would be deciding between their medians and their class size. Instead, we're actually just looking at a cycle with a bunch of clear winners and clear losers.


I can only imagine what this means for GW. Increasing class size by like 80 students? I hope they have a drop similar to UMN


I heard GW maintained?

Not re: LSAT right?

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Dmini7
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby Dmini7 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:07 am

minnbills wrote:
Dmini7 wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:Interesting note re T14: We spent all year talking about which schools would let their medians drop to keep the class size the same and which schools would let class size drop to save the medians. Well, every single school that has kept its class size has kept its median, and every single school that has decreased class size lost their median (except for Y, down four students).

We thought schools were going to be hit roughly equally and would be deciding between their medians and their class size. Instead, we're actually just looking at a cycle with a bunch of clear winners and clear losers.


I can only imagine what this means for GW. Increasing class size by like 80 students? I hope they have a drop similar to UMN


I heard GW maintained?


I refuse to believe the maintained. They had to have committed some serious gaming to keep their median.

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jbagelboy
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby jbagelboy » Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:31 am

Dmini7 wrote:
minnbills wrote:
Dmini7 wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:Interesting note re T14: We spent all year talking about which schools would let their medians drop to keep the class size the same and which schools would let class size drop to save the medians. Well, every single school that has kept its class size has kept its median, and every single school that has decreased class size lost their median (except for Y, down four students).

We thought schools were going to be hit roughly equally and would be deciding between their medians and their class size. Instead, we're actually just looking at a cycle with a bunch of clear winners and clear losers.


I can only imagine what this means for GW. Increasing class size by like 80 students? I hope they have a drop similar to UMN


I heard GW maintained?


I refuse to believe the maintained. They had to have committed some serious gaming to keep their median.


Their version of "gaming" was effectively acting entirely unscrupulous with regards to GPAs even for non-urms. Even super splitter friendly schools like Northwestern and UMN drew the line at a ~B- average; GWU took 167+ with barely passing (near 2.0) grades

20141023
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby 20141023 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:23 am

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Last edited by 20141023 on Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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longlivetheking
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby longlivetheking » Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:35 am

kappycaft1 wrote:I saw GW's C/O 2016 profile somewhere else online, and although I am not sure if it is real, I'd be willing to share the link if you all wanted to see it. :lol:


Image

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MoMettaMonk
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby MoMettaMonk » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:23 am

kappycaft1 wrote:I saw GW's C/O 2016 profile somewhere else online, and although I am not sure if it is real, I'd be willing to share the link if you all wanted to see it. :lol:


I need UCHi to start classes so that I can trust TLS info again.

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TheMostDangerousLG
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby TheMostDangerousLG » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:55 am

minnbills wrote:
ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) wrote:I'd think the alleged anger from the current 2 and 3Ls would have less to do with a "weaker" student body and more to do with "fuck this, I should have gotten a full ride."


Nobody here is dumb enough to think a 3 point median drop reflects a weaker student body. It's 3-4 questions on the LSAT. BFD.


Lol, yeah, it is a BFD unless you're talking about the difference between a 180 and a 177.

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The-Specs
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby The-Specs » Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:28 am

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Last edited by The-Specs on Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:14 pm

The whole process is just so sad and dumb. Minn is not the only school guilty of having ridiculous spreads. I think US News could recalculate class credentials to 25th + 75th divided by 2. That will help to make the classes more completive, and lessen the "ripped off" factor that many feel after finishing at the bottom of the curve.

This problem is only getting worse. When I applied to CU the class stats where 161/164/166. Last year the 25th LSAT was a wannabe-respectable 159. I'm afraid this year, what with our "largest class ever," the 25th LSAT is going to be 156 or less. Those students, along with all the TTT transfers I've met in the last few weeks, are going to be at a disadvantage. The 155 LSAT kids are destined for shit grades. The transfers only have 2 years to network instead of 3, a problem at schools like CU where you network into a job much more so than at top schools.

Side note: what is the highest spread between the quartiles? Minn is sitting at 11.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:20 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:The whole process is just so sad and dumb. Minn is not the only school guilty of having ridiculous spreads. I think US News could recalculate class credentials to 25th + 75th divided by 2. That will help to make the classes more completive, and lessen the "ripped off" factor that many feel after finishing at the bottom of the curve.

This problem is only getting worse. When I applied to CU the class stats where 161/164/166. Last year the 25th LSAT was a wannabe-respectable 159. I'm afraid this year, what with our "largest class ever," the 25th LSAT is going to be 156 or less. Those students, along with all the TTT transfers I've met in the last few weeks, are going to be at a disadvantage. The 155 LSAT kids are destined for shit grades. The transfers only have 2 years to network instead of 3, a problem at schools like CU where you network into a job much more so than at top schools.

Side note: what is the highest spread between the quartiles? Minn is sitting at 11.


Actually looking at the google doc it looks like Minn is the worse. Northeastern and Drake are also bad. (Drake has 25% of its students with a 158 or better, 25% of its students with a 149 or worse). Will have to wait and see on a bunch of schools for class of 2016.

Yeah Minn games medians the worst. Many schools had a respectable spread of 4 or 5 between the quartiles.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:24 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:The whole process is just so sad and dumb. Minn is not the only school guilty of having ridiculous spreads. I think US News could recalculate class credentials to 25th + 75th divided by 2. That will help to make the classes more completive, and lessen the "ripped off" factor that many feel after finishing at the bottom of the curve.

This problem is only getting worse. When I applied to CU the class stats where 161/164/166. Last year the 25th LSAT was a wannabe-respectable 159. I'm afraid this year, what with our "largest class ever," the 25th LSAT is going to be 156 or less. Those students, along with all the TTT transfers I've met in the last few weeks, are going to be at a disadvantage. The 155 LSAT kids are destined for shit grades. The transfers only have 2 years to network instead of 3, a problem at schools like CU where you network into a job much more so than at top schools.

Side note: what is the highest spread between the quartiles? Minn is sitting at 11.


Actually looking at the google doc it looks like Minn is the worse. Northeastern and Drake are also bad. (Drake has 25% of its students with a 158 or better, 25% of its students with a 149 or worse). Will have to wait and see on a bunch of schools for class of 2016.

Yeah Minn games medians the worst. Many schools had a respectable spread of 4 or 5 between the quartiles.

Indiana and Minnesota both had ten point spreads last year. Indiana hasn't posted its 25/75 splits but they had a two point median drop and could easily be in the 11+ range this year.

Edit: While 25th + 75th divided by two seems more fair, schools would just game that the same way. 3.3/177 would now have a chance at Harvard.

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cannibal ox
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby cannibal ox » Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:28 pm

Alabama was at 9 last year but haven't posted their stats this year.




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