C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

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SPerez
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby SPerez » Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:57 pm

KevinP wrote:Texas Tech:

155, 3.47, 217

Decline in lsat/gpa and in class size.

http://www.law.ttu.edu/prospective/admissions/faq/


I always tell people we can chill out here because no one is really "watching" us, but I guess I'll have to stop saying that! I came in here just to post the numbers, but you beat me to it. Now that my opinionations were requested I'll have to go back and read the rest of the thread over lunch.

BRB.

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jingosaur
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby jingosaur » Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:06 pm

Looking at the T14 right now, I think that the smaller schools will hold their numbers while the largers schools (especially the ones in non-urban locations) will continue taking hits. Berkeley probably had such a good cycle because they made the LSAT a bigger factor and I think more students are taking Berkeley at close to sticker over UC Davis or UC Hastings at a scholarship. I think most of the CA schools outside of S, B, UCLA, and USC are in for big hits. It looks like Pacific just took whoever they could and still had a 33% drop in enrollment.

BigZuck
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby BigZuck » Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:10 pm

jingosaur wrote:they made the LSAT a bigger factor


Tons of disappointed applicants wished this was true. Unfortunately, it's not.

04102014
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby 04102014 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:41 pm


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FKASunny
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby FKASunny » Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:53 pm

Vanderbilt official stats

163 - 167 - 169

3.45 - 3.74 - 3.85

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longlivetheking
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby longlivetheking » Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:56 pm

ohpobrecito wrote:Little lame. Where my medians?

http://www.law.nyu.edu/admissions/jdadm ... ssprofile/


trying to prevent splitters from gaming admissions.

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longlivetheking
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby longlivetheking » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:06 pm

longlivetheking wrote:
ohpobrecito wrote:Little lame. Where my medians?

http://www.law.nyu.edu/admissions/jdadm ... ssprofile/


trying to prevent splitters from gaming admissions.


Mike, can you enlighten us on why schools have recently started showing only 25/75ths? whats the point of hiding the medians?

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jingosaur
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby jingosaur » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:21 pm

BigZuck wrote:
jingosaur wrote:they made the LSAT a bigger factor


Tons of disappointed applicants wished this was true. Unfortunately, it's not.



BIGGER factor. They still care about the LSAT a lot less than any other T14.

SPerez
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby SPerez » Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:12 pm

longlivetheking wrote:
longlivetheking wrote:
ohpobrecito wrote:Little lame. Where my medians?

http://www.law.nyu.edu/admissions/jdadm ... ssprofile/


trying to prevent splitters from gaming admissions.


Mike, can you enlighten us on why schools have recently started showing only 25/75ths? whats the point of hiding the medians?


From what I was told, schools moved to 25th/75th percentiles as medians (thanks to USNWR) started to cause applicants to overly focus on that single number. The range, it was thought, gives a broader, more accurate picture of what an applicant's odds are at a particular school.

Now that the official ABA data isn't set until October, law schools can make the perfectly reasonable and understandable decision to not release any entering class data until the final, official numbers. I imagine some schools worry someone might point out a difference between the numbers at orientation and the official numbers and try to impute some nefarious reason behind the difference.

In today's climate though, when you release some data and not others you run the risk of being accused of doing so because your median dropped and you're hoping to get as far through fall recruitment season as possible before releasing the numbers.

To be clear, I'm NOT saying that any school that doesn't release medians is up to shenanigans. There are a lot of valid reasons why a school might not have released updated numbers yet.

Dean Perez

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longlivetheking
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby longlivetheking » Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:44 pm

SPerez wrote:
longlivetheking wrote:
longlivetheking wrote:
ohpobrecito wrote:Little lame. Where my medians?

http://www.law.nyu.edu/admissions/jdadm ... ssprofile/


trying to prevent splitters from gaming admissions.


Mike, can you enlighten us on why schools have recently started showing only 25/75ths? whats the point of hiding the medians?


From what I was told, schools moved to 25th/75th percentiles as medians (thanks to USNWR) started to cause applicants to overly focus on that single number. The range, it was thought, gives a broader, more accurate picture of what an applicant's odds are at a particular school.

Now that the official ABA data isn't set until October, law schools can make the perfectly reasonable and understandable decision to not release any entering class data until the final, official numbers. I imagine some schools worry someone might point out a difference between the numbers at orientation and the official numbers and try to impute some nefarious reason behind the difference.

In today's climate though, when you release some data and not others you run the risk of being accused of doing so because your median dropped and you're hoping to get as far through fall recruitment season as possible before releasing the numbers.

To be clear, I'm NOT saying that any school that doesn't release medians is up to shenanigans. There are a lot of valid reasons why a school might not have released updated numbers yet.

Dean Perez


thank you dean Perez for chiming in. but i think its understandable if some of us are skeptical of the explanation when some of the schools doing it, (NYU, Harvard), are some of the most number-conscious schools out there. i'm not suggesting there MUST be some nefarious reason, but that reason just seems to be as legit as NYU saying "we care a great deal about softs".

SPerez
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby SPerez » Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:54 pm

longlivetheking wrote:
SPerez wrote:
From what I was told, schools moved to 25th/75th percentiles as medians (thanks to USNWR) started to cause applicants to overly focus on that single number. The range, it was thought, gives a broader, more accurate picture of what an applicant's odds are at a particular school.


thank you dean Perez for chiming in. but i think its understandable if some of us are skeptical of the explanation when some of the schools doing it, (NYU, Harvard), are some of the most number-conscious schools out there. i'm not suggesting there MUST be some nefarious reason, but that reason just seems to be as legit as NYU saying "we care a great deal about softs".


To clarify, the "move" happened like 10 years ago. (I also heard that one year the ABA did not require reporting of medians, the theory being this would thwart USNWR's rankings because schools would not have the number to give them. Many schools gave them anyway - with no way to verify if they were right or not - and USNWR just averaged the 25/75th for other schools. Medians were reported the next year.) Spivey might know better since he's WAY older than me.

You're right, though. It's a situation where both reasons could be true at the same time. It's all a question of how much you trust a law school's motives. And unfortunately, due to a handful of schools, we all seem to be treated as a little suspect as the default.

Dean Perez

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longlivetheking
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby longlivetheking » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:07 pm

SPerez wrote:
longlivetheking wrote:
SPerez wrote:
From what I was told, schools moved to 25th/75th percentiles as medians (thanks to USNWR) started to cause applicants to overly focus on that single number. The range, it was thought, gives a broader, more accurate picture of what an applicant's odds are at a particular school.


thank you dean Perez for chiming in. but i think its understandable if some of us are skeptical of the explanation when some of the schools doing it, (NYU, Harvard), are some of the most number-conscious schools out there. i'm not suggesting there MUST be some nefarious reason, but that reason just seems to be as legit as NYU saying "we care a great deal about softs".


To clarify, the "move" happened like 10 years ago. (I also heard that one year the ABA did not require reporting of medians, the theory being this would thwart USNWR's rankings because schools would not have the number to give them. Many schools gave them anyway - with no way to verify if they were right or not - and USNWR just averaged the 25/75th for other schools. Medians were reported the next year.) Spivey might know better since he's WAY older than me.

You're right, though. It's a situation where both reasons could be true at the same time. It's all a question of how much you trust a law school's motives. And unfortunately, due to a handful of schools, we all seem to be treated as a little suspect as the default.

Dean Perez


i was under the impression nyu/harvard withheld medians only 2 cycles ago, perfectly timing it with the drop in applicants? now as lsat takers we all know, correlation doesn't prove causation, but it does give some credence to a conspiracy.

Full Disclosure: i also believe in UFOs.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:56 pm

SPerez wrote:
longlivetheking wrote:
SPerez wrote:
From what I was told, schools moved to 25th/75th percentiles as medians (thanks to USNWR) started to cause applicants to overly focus on that single number. The range, it was thought, gives a broader, more accurate picture of what an applicant's odds are at a particular school.


thank you dean Perez for chiming in. but i think its understandable if some of us are skeptical of the explanation when some of the schools doing it, (NYU, Harvard), are some of the most number-conscious schools out there. i'm not suggesting there MUST be some nefarious reason, but that reason just seems to be as legit as NYU saying "we care a great deal about softs".


To clarify, the "move" happened like 10 years ago. (I also heard that one year the ABA did not require reporting of medians, the theory being this would thwart USNWR's rankings because schools would not have the number to give them. Many schools gave them anyway - with no way to verify if they were right or not - and USNWR just averaged the 25/75th for other schools. Medians were reported the next year.) Spivey might know better since he's WAY older than me.

You're right, though. It's a situation where both reasons could be true at the same time. It's all a question of how much you trust a law school's motives. And unfortunately, due to a handful of schools, we all seem to be treated as a little suspect as the default.

Dean Perez


Since I am way more handsome I will answer. I believe that year the ABA didn't require the median because USNWR the previous year had used a "calculated" median 25th + 75th/2.

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Dmini7
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby Dmini7 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:00 pm

ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) wrote:Vanderbilt official stats

163 - 167 - 169

3.45 - 3.74 - 3.85



Wow, am I the only one surprised at how low their minority enrollment percentage is? I mean its only 17%. Would you guys argue this is because its a southern school that doesn't really attract students of those caliber numbers as minorities(Since presumably they would have better options and the south may not be ideal to those who did not grow up there) or would this be in part because unlike schools like UC's that determine students of color(i.e: anything but white) they are only talking about underrepresented students. I am just surprised they weren't able to attract more as unlike UC's they are not limited by laws forbidding explicitly using race as a factor. Well atleast as far as I understand it they are not forbidden.

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FKASunny
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby FKASunny » Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:28 pm

.
Last edited by FKASunny on Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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JCougar
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa

Postby JCougar » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:31 pm

ManoftheHour wrote:
RetakeFrenzy wrote:http://www.law.ucla.edu/prospective-students/admission-information/Pages/incoming-class-profile.aspx

UCLA (#17)

293 enrolled
3.51/3.79/3.89
162/167/169


That's fucking awesome.


Seems like someone screwed up here, because they were rejecting tons of 167s earlier in the cycle. Their LSN graph makes it look like they were really trying for a 168. They're probably lucky they didn't have a bigger collapse after rejecting all those 167s.

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RetakeFrenzy
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa

Postby RetakeFrenzy » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:49 pm

JCougar wrote:
ManoftheHour wrote:
RetakeFrenzy wrote:http://www.law.ucla.edu/prospective-students/admission-information/Pages/incoming-class-profile.aspx

UCLA (#17)

293 enrolled
3.51/3.79/3.89
162/167/169


That's fucking awesome.


Seems like someone screwed up here, because they were rejecting tons of 167s earlier in the cycle. Their LSN graph makes it look like they were really trying for a 168. They're probably lucky they didn't have a bigger collapse after rejecting all those 167s.


They probably learned a lesson from the case of WUSTL :D

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longlivetheking
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa

Postby longlivetheking » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:58 pm

RetakeFrenzy wrote:
JCougar wrote:
ManoftheHour wrote:
RetakeFrenzy wrote:http://www.law.ucla.edu/prospective-students/admission-information/Pages/incoming-class-profile.aspx

UCLA (#17)

293 enrolled
3.51/3.79/3.89
162/167/169


That's fucking awesome.


Seems like someone screwed up here, because they were rejecting tons of 167s earlier in the cycle. Their LSN graph makes it look like they were really trying for a 168. They're probably lucky they didn't have a bigger collapse after rejecting all those 167s.


They probably learned a lesson from the case of WUSTL :D


what lesson?

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Ramius
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby Ramius » Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:02 pm

WUSTL was raining $$$ like it's 1999 IPOs this last cycle for 166 LSATs.

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RetakeFrenzy
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa

Postby RetakeFrenzy » Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:19 am

longlivetheking wrote:
RetakeFrenzy wrote:
JCougar wrote:Seems like someone screwed up here, because they were rejecting tons of 167s earlier in the cycle. Their LSN graph makes it look like they were really trying for a 168. They're probably lucky they didn't have a bigger collapse after rejecting all those 167s.


They probably learned a lesson from the case of WUSTL :D


what lesson?


Last year, WUSTL either rejected or waitlisted most 167s. When their 168 LSAT median wall fell down, they didn't have enough 167s so they ended up suffering a 2-point drop.

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altoid99
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby altoid99 » Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:07 am

Updated with numbers from Indiana, Vanderbilt, W&L, Richmond, Nebraska, Seton Hall, Texas Tech, Montana, and Qunnipiac. Enjoy! :lol:

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Dmini7
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby Dmini7 » Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:51 am

134) Quinnipiac: 154 (-2), 3.33 (-.06), 85 (-42)

Wow.

edit: wait, they were intentionally cutting class sizes due to funding right?

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jingosaur
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby jingosaur » Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:32 am

Dmini7 wrote:134) Quinnipiac: 154 (-2), 3.33 (-.06), 85 (-42)

Wow.

edit: wait, they were intentionally cutting class sizes due to funding right?



I didn't know that Quinnipiac had a law school. Wow on those numbers either way.

BigZuck
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby BigZuck » Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:57 am

jingosaur wrote:
Dmini7 wrote:134) Quinnipiac: 154 (-2), 3.33 (-.06), 85 (-42)

Wow.

edit: wait, they were intentionally cutting class sizes due to funding right?



I didn't know that Quinnipiac had a law school. Wow on those numbers either way.


What's a Quinnipiac? Is that a province in Canada?

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Yukos
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby Yukos » Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:35 pm

They lost a third of their class and their LSAT median still dropped two points? Ouch.




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