C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

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TheJanitor6203
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:56 pm

I can't open the spreadsheet at work. Is that a 2 point drop at Fordham and BU?!?

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hephaestus
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby hephaestus » Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:57 pm

TheJanitor6203 wrote:I can't open the spreadsheet at work. Is that a 2 point drop at Fordham and BU?!?

BU is 165, Fordham is 163.

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TheJanitor6203
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:58 pm

I mean from last years

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cannibal ox
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby cannibal ox » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:27 pm

TheJanitor6203 wrote:I can't open the spreadsheet at work. Is that a 2 point drop at Fordham and BU?!?


Both are down 1.

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AT9
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby AT9 » Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:10 pm

KoolGJ wrote:Looking back at a previous version of the Emory page from August courtesy of the wayback machine:

http://web.archive.org/web/201208230557 ... ments.html

It seems that the only thing they changed on the page was the GPA from 3.7 to 3.75. The class size of 245 language is the same, the LSAT score is the same; they just added this one digit. I am not sure if these are new numbers for the Class of 2016 or maybe a correction of the old ones.


Is it more likely they made a mistake of .05 on the GPA, or that they held the exact same LSAT, the exam same class size, and an increased GPA of .05? I think the former...at least I hope so for my sake.

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DoveBodyWash
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby DoveBodyWash » Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:43 pm

I wouldn't be too surprised if Emory fared better than schools like UMN, ND, or GW.

If you're under-informed about things, which most applicants are, then Emory is THE school you wanna go to if you wanna live in Atlanta. Or so you would assume by virtue of it being the best ranked school in the city/state. And Atlanta's a pretty popular city. If you wanna live in D.C. you have other options besides GW. And Minneapolis and Indianapolis don't have the same draw as Atlanta does.

This is all in addition to the fact that Emory is still very generous relative to other schools.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby Dr. Dre » Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:56 pm

TheJanitor6203 wrote:I can't open the spreadsheet at work. Is that a 2 point drop at Fordham and BU?!?


what do you do, brother? e.g., legal secretary, clerk, busboy, etc.

tyia

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jingosaur
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby jingosaur » Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:57 pm

cusenation wrote:I wouldn't be too surprised if Emory fared better than schools like UMN, ND, or GW.

If you're under-informed about things, which most applicants are, then Emory is THE school you wanna go to if you wanna live in Atlanta. Or so you would assume by virtue of it being the best ranked school in the city/state. And Atlanta's a pretty popular city. If you wanna live in D.C. you have other options besides GW. And Minneapolis and Indianapolis don't have the same draw as Atlanta does.

This is all in addition to the fact that Emory is still very generous relative to other schools.


Like WUSTL, Emory also has a much more prestigious UG program than UMN and GW. Since WUSTL gave out so much money to maintain their median, it's hard to tell whether its UG strength helped at all.

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AT9
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby AT9 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:02 am

cusenation wrote:I wouldn't be too surprised if Emory fared better than schools like UMN, ND, or GW.

If you're under-informed about things, which most applicants are, then Emory is THE school you wanna go to if you wanna live in Atlanta. Or so you would assume by virtue of it being the best ranked school in the city/state. And Atlanta's a pretty popular city. If you wanna live in D.C. you have other options besides GW. And Minneapolis and Indianapolis don't have the same draw as Atlanta does.

This is all in addition to the fact that Emory is still very generous relative to other schools.


Minneapolis is fairly popular as well, at least for people looking to live in the Midwest. I'm betting the generosity has more to do with it, but who knows.

I wouldn't be too surprised if Emory fared better, just not hold the median, boost GPA, and maintain the same class size better. Not when almost every other peer school is taking a hit.

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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby sublime » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:02 am

..

BigZuck
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby BigZuck » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:12 am

I didn't realize Emory was so generous this past cycle, from what I remembered they were about on par with Vandy for me and significantly less generous than Minn and WUSTL. Were lots of people copping dat Woody?

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TheJanitor6203
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:37 am

Dr. Dre wrote:
TheJanitor6203 wrote:I can't open the spreadsheet at work. Is that a 2 point drop at Fordham and BU?!?


what do you do, brother? e.g., legal secretary, clerk, busboy, etc.

tyia

Army. Currently working as a glorified secretary. For some reason I can't open the google doc on a government computer and my phone wouldn't open it yesterday either.

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haus
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby haus » Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:38 am

TheJanitor6203 wrote:
Dr. Dre wrote:
TheJanitor6203 wrote:I can't open the spreadsheet at work. Is that a 2 point drop at Fordham and BU?!?


what do you do, brother? e.g., legal secretary, clerk, busboy, etc.

tyia

Army. Currently working as a glorified secretary. For some reason I can't open the google doc on a government computer and my phone wouldn't open it yesterday either.

I cannot speak to your phone, but several gov/mil networks block some or all google docs.

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TheJanitor6203
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:40 am

Yes, it's blocked. I guess what I meant to say was that my government computer blocks the google doc and for some reason my phone wouldn't open it yesterday either. I ended up getting it open on my phone but it took me a while.

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FKASunny
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby FKASunny » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:03 am

AT9 wrote:
cusenation wrote:I wouldn't be too surprised if Emory fared better than schools like UMN, ND, or GW.

If you're under-informed about things, which most applicants are, then Emory is THE school you wanna go to if you wanna live in Atlanta. Or so you would assume by virtue of it being the best ranked school in the city/state. And Atlanta's a pretty popular city. If you wanna live in D.C. you have other options besides GW. And Minneapolis and Indianapolis don't have the same draw as Atlanta does.

This is all in addition to the fact that Emory is still very generous relative to other schools.


Minneapolis is fairly popular as well, at least for people looking to live in the Midwest. I'm betting the generosity has more to do with it, but who knows.

I wouldn't be too surprised if Emory fared better, just not hold the median, boost GPA, and maintain the same class size better. Not when almost every other peer school is taking a hit.


Minneapolis is sort of popular, but the Atlanta metro area alone is more populous than Minnesota. Throw in the fact that Emory is ranked higher than any law school in Florida and carries a lot of lay prestige there (and Florida is more populous than Minnesota, Wisconsin, and the Dakotas combined,) and they have plenty of applicants to choose from who think Emory is a gateway to Atlanta and Florida.

Minnesota is markedly more generous in scholarships, especially to splittlers. The "draw" of Minneapolis probably has little to nothing to do with their ranking.

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TheJanitor6203
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:44 am

I think TLSer's live in a bubble. I don't think most people going to law school realize the importance of going to a top school. I know when I talk to people about going to law school who aren't going they all say I should go to X school and it's almost always a TTT. I also have 3 family memebers who are lawyers and all of them went to TTT's and they have all recommended going to their school. They think I'm being snobby or something because I told them I'm not applying there and I'm only applying to T14 and two strong regionals (that all of them were denied by). So I think a majority of people applying to law school are only going off of lay prestige, family recommendation, and the cool emails law schools send talking about how awesome their library is.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:58 am

TheJanitor6203 wrote:I think TLSer's live in a bubble. I don't think most people going to law school realize the importance of going to a top school. I know when I talk to people about going to law school who aren't going they all say I should go to X school and it's almost always a TTT. I also have 3 family memebers who are lawyers and all of them went to TTT's and they have all recommended going to their school. They think I'm being snobby or something because I told them I'm not applying there and I'm only applying to T14 and two strong regionals (that all of them were denied by). So I think a majority of people applying to law school are only going off of lay prestige, family recommendation, and the cool emails law schools send talking about how awesome their library is.


There is a way to tell them you're applying to high ranking schools without sounding snobby. But yeah TLS is a bubble. People don't watch the news to learn, people watch the news to confirm what they already believe. TLS is a very comfortable culture for 500 or so human beings who check this site regularly.

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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:09 pm

BigZuck wrote:
What are we missing that LST isn't providing us?


It's a piece of the puzzle. I'm a big fan of LST, of course.

You know what I miss though. That one graph some TLS dooder made for the cycle 3 years ago. He may have actually made it twice, for 2008 and 2009. It had 1-100 schools and easily showed what percentage of each class was making a certain amount of dollars. It also had fed clerks up front, so you could see that at UT, for example, 41% of the last class secured either a fed clerkship or were making at least 90k a year. It was a great depiction of differences in regional salaries for small, mid, and big law, which are huge.

No one method is going to be perfect. People should consider many factors including alumni support. Non T14 schools send most of their students into similar entry level jobs, but UF's alumni is going to be 1000% more helpful than Stetsons (think alumni association membership that includes all the undergrad alums too...). Over the course of a career, this is big difference. No offense to LST, but you can't find that information on their website. Again, piece of the puzzle.

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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby Motivator9 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:04 pm

TheJanitor6203 wrote:I think TLSer's live in a bubble. I don't think most people going to law school realize the importance of going to a top school. I know when I talk to people about going to law school who aren't going they all say I should go to X school and it's almost always a TTT. I also have 3 family memebers who are lawyers and all of them went to TTT's and they have all recommended going to their school. They think I'm being snobby or something because I told them I'm not applying there and I'm only applying to T14 and two strong regionals (that all of them were denied by). So I think a majority of people applying to law school are only going off of lay prestige, family recommendation, and the cool emails law schools send talking about how awesome their library is.


I couldn't agree more. Yesterday, I was talking to this girl about the LSAT and going to law school. She brought up a friend she had that goes to John Marshall Law School in Georgia. Her friends justification was that it was accredited. Bless her heart. Honestly, I just don't like seeing wasted potential. People who graduate with top GPAs and departmental honors but for some reason, they can't find it in themselves to dedicate a small portion of the amount of time they spent for earning their grades to the LSAT.

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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby Tiago Splitter » Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:09 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
TheJanitor6203 wrote:I think TLSer's live in a bubble. I don't think most people going to law school realize the importance of going to a top school. I know when I talk to people about going to law school who aren't going they all say I should go to X school and it's almost always a TTT. I also have 3 family memebers who are lawyers and all of them went to TTT's and they have all recommended going to their school. They think I'm being snobby or something because I told them I'm not applying there and I'm only applying to T14 and two strong regionals (that all of them were denied by). So I think a majority of people applying to law school are only going off of lay prestige, family recommendation, and the cool emails law schools send talking about how awesome their library is.


There is a way to tell them you're applying to high ranking schools without sounding snobby. But yeah TLS is a bubble. People don't watch the news to learn, people watch the news to confirm what they already believe. TLS is a very comfortable culture for 500 or so human beings who check this site regularly.

The reality is that applications are half of what they were ten years ago. Whatever the cause, the message is getting out. There will always be people who fall for the scam but the number of people falling for it is dramatically lower than what it was even a few years ago.

resilience99
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby resilience99 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:17 pm

ImNoScar wrote:
TheJanitor6203 wrote:I can't open the spreadsheet at work. Is that a 2 point drop at Fordham and BU?!?

BU is 165, Fordham is 163.


Fordham numbers are worng because they only say for full time student, they don't include part timers which have lower numbers. they have yet to confirm their entering class numbers

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TheJanitor6203
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:23 pm

resilience99 wrote:
ImNoScar wrote:
TheJanitor6203 wrote:I can't open the spreadsheet at work. Is that a 2 point drop at Fordham and BU?!?

BU is 165, Fordham is 163.


Fordham numbers are worng because they only say for full time student, they don't include part timers which have lower numbers. they have yet to confirm their entering class numbers

I think it's better that the median does not include the PT students since the majority of people who want to know the medians are only concerned about applying to FT programs.

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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby McGruff » Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:27 pm

TheJanitor6203 wrote:
resilience99 wrote:
ImNoScar wrote:
TheJanitor6203 wrote:I can't open the spreadsheet at work. Is that a 2 point drop at Fordham and BU?!?

BU is 165, Fordham is 163.


Fordham numbers are worng because they only say for full time student, they don't include part timers which have lower numbers. they have yet to confirm their entering class numbers

I think it's better that the median does not include the PT students since the majority of people who want to know the medians are only concerned about applying to FT programs.


The medians DO include PT students though.

Edit: At least, assuming we're trying to come up with what USNWR cares about, since that's what the schools care about. I can see your point but since the school doesn't get to separate them in the ranking data, the school probably looks at them similarly.

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TheJanitor6203
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:30 pm

And I still
think it's better that the median does not include the PT students since the majority of people who want to know the medians are only concerned about applying to FT programs.

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McGruff
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby McGruff » Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:34 pm

TheJanitor6203 wrote:And I still
think it's better that the median does not include the PT students since the majority of people who want to know the medians are only concerned about applying to FT programs.


But why would the PT inclusion be irrelevant to their interests when the USNWR methodology implies that schools likely use the same metrics when evaluating PT numbers as FT numbers? I agree that FT data is better than nothing, but how is it better than the whole picture? (srs question as I think I might be missing your point)




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