C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

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052220151
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby 052220151 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:17 pm

longlivetheking wrote:
KingFish wrote:
longlivetheking wrote:
TheMostDangerousLG wrote:UChi's 25th LSAT is a 166. :shock: Looks like we know where they fall on the LSAT v. GPA side of things.

It's tough out there for a splitter.


are splitters essentially fucked? every school besides Columbia and NYU is going to be splitter-unfriendly because they can take 169s instead of 170s to maintain their medians.

You're not fucked if you can go to CLS or NYU.


]stupid picture.jpg]


I don't think you get what he is saying.

The answer to your question is no, you're not fucked.

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BruinRegents
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby BruinRegents » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:19 pm

That's kinda rude. Your question was obvious. Poster was saying you'll be fine.

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jbagelboy
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby jbagelboy » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:50 pm

Moreover, it's not even true. Just because a schools median is 169 doesn't inherently make it less splitter friendly. It just means that more 169's can consider themselves splitters.

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moonman157
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby moonman157 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:59 pm

jbagelboy wrote:Moreover, it's not even true. Just because a schools median is 169 doesn't inherently make it less splitter friendly. It just means that more 169's can consider themselves splitters.



This. It's not exactly like schools are gonna be like "Well not that our LSAT median has slipped to 169 it's time to stop caring about it and we'll focus only on GPA!" The only difference is that people who have a 170 are now above median for a lot of schools where they were at median a cycle ago.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:06 pm

moonman157 wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:Moreover, it's not even true. Just because a schools median is 169 doesn't inherently make it less splitter friendly. It just means that more 169's can consider themselves splitters.



This. It's not exactly like schools are gonna be like "Well not that our LSAT median has slipped to 169 it's time to stop caring about it and we'll focus only on GPA!" The only difference is that people who have a 170 are now above median for a lot of schools where they were at median a cycle ago.

The problem is that by lowering LSAT standards schools face less pressure to lower GPA floors. But in this environment of rapidly declining applications they are getting hit on both fronts and it doesn't seem to really matter.

splitcity
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby splitcity » Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:20 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
moonman157 wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:Moreover, it's not even true. Just because a schools median is 169 doesn't inherently make it less splitter friendly. It just means that more 169's can consider themselves splitters.



This. It's not exactly like schools are gonna be like "Well not that our LSAT median has slipped to 169 it's time to stop caring about it and we'll focus only on GPA!" The only difference is that people who have a 170 are now above median for a lot of schools where they were at median a cycle ago.

The problem is that by lowering LSAT standards schools face less pressure to lower GPA floors. But in this environment of rapidly declining applications they are getting hit on both fronts and it doesn't seem to really matter.


But doesn't that open up an opportunity for schools that maintain or heighten their LSAT standards to move up in rankings? All those super splitters getting rejected by t15-20 schools could end up going somewhere like WUSTL and while the former would increase its GPA, the latter would increase its LSATs which are more significantly weighted in the rankings.

I mean really, the main factor separating schools is LSAT median. You can go as far down as 60 or 70 in the rankings and find a school with a GPA median very similar to a school in the top 20. You can't do that with LSATs.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:27 pm

splitcity wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:The problem is that by lowering LSAT standards schools face less pressure to lower GPA floors. But in this environment of rapidly declining applications they are getting hit on both fronts and it doesn't seem to really matter.


But doesn't that open up an opportunity for schools that maintain or heighten their LSAT standards to move up in rankings? All those super splitters getting rejected by t15-20 schools could end up going somewhere like WUSTL and while the former would increase its GPA, the latter would increase its LSATs which are more significantly weighted in the rankings.

I mean really, the main factor separating schools is LSAT median. You can go as far down as 60 or 70 in the rankings and find a school with a GPA median very similar to a school in the top 20. You can't do that with LSATs.

The top schools aren't increasing their GPA medians. They're holding on for dear life but still losing a point on the LSAT median. There simply aren't enough high LSAT scores to go around anymore.

Looking at LSN you can see that schools like WUSTL, Minnesota, and GW have long since given up on even a pretense of a GPA floor, but that hasn't helped them pull up their LSAT median with such a large reduction in LSAT takers and applicants.
Last edited by Tiago Splitter on Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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stillwater
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby stillwater » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:09 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
splitcity wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:The problem is that by lowering LSAT standards schools face less pressure to lower GPA floors. But in this environment of rapidly declining applications they are getting hit on both fronts and it doesn't seem to really matter.


But doesn't that open up an opportunity for schools that maintain or heighten their LSAT standards to move up in rankings? All those super splitters getting rejected by t15-20 schools could end up going somewhere like WUSTL and while the former would increase its GPA, the latter would increase its LSATs which are more significantly weighted in the rankings.

I mean really, the main factor separating schools is LSAT median. You can go as far down as 60 or 70 in the rankings and find a school with a GPA median very similar to a school in the top 20. You can't do that with LSATs.

The top schools aren't increasing their GPA medians. Their holding on for dear life but still losing a point on the LSAT median. There simply aren't enough high LSAT scores to go around anymore.

Looking at LSN you can see that schools like WUSTL, Minnesota, and GW have long since given up on even a pretense of a GPA floor, but that hasn't helped them pull up their LSAT median with such a large reduction in LSAT takers and applicants.


i think this is pretty spot-on. there's just not enough to go around w/r/t LSATs. the only solution is to shrink class sizes but that crimps their cash-flow. i think admins will largely choose relative prestige and eschew absolutist approaches if they can keep the money coming in. I think only HYS will be able to hold medians for the foreseeable future.

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bouleversement
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby bouleversement » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:54 pm

If we're talking prestige, LSAT medians obviously trump GPA medians for reasons described ITT. The applicants whose fortunes may be changing the most starting this cycle could be those with 99th percentile LSAT scores and mid-range GPAs (i.e. 3.40-3.60) who previously never had much of chance of acceptance at HYS and never much of a chance for $$$ at CCN.

We have seen some serious bloodletting this cycle and top schools more than any are going to want to stem the tide. What admissions office data point screams strength more than a high LSAT median? I don't therefore see why strong splitters are bound to suffer.

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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby snagglepuss » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:06 pm

bouleversement wrote:If we're talking prestige, LSAT medians obviously trump GPA medians for reasons described ITT. The applicants whose fortunes may be changing the most starting this cycle could be those with 99th percentile LSAT scores and mid-range GPAs (i.e. 3.40-3.60) who previously never had much of chance of acceptance at HYS and never much of a chance for $$$ at CCN.

We have seen some serious bloodletting this cycle and top schools more than any are going to want to stem the tide. What admissions office data point screams strength more than a high LSAT median? I don't therefore see why strong splitters are bound to suffer.


I think TLS's veneration for LSAT medians and 170+ LSATs is a bit overblown. HYS has a firm grasp on the top 3 regardless (and irregardless :wink: ) of their LSAT medians. I get the impression they're GPA hounds who seem unlikely to reach below 3.7/3.75 with any regularity even if this means Stanford going sub-170. I just don't see YSH sounding the alarm over LSAT percentiles this year.
I'd like to believe the Harvard diploma mill would snatch up 3.5-3.7's with 173/4+ LSATs, but I'm not holding my breath.

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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby cotiger » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:25 pm

snagglepuss wrote:
bouleversement wrote:If we're talking prestige, LSAT medians obviously trump GPA medians for reasons described ITT. The applicants whose fortunes may be changing the most starting this cycle could be those with 99th percentile LSAT scores and mid-range GPAs (i.e. 3.40-3.60) who previously never had much of chance of acceptance at HYS and never much of a chance for $$$ at CCN.

We have seen some serious bloodletting this cycle and top schools more than any are going to want to stem the tide. What admissions office data point screams strength more than a high LSAT median? I don't therefore see why strong splitters are bound to suffer.


I think TLS's veneration for LSAT medians and 170+ LSATs is a bit overblown. HYS has a firm grasp on the top 3 regardless (and irregardless :wink: ) of their LSAT medians. I get the impression they're GPA hounds who seem unlikely to reach below 3.7/3.75 with any regularity even if this means Stanford going sub-170. I just don't see YSH sounding the alarm over LSAT percentiles this year.
I'd like to believe the Harvard diploma mill would snatch up 3.5-3.7's with 173/4+ LSATs, but I'm not holding my breath.


Maybe they're not "snatching them up," but they're certainly interested. Last year, 3.50-3.70's w/ 174+ got accepted 39% at HLS, per LSN.

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jk148706
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby jk148706 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:48 pm

So have we seen actual numbers for GW yet?

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snagglepuss
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby snagglepuss » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:55 pm

cotiger wrote:
snagglepuss wrote:
bouleversement wrote:


... I'd like to believe the Harvard diploma mill would snatch up 3.5-3.7's with 173/4+ LSATs, but I'm not holding my breath.


Maybe they're not "snatching them up," but they're certainly interested. Last year, 3.50-3.70's w/ 174+ got accepted 39% at HLS, per LSN.


Good call. I do think 3.4+, 173+ applicants should be sending apps, but I still sense a pretty firm 3.55 floor.
Perhaps, Harvard is trending towards being more splitter friendly.

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jk148706
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby jk148706 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:15 am

Also, where are these ND numbers coming from? Not doubting them just interested in the source.

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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby altoid99 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:23 am

jk148706 wrote:Also, where are these ND numbers coming from? Not doubting them just interested in the source.


Yeah, I'd like to know the source for this too. A 3 point drop would be pretty epic.

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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby Nova » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:42 am

altoid99 wrote:
jk148706 wrote:Also, where are these ND numbers coming from? Not doubting them just interested in the source.


Yeah, I'd like to know the source for this too. A 3 point drop would be pretty epic.

Some flyer at a law school fair

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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby altoid99 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:51 am

Nova wrote:
altoid99 wrote:
jk148706 wrote:Also, where are these ND numbers coming from? Not doubting them just interested in the source.


Yeah, I'd like to know the source for this too. A 3 point drop would be pretty epic.

Some flyer at a law school fair


Sounds legit

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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby Bobzilla » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:01 am

I know this isn't a what are my chances thread but let me use myself as an example here. I have an extremely low GPA (2.99, yeah the worst possible) and my LSAT results will be in soon, let's say I get a 166. So at a school like BC, where the median is 164 and the 75% is 165, are my chances thereby increased solely because I'm higher than those two numbers? As in, if my score was actually a 168 would thatactually boost my chances at all, given I'm already doing my part to raise the median, in which case I should apply to Cornell?

I guess my question is where should your LSAT score be in relation to the released data; is any score above median a good shot now or does it need to be substantially above, especially for splitters?

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jk148706
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby jk148706 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:04 am

Nova wrote:
altoid99 wrote:
jk148706 wrote:Also, where are these ND numbers coming from? Not doubting them just interested in the source.


Yeah, I'd like to know the source for this too. A 3 point drop would be pretty epic.

Some flyer at a law school fair


Leggiitt

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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby 20141023 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:38 am

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Last edited by 20141023 on Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BruinRegents
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby BruinRegents » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:52 am

kappycaft1 wrote:Once you're above the 75th percentile, you really don't help the school in any way (unless they are trying to raise their numbers, which is unlikely given the current situation). Also, only the median counts as part of the USNWR ranking's score anyway, so even if you do pull their 75th percentile up, it doesn't really help them out.

A lot of schools also have loose GPA floors (meaning that they still take people below that floor, but they try not to if they can avoid it); a 3.0 GPA seems to be a pretty "loose" floor for a lot of "decent" schools. :| Having said that, I know absolutely nothing about BC, but if you could spend some more time studying and get into the 170s, you'd have a good shot at some of the lower T14 (especially Northwestern (RD) and UVA (ED)).

Reg, can you please expand on the bolded? Thanks.

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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby 2x2Matrix » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:58 am

BruinRegents wrote:
kappycaft1 wrote:Once you're above the 75th percentile, you really don't help the school in any way (unless they are trying to raise their numbers, which is unlikely given the current situation). Also, only the median counts as part of the USNWR ranking's score anyway, so even if you do pull their 75th percentile up, it doesn't really help them out.

A lot of schools also have loose GPA floors (meaning that they still take people below that floor, but they try not to if they can avoid it); a 3.0 GPA seems to be a pretty "loose" floor for a lot of "decent" schools. :| Having said that, I know absolutely nothing about BC, but if you could spend some more time studying and get into the 170s, you'd have a good shot at some of the lower T14 (especially Northwestern (RD) and UVA (ED)).

Reg, can you please expand on the bolded? Thanks.


As far as statistics are concerned, whether you're 1 point above the 75th percentile, or you're 5 points above it, you're statistically the same thing - a count of 1 above the 75th percentile. I think same goes with GPAs - whether you have a 3.99 or a 4.15, you affect the median and 75th percentile statistics the exact same way.

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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby BruinRegents » Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:03 am

2x2Matrix wrote:
BruinRegents wrote:
kappycaft1 wrote:Once you're above the 75th percentile, you really don't help the school in any way (unless they are trying to raise their numbers, which is unlikely given the current situation). Also, only the median counts as part of the USNWR ranking's score anyway, so even if you do pull their 75th percentile up, it doesn't really help them out.

A lot of schools also have loose GPA floors (meaning that they still take people below that floor, but they try not to if they can avoid it); a 3.0 GPA seems to be a pretty "loose" floor for a lot of "decent" schools. :| Having said that, I know absolutely nothing about BC, but if you could spend some more time studying and get into the 170s, you'd have a good shot at some of the lower T14 (especially Northwestern (RD) and UVA (ED)).

Reg, can you please expand on the bolded? Thanks.


As far as statistics are concerned, whether you're 1 point above the 75th percentile, or you're 5 points above it, you're statistically the same thing - a count of 1 above the 75th percentile. I think same goes with GPAs - whether you have a 3.99 or a 4.15, you affect the median and 75th percentile statistics the exact same way.

If that's what he meant then I gotcha. Thanks.

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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby 20141023 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:42 am

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Last edited by 20141023 on Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jk148706
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby jk148706 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:02 am

Cincinnati

LSAT median: 158
GPA median: 3.5

http://www.law.uc.edu/prospective-stude ... -admission




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