C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

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jbagelboy
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:26 am

cotiger wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
cotiger wrote:
rebexness wrote:That 100k business is ridiculously untrue.


Why do you say that? Looking at LSN, they gave 170s (NOT 170+s), with a 3.4+ GPA money 67% of the time at an average of 110k. And that's on the 92% (24 total, so not a super small sample) that they let in, another T14 high.

Compare that to Penn, which at 170 and 3.8+ only gave money to 50% at an average of 50k. And that's on top of only letting 77% (20) in. That's a significant difference. So even when you adjust for the difference in tier of schools (ie Penn keeping it classy on the GPA front), NU was still much more aggressive trying to keep that 170.

Is there something I'm missing?


I had a 172 and I got less that $100K total from Northwestern (rec'd $90K). So the claim that all 170's were getting scholarships higher than mine doesnt compute. Its also not representative of the cycle itself, because I was there in the thread watching results and negotiations come in. There were plenty of 170s and 171s getting $30K and $60K total grants


I didn't say all got it, just most (67%). And the 110k is an average, so for sure not everyone is going to get that. But still, that means that a 170 has a most likely better than 50/50 chance at 100k from Northwestern, which is much, much better than anywhere else in the T14. "Almost everyone" was a bit of an exaggeration, but my underlying point that NU was whoring out for 170s way more than everyone else still stands.

Also, that LSN data for NU is 26 data points for 170 and 3.4+. Stretch that to 170-172, and it becomes 62 data points with similar results. Did last year's thread have so many more people in those score ranges that it would be more accurate than LSN? (note: I don't actually know how many people join those threads).

t14splitter wrote:What you are missing is that they offer nearly a full ride (150k) to everyone who is accepted early decision. That will completely skew the scholarship money on LSN.


No, that LSN search excluded ED.


Mylsn is a useful tool, but when it comes to scholarship values especially, there's a non-negligible number of people who do not update, or simply dont display their information for that school. At some point in your cycle you may have the opportunity to speak with Johann Lee on this subject, and you'll see that its much less straightforward. Northwestern gives four types of scholarship grants above $100K:
1) ED
2) 1-yr Deferred admission to highly qualified k-jd's
3) $120 and 4) $150 Dean's scholarships - these go to exclusively 170+/3.75+, in other words, above BOTH medians (urm's excluded).

LSN is telling you that 67% of those with LSATs over 170 received scholarships. Among those individuals, the mean amount was $110: this is a whole lot of 60Ks and 90Ks, and a small few 150's, many deferred k-jds, skewing the average over 110. Many more of the lower or no scholarship candidates did not report.

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cotiger
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby cotiger » Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:53 am

jbagelboy wrote:Mylsn is a useful tool, but when it comes to scholarship values especially, there's a non-negligible number of people who do not update, or simply dont display their information for that school. At some point in your cycle you may have the opportunity to speak with Johann Lee on this subject, and you'll see that its much less straightforward. Northwestern gives four types of scholarship grants above $100K:
1) ED
2) 1-yr Deferred admission to highly qualified k-jd's
3) $120 and 4) $150 Dean's scholarships - these go to exclusively 170+/3.75+, in other words, above BOTH medians (urm's excluded).

LSN is telling you that 67% of those with LSATs over 170 received scholarships. Among those individuals, the mean amount was $110: this is a whole lot of 60Ks and 90Ks, and a small few 150's, many deferred k-jds, skewing the average over 110. Many more of the lower or no scholarship candidates did not report.


Ok, you got me there. Details for the win. Looking at 3.4-3.75 it's only 70k/80%.

One clarification, I haven't been looking at 170+, I've been looking at exactly 170 because the point was about whether Penn could hold a 170 when NU went really hard at it and failed.

So my statement would have to be adjusted to if you got exactly a 170 and 3.75+, NU showed you big-time money (140k/57%). No other school came close (UVA was 90k/89% but that's only after clearing their YP screen). Even after adjusting for higher GPA medians, an exactly 170 and 3.85+ only got you 50k/47% at Penn.

So still, NU really worked the 170 and failed, while Penn doesn't seem to have tried very hard and would assumedly have lost most of those 170s w/ above median GPA to CCN and 170s w/ below median GPA to big schollys at slightly lower ranked schools.

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isuperserial
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby isuperserial » Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:12 am

cotiger wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:Mylsn is a useful tool, but when it comes to scholarship values especially, there's a non-negligible number of people who do not update, or simply dont display their information for that school. At some point in your cycle you may have the opportunity to speak with Johann Lee on this subject, and you'll see that its much less straightforward. Northwestern gives four types of scholarship grants above $100K:
1) ED
2) 1-yr Deferred admission to highly qualified k-jd's
3) $120 and 4) $150 Dean's scholarships - these go to exclusively 170+/3.75+, in other words, above BOTH medians (urm's excluded).

LSN is telling you that 67% of those with LSATs over 170 received scholarships. Among those individuals, the mean amount was $110: this is a whole lot of 60Ks and 90Ks, and a small few 150's, many deferred k-jds, skewing the average over 110. Many more of the lower or no scholarship candidates did not report.


Ok, you got me there. Details for the win. Looking at 3.4-3.75 it's only 70k/80%.

One clarification, I haven't been looking at 170+, I've been looking at exactly 170 because the point was about whether Penn could hold a 170 when NU went really hard at it and failed.

So my statement would have to be adjusted to if you got exactly a 170 and 3.75+, NU showed you big-time money (140k/57%). No other school came close (UVA was 90k/89% but that's only after clearing their YP screen). Even after adjusting for higher GPA medians, an exactly 170 and 3.85+ only got you 50k/47% at Penn.

So still, NU really worked the 170 and failed, while Penn doesn't seem to have tried very hard and would assumedly have lost most of those 170s w/ above median GPA to CCN and 170s w/ below median GPA to big schollys at slightly lower ranked schools.


I respectfully disagree. Penn is an impressive school, and one that I feel has an increasing reputation. Their numbers have been out of this world for more than a little while. I think it would make little sense to say that they have necessarily fallen because they didn't try super hard on scholarships. I think it's far more likely that more applicants have looked at their statistics and outcomes and flocked to Penn, so Penn didn't need to try so hard.

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cotiger
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby cotiger » Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:34 am

isuperserial wrote:I respectfully disagree. Penn is an impressive school, and one that I feel has an increasing reputation. Their numbers have been out of this world for more than a little while. I think it would make little sense to say that they have necessarily fallen because they didn't try super hard on scholarships. I think it's far more likely that more applicants have looked at their statistics and outcomes and flocked to Penn, so Penn didn't need to try so hard.


Certainly possible. We shall see.

CCNP 4 lyfe!

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sinfiery
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby sinfiery » Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:01 pm

Image

Image

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snagglepuss
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby snagglepuss » Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:35 pm

sinfiery wrote:graphs


169 is SOOO HAWT right now.

zq420
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby zq420 » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:03 pm

Chicago (not sure if someone else has posted)

"What is your median LSAT score and GPA?

For the class entering in 2013, the median LSAT score was 170 and median GPA was 3.90, although we have a wide range of LSAT scores and GPAs in our class. Please see our 2013-2014 Profile Card for more details."

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/prospectives/jdfaq/about

04102014
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby 04102014 » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:08 pm

zq420 wrote:Chicago (not sure if someone else has posted)

"What is your median LSAT score and GPA?

For the class entering in 2013, the median LSAT score was 170 and median GPA was 3.90, although we have a wide range of LSAT scores and GPAs in our class. Please see our 2013-2014 Profile Card for more details."

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/prospectives/jdfaq/about


You just made a lot of people very happy.

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cotiger
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby cotiger » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:16 pm

ohpobrecito wrote:
zq420 wrote:Chicago (not sure if someone else has posted)

"What is your median LSAT score and GPA?

For the class entering in 2013, the median LSAT score was 170 and median GPA was 3.90, although we have a wide range of LSAT scores and GPAs in our class. Please see our 2013-2014 Profile Card for more details."

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/prospectives/jdfaq/about


You just made a lot of people very happy.


Quality first post.

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The-Specs
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby The-Specs » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:23 pm

zq420 wrote:Chicago (not sure if someone else has posted)

"What is your median LSAT score and GPA?

For the class entering in 2013, the median LSAT score was 170 and median GPA was 3.90, although we have a wide range of LSAT scores and GPAs in our class. Please see our 2013-2014 Profile Card for more details."

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/prospectives/jdfaq/about


I know that they technically have no connection to each other but if Chicago couldn't maintain its median it makes me believe that Penn couldn't possibly have either.

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MoMettaMonk
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby MoMettaMonk » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:27 pm

zq420 wrote:Chicago (not sure if someone else has posted)

"What is your median LSAT score and GPA?

For the class entering in 2013, the median LSAT score was 170 and median GPA was 3.90, although we have a wide range of LSAT scores and GPAs in our class. Please see our 2013-2014 Profile Card for more details."

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/prospectives/jdfaq/about


That is probably the best first post that I have seen on this site.

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longlivetheking
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby longlivetheking » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:29 pm

MoMettaMonk wrote:
zq420 wrote:Chicago (not sure if someone else has posted)

"What is your median LSAT score and GPA?

For the class entering in 2013, the median LSAT score was 170 and median GPA was 3.90, although we have a wide range of LSAT scores and GPAs in our class. Please see our 2013-2014 Profile Card for more details."

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/prospectives/jdfaq/about


That is probably the best first post that I have seen on this site.


confirmed.

guys, this 13% drop this oct lsat administration. is this going to be THE SINGLE BEST CYCLE OF ALL TIME.

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t-14orbust
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby t-14orbust » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:30 pm

The-Specs wrote:
zq420 wrote:Chicago (not sure if someone else has posted)

"What is your median LSAT score and GPA?

For the class entering in 2013, the median LSAT score was 170 and median GPA was 3.90, although we have a wide range of LSAT scores and GPAs in our class. Please see our 2013-2014 Profile Card for more details."

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/prospectives/jdfaq/about


I know that they technically have no connection to each other but if Chicago couldn't maintain its median it makes me believe that Penn couldn't possibly have either.

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nothingtosee
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby nothingtosee » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:32 pm

zq420 wrote:Chicago (not sure if someone else has posted)

"What is your median LSAT score and GPA?

For the class entering in 2013, the median LSAT score was 170 and median GPA was 3.90, although we have a wide range of LSAT scores and GPAs in our class. Please see our 2013-2014 Profile Card for more details."

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/prospectives/jdfaq/about


Is Chicago moving towards a California style GPA heavy matrix? Would a 3.7/172 be in a better spot with the new numbers, or does it seem like they're shooting to be the "High GPA" member of CCN?

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The-Specs
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby The-Specs » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:34 pm

longlivetheking wrote:
confirmed.

guys, this 13% drop this oct lsat administration. is this going to be THE SINGLE BEST CYCLE OF ALL TIME.


Wait, how do you know there was a 13% drop in this last LSAT administration? I just checked the LSAC website and it hasn't been reported yet.
Last edited by The-Specs on Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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longlivetheking
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby longlivetheking » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:34 pm

nothingtosee wrote:
zq420 wrote:Chicago (not sure if someone else has posted)

"What is your median LSAT score and GPA?

For the class entering in 2013, the median LSAT score was 170 and median GPA was 3.90, although we have a wide range of LSAT scores and GPAs in our class. Please see our 2013-2014 Profile Card for more details."

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/prospectives/jdfaq/about


Is Chicago moving towards a California style GPA heavy matrix? Would a 3.7/172 be in a better spot with the new numbers, or does it seem like they're shooting to be the "High GPA" member of CCN?


i'm not sure how sustainable it is to maintain a high GPA median like 3.9 and still want to have a 170+ LSAT median. berkeley does it because their lsat median is a 167. chicago would have to be seriously competing with every sch from HYS down to P and northwestern ED folks

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longlivetheking
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby longlivetheking » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:35 pm

The-Specs wrote:
longlivetheking wrote:
confirmed.

guys, this 13% drop this oct lsat administration. is this going to be THE SINGLE BEST CYCLE OF ALL TIME.


Wait, how do you know there was a 13% drop this LSAT administration? I just checked the LSAC website and it hasn't been reported yet.



Paul Campos said he has legit source saying its 13% drop this oct lsat administration. its on this board in fact. title of thread is 'FYI'

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t-14orbust
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby t-14orbust » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:42 pm

Really hoping Chicago's drop means I have a good shot at a Ruby

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cotiger
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby cotiger » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:43 pm

longlivetheking wrote:
nothingtosee wrote:Is Chicago moving towards a California style GPA heavy matrix? Would a 3.7/172 be in a better spot with the new numbers, or does it seem like they're shooting to be the "High GPA" member of CCN?


i'm not sure how sustainable it is to maintain a high GPA median like 3.9 and still want to have a 170+ LSAT median. berkeley does it because their lsat median is a 167. chicago would have to be seriously competing with every sch from HYS down to P and northwestern ED folks


UVA and Penn can manage it at only 1 point below UChi, though they have to game like crazy. Chicago should be able to do it without too much difficulty, at least through these next three years of Rubys.

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The-Specs
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby The-Specs » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:48 pm

longlivetheking wrote:
The-Specs wrote:
longlivetheking wrote:
confirmed.

guys, this 13% drop this oct lsat administration. is this going to be THE SINGLE BEST CYCLE OF ALL TIME.


Wait, how do you know there was a 13% drop this LSAT administration? I just checked the LSAC website and it hasn't been reported yet.



Paul Campos said he has legit source saying its 13% drop this oct lsat administration. its on this board in fact. title of thread is 'FYI'


Dang...then by my calculations there were 32,868 LSAT's adminstered in Oct (if it decreased by exactly 13%) and 56,865 this year. That means, if there were no decrease in this cycle's Dec and Feb administrations (which it looks like there will be) we are on track for only 106K LSAT's administered this year.

Extrapolated out that means there will only be ~2755 170+ LSAT scores this year and only ~1049 173's or better (99th percentile).

Splitter value going up?
Last edited by The-Specs on Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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longlivetheking
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby longlivetheking » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:51 pm

The-Specs wrote:
longlivetheking wrote:
The-Specs wrote:
longlivetheking wrote:
confirmed.

guys, this 13% drop this oct lsat administration. is this going to be THE SINGLE BEST CYCLE OF ALL TIME.


Wait, how do you know there was a 13% drop this LSAT administration? I just checked the LSAC website and it hasn't been reported yet.



Paul Campos said he has legit source saying its 13% drop this oct lsat administration. its on this board in fact. title of thread is 'FYI'


Dang...then by my calculations there were 32,868 LSAT's adminstered in Oct (if it decreased by exactly 13%) and 56,865 this year. That means, if there were no decrease in this cycle's Dec and Feb administrations (which it looks like there will be) we are on track for only 106K LSAT's administered this year.

Extrapolated out that means there will only be ~2755 170+ LSAT scores this year and only ~1049 173's or better (99th percentile).

Splitter value is going up?


if splitter value isn't going up this year, i don't know when it will ever.

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The-Specs
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby The-Specs » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:56 pm

longlivetheking wrote:
The-Specs wrote:Dang...then by my calculations there were 32,868 LSAT's adminstered in Oct (if it decreased by exactly 13%) and 56,865 this year. That means, if there were no decrease in this cycle's Dec and Feb administrations (which it looks like there will be) we are on track for only 106K LSAT's administered this year.

Extrapolated out that means there will only be ~2755 170+ LSAT scores this year and only ~1049 173's or better (99th percentile).

Splitter value is going up?


if splitter value isn't going up this year, i don't know when it will ever.


Hahaha fair. With my luck it never will.

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t-14orbust
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby t-14orbust » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:57 pm

The-Specs wrote:
longlivetheking wrote:
The-Specs wrote:Dang...then by my calculations there were 32,868 LSAT's adminstered in Oct (if it decreased by exactly 13%) and 56,865 this year. That means, if there were no decrease in this cycle's Dec and Feb administrations (which it looks like there will be) we are on track for only 106K LSAT's administered this year.

Extrapolated out that means there will only be ~2755 170+ LSAT scores this year and only ~1049 173's or better (99th percentile).

Splitter value is going up?


if splitter value isn't going up this year, i don't know when it will ever.


Hahaha fair. With my luck it never will.


Says the bro that's already in at UVA...lol

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longlivetheking
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby longlivetheking » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:01 pm

just throwing it out there. is it ever possible lsac would exempt the 2 year 3 take rule to increase number of folks to take it?

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The-Specs
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Re: C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size

Postby The-Specs » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:05 pm

t-14orbust wrote:
The-Specs wrote:Hahaha fair. With my luck it never will.


Says the bro that's already in at UVA...lol


Well, UVA was already pretty splitter friendly if you can get past the YP which may be completely done for this year. That being said, your point is well taken. :)




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