Drop in Median LSAT Scores?

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linkx13
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Drop in Median LSAT Scores?

Postby linkx13 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:10 pm

Haven´t seen a new post about this since the below one from 2012. Are we looking at this happening again this cycle?

http://www.constitutionaldaily.com/inde ... aw-schools

Hapalawyer
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Re: Drop in Median LSAT Scores?

Postby Hapalawyer » Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:20 pm

I have seen on TLS that Minn and Illinois are poised for large LSAT dropoffs. Does anyone forsee a T6 school (besides Stanford) dropping to a 170 median?

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phillywc
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Re: Drop in Median LSAT Scores?

Postby phillywc » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:58 pm

You will see more drops all over the place. Hard to predict except in the extreme cases (Minny losing theirs by quite a bit, WUSTL paying to keep theirs)

linkx13
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Re: Drop in Median LSAT Scores?

Postby linkx13 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:15 pm

Interesting. When would we know by?

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SteelPenguin
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Re: Drop in Median LSAT Scores?

Postby SteelPenguin » Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:08 am

linkx13 wrote:Interesting. When would we know by?


I think late August they should be released, once they know the exact makeup of their class.

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AT9
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Re: Drop in Median LSAT Scores?

Postby AT9 » Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:14 am

Drops in the median are good news for me, especially in the 20-30 range :D

Anyone care to guess what Minny's drop will be? I'm always surprised on LSN that a 162-164 with a high GPA (i.e., me) gets you a pretty good shot at a school with, at least in past cycles, a median of 167.

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LSATSCORES2012
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Re: Drop in Median LSAT Scores?

Postby LSATSCORES2012 » Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:07 am

FWIW here are the changes in LSN medians for ACCEPTED (not attending) students as of July 13... I'm downloading the data as of tonight but it will take an hour or so:

BIGGEST LSAT RISE: arkansas-fayetteville, 4
BIGGEST LSAT DROP: illinois, -4

BIGGEST GPA RISE: arkansas-fayetteville, 0.29
BIGGEST GPA DROP: new mexico (-0.3)

Looks like all the T14 had SLIGHT drops except for Penn EDIT AND HARVARD, CAN'T FORGET ABOUT THEM.

[removed, see update below]
Last edited by LSATSCORES2012 on Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:05 am, edited 2 times in total.

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t-14orbust
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Re: Drop in Median LSAT Scores?

Postby t-14orbust » Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:23 am

LSATSCORES2012 wrote:FWIW here are the changes in LSN medians for ACCEPTED (not attending) students as of July 13... I'm downloading the data as of tonight but it will take an hour or so:

BIGGEST LSAT RISE: arkansas-fayetteville, 4
BIGGEST LSAT DROP: illinois, -4

BIGGEST GPA RISE: arkansas-fayetteville, 0.29
BIGGEST GPA DROP: new mexico (-0.3)

Looks like all the T14 had SLIGHT drops except for Penn.


harvard 1 0.01


:?:
Please tell me it's highly unlikely that H's median will go up

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longlivetheking
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Re: Drop in Median LSAT Scores?

Postby longlivetheking » Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:26 am

good to see a sea of red

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LSATSCORES2012
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Re: Drop in Median LSAT Scores?

Postby LSATSCORES2012 » Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:30 am

t-14orbust wrote:
LSATSCORES2012 wrote:FWIW here are the changes in LSN medians for ACCEPTED (not attending) students as of July 13... I'm downloading the data as of tonight but it will take an hour or so:

BIGGEST LSAT RISE: arkansas-fayetteville, 4
BIGGEST LSAT DROP: illinois, -4

BIGGEST GPA RISE: arkansas-fayetteville, 0.29
BIGGEST GPA DROP: new mexico (-0.3)

Looks like all the T14 had SLIGHT drops except for Penn.


harvard 1 0.01


:?:
Please tell me it's highly unlikely that H's median will go up

ooooooops.

i mean... it's LSN... and with the small sample size even one app can change the median. so I wouldn't take this to suggest that it's likely that H's median will go up, at the very least.

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Clearly
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Re: Drop in Median LSAT Scores?

Postby Clearly » Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:03 am

LSATSCORES2012 wrote:
t-14orbust wrote:
LSATSCORES2012 wrote:FWIW here are the changes in LSN medians for ACCEPTED (not attending) students as of July 13... I'm downloading the data as of tonight but it will take an hour or so:

BIGGEST LSAT RISE: arkansas-fayetteville, 4
BIGGEST LSAT DROP: illinois, -4

BIGGEST GPA RISE: arkansas-fayetteville, 0.29
BIGGEST GPA DROP: new mexico (-0.3)

Looks like all the T14 had SLIGHT drops except for Penn.


harvard 1 0.01


:?:
Please tell me it's highly unlikely that H's median will go up

ooooooops.

i mean... it's LSN... and with the small sample size even one app can change the median. so I wouldn't take this to suggest that it's likely that H's median will go up, at the very least.

LSN data are good for a lot of things, but computing medians isn't one of them.

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LSATSCORES2012
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Re: Drop in Median LSAT Scores?

Postby LSATSCORES2012 » Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:08 am

Clearly wrote:LSN data are good for a lot of things, but computing medians isn't one of them.

I agree with you there. It is definitely insightful for changes in medians, though... or at least it was last cycle, and I don't see why it wouldn't be this cycle. Not completely accurate, obviously... but I'd bet it's a decent approximation (because, again, it was last cycle). And if nothing else, it's definitely interesting :)

I removed the data above to replace it with this data as of tonight - biggest drops and rises didn't change:

school lsat gpa
yale -1 0.02
stanford -1 0
harvard 1 0.01
chicago 0 -0.03
columbia 0 -0.02
nyu -1 0
uva -1 -0.03
penn 0 0.04
berkeley -1 -0.01
michigan -1 0.03
duke -1 -0.01
northwestern -1 -0.01
cornell -1 -0.01
gulc -1 0.01
vanderbilt -1 -0.01
texas -1 -0.03
ucla -1 -0.02
usc -1 -0.03
washu -2 0.01
minnesota 0 0.14
gw -2 -0.01
alabama -1 0.01
emory 0 0.01
notredame -1 0.07
indiana -3 0.15
iowa -1 0.03
wl 0 0.06
washington 1 -0.05
arizona 0 -0.06
bu -1 0
unc 1 0.04
bc -1 -0.09
wm -1 -0.06
georgia -2 0.03
wisconsin 0 0.1
osu -1 0.04
wake -1 -0.02
davis 0 -0.09
fordham -1 -0.03
gmu 0 -0.09
maryland -1 0.11
utah -1 -0.03
colorado 0 -0.08
byu -2 -0.1
florida -1 -0.04
illinois -4 0.02
houston 0 -0.05
hastings -1 -0.08
tulane -2 -0.04
smu -1 0.04
fsu -1 -0.02
richmond 1 -0.01
baylor 0 0.07
temple 0 0
american -1 0.07
uconn -2 0.06
kentucky -2 -0.08
cardozo -2 -0.15
tennessee -2 -0.02
nebraska 0 -0.05
pepperdine -1 -0.01
pennstate -3 0.08
setonhall -1 -0.08
denver -1 -0.04
newmexico -3 -0.3
sandiego 0 0.06
oklahoma 0 0.22
nevada -3 0.13
louisville -1 0.04
arkansas-fayetteville 4 0.29
loyola -1 -0.01
chicago-kent -2 0.03
casewestern -1 0.07
missouri 2 0.2
miami 0 0
loyala-chicago -1 -0.04
lsu 1 -0.03
cincinnati -2 -0.01
msu 0 0.02
lewisandclark -2 -0.06
catholic -2 -0.06
brooklyn -3 -0.13
northeastern 0 0.09
rutgers-newark -1 -0.14
kansas 0 -0.1
tulsa 0 -0.09
pitt 1 -0.02
rutgers-camden -1 -0.16
marquette -1 0.11
oregon 0 -0.09
santaclara 0 0.07
syracuse -1 -0.01
indiana-indy -2 0.04
stjohns -1 -0.12

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KevinP
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Re: Drop in Median LSAT Scores?

Postby KevinP » Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:11 am

Weird thing is a non-trivial number of law schools already posted their medians this time last year. Not sure why I can't even find one law school posting thier medians yet.

Also, I think all the applicants this cycle are pretty much in: http://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/data/ ... volume.asp
"Last year at this time, we had 100% of the preliminary final applicant count."

There were 4560 170+ applicants in 2010, whereas there are 2529 170+ applicants this cycle so far. Not to mention a significant percent of 170+ applicants don't enroll (I'll have to pull up the data). Interesting enough, that's pretty close to the number of 170+ applicants needed for the T14 some time back to maintain their class sizes/medians.
Image

Really waiting for the new medians/class sizes.

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LSATSCORES2012
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Re: Drop in Median LSAT Scores?

Postby LSATSCORES2012 » Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:14 am

KevinP wrote:There were 4560 170+ applicants in 2010, whereas there are 2529 170+ applicants this cycle so far. Not to mention a significant percent of 170+ applicants don't enroll (I'll have to pull up the data).

:shock:

linkx13
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Re: Drop in Median LSAT Scores?

Postby linkx13 » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:40 am

KevinP wrote:Weird thing is a non-trivial number of law schools already posted their medians this time last year. Not sure why I can't even find one law school posting thier medians yet.

Also, I think all the applicants this cycle are pretty much in: http://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/data/ ... volume.asp
"Last year at this time, we had 100% of the preliminary final applicant count."

There were 4560 170+ applicants in 2010, whereas there are 2529 170+ applicants this cycle so far. Not to mention a significant percent of 170+ applicants don't enroll (I'll have to pull up the data). Interesting enough, that's pretty close to the number of 170+ applicants needed for the T14 some time back to maintain their class sizes/medians.

Really waiting for the new medians/class sizes.


Exactly, that article was posted in March of last year, yet a new one wasn´t made for this year. I wonder what that means.

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phillywc
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Re: Drop in Median LSAT Scores?

Postby phillywc » Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:44 pm

Arkansas-Fayetville is a RISING STAR. Watch out t-14.

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longlivetheking
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Re: Drop in Median LSAT Scores?

Postby longlivetheking » Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:39 pm

linkx13 wrote:
KevinP wrote:Weird thing is a non-trivial number of law schools already posted their medians this time last year. Not sure why I can't even find one law school posting thier medians yet.

Also, I think all the applicants this cycle are pretty much in: http://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/data/ ... volume.asp
"Last year at this time, we had 100% of the preliminary final applicant count."

There were 4560 170+ applicants in 2010, whereas there are 2529 170+ applicants this cycle so far. Not to mention a significant percent of 170+ applicants don't enroll (I'll have to pull up the data). Interesting enough, that's pretty close to the number of 170+ applicants needed for the T14 some time back to maintain their class sizes/medians.

Really waiting for the new medians/class sizes.


Exactly, that article was posted in March of last year, yet a new one wasn´t made for this year. I wonder what that means.


i smell a conspiracy. perhaps the deans are going batshit crazy as to how to explain -1/-2 drops in lsat? last year nyu and harvard withheld their median lsat scores, only releasing their 25/75th. is this to prevent students from gaming the admissions?

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Lavitz
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Re: Drop in Median LSAT Scores?

Postby Lavitz » Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:36 pm

KevinP wrote:Weird thing is a non-trivial number of law schools already posted their medians this time last year. Not sure why I can't even find one law school posting thier medians yet.

FWIW, I received a PM claiming that Vandy told their students at orientation that they had a 163-167-168 LSAT spread, with similar GPAs to last year. Unverified rumor at this point--maybe a Vandy student can chime in publicly. But if true, this would be a median drop of 2 LSAT points from last year.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: Drop in Median LSAT Scores?

Postby Dr. Dre » Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:13 am


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TripTrip
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Re: Drop in Median LSAT Scores?

Postby TripTrip » Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:25 am

Harvard maintaining medians actually wouldn't surprise me. They've kinda been gunning for numbers candidates. Case in point: I was rejected from CCN, but in at H with 175/4.0.

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cotiger
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Re: Drop in Median LSAT Scores?

Postby cotiger » Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:16 am

TripTrip wrote:Harvard maintaining medians actually wouldn't surprise me. They've kinda been gunning for numbers candidates. Case in point: I was rejected from CCN, but in at H with 175/4.0.


Whoa, how were you straight up rejected at CCN with those numbers? C&F issues?

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Dr. Dre
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Re: Drop in Median LSAT Scores?

Postby Dr. Dre » Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:20 am

cotiger wrote:
TripTrip wrote:Harvard maintaining medians actually wouldn't surprise me. They've kinda been gunning for numbers candidates. Case in point: I was rejected from CCN, but in at H with 175/4.0.


Whoa, how were you straight up rejected at CCN with those numbers? C&F issues?


moar like YIELD PROTECT

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Drop in Median LSAT Scores?

Postby MikeSpivey » Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:56 am

SteelPenguin wrote:
linkx13 wrote:Interesting. When would we know by?


I think late August they should be released, once they know the exact makeup of their class.


Likely more into September, fyi.

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TripTrip
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Re: Drop in Median LSAT Scores?

Postby TripTrip » Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:57 pm

Dr. Dre wrote:
cotiger wrote:
TripTrip wrote:Harvard maintaining medians actually wouldn't surprise me. They've kinda been gunning for numbers candidates. Case in point: I was rejected from CCN, but in at H with 175/4.0.


Whoa, how were you straight up rejected at CCN with those numbers? C&F issues?


moar like YIELD PROTECT

Definitely wasn't C&F; that's spotless for my job. It was partly YP, but also a matter of my educational background. My transcript makes it look like I hopped around community colleges, so unless I get a chance to explain what I was doing, it looks bad.

I know it wasn't entirely YP because I was straight rejected from Yale and Stanford and WL at Harvard until late May.

20141023
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Re: Drop in Median LSAT Scores?

Postby 20141023 » Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:56 pm

.
Last edited by 20141023 on Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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