Applications to T6 only?

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
User avatar
heythatslife
Posts: 897
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:18 pm

Applications to T6 only?

Postby heythatslife » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:01 pm

Is this a stupid thing to do? I just don't feel like applying to a bunch of schools that I wouldn't go to anyway even if I'm accepted. One factor to consider is that since I'm an international, there is a high likelihood that I will end up practicing outside of the US eventually, and the portability of the JD degree diminishes rapidly outside of the T6 as you go down the ranking. So right now, I'm looking at applying to the T6 and maybe Penn thrown in for good measure. I'm wondering if this is too much of a risk, though.

Numbers-wise, I'm 173/4.0 (UG in US).

User avatar
moonman157
Posts: 1039
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:26 pm

Re: Applications to T6 only?

Postby moonman157 » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:07 pm

Unless there's something glaringly wrong with your application, you should be fine at the T6. Your only motivation for applying outside of the T6 would be scholarship negotiations.

User avatar
ArtistOfManliness
Posts: 528
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:56 pm

Re: Applications to T6 only?

Postby ArtistOfManliness » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:21 pm

If you don't care about debt, then I see nothing wrong with it. You are literally a lock for NYU (And less so, Chicago, Columbia, and Harvard - especially if you apply early). Y/S are iffy.

Ti Malice
Posts: 1955
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:55 am

Re: Applications to T6 only?

Postby Ti Malice » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:23 pm

I only applied to five of the T6 plus Berkeley, but I don't think applying in a very limited fashion is the best plan for most high-numbers people. It might not have been a great idea for me either, ignoring the actual results. At the time I applied, I was pretty sure I wouldn't actually attend law school the following fall if I didn't get into YHS, but it's certainly possible that my thinking could have changed.

If a high-numbers domestic applicant would attend CCN, then the smartest play is to apply to the entire T14 to maximize chances of getting huge scholarship money. Even if a domestic applicant were dead-set on attending only a T6 school (not a rational position for domestic applicants, since the lower T14 with a full ride beats the hell out of CCN with small scholarships), she should apply to all T14 schools to cover the possible scenarios where she could use a lower T14 full ride to squeeze a little more money out of CCN.

However, I don't know how any of this applies to you as an international student, because I have no idea how the different T14 schools treat international students in awarding merit scholarships.

09042014
Posts: 18282
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: Applications to T6 only?

Postby 09042014 » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:25 pm

Don't apply to schools you wouldn't go to. But honestly, taking a scholarship at a lower T14 is the better play.

User avatar
ArtistOfManliness
Posts: 528
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:56 pm

Re: Applications to T6 only?

Postby ArtistOfManliness » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:28 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Don't apply to schools you wouldn't go to. But honestly, taking a scholarship at a lower T14 is the better play.


Than going to HLS, where OP has a 90% chance? Especially for international, you gotta be trolling.

User avatar
sinfiery
Posts: 3308
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:55 am

Re: Applications to T6 only?

Postby sinfiery » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:33 pm

Ti Malice wrote:I only applied to five of the T6 plus Berkeley, but I don't think applying in a very limited fashion is the best plan for most high-numbers people. It might not have been a great idea for me either, ignoring the actual results. At the time I applied, I was pretty sure I wouldn't actually attend law school the following fall if I didn't get into YHS, but it's certainly possible that my thinking could have changed.

If a high-numbers domestic applicant would attend CCN, then the smartest play is to apply to the entire T14 to maximize chances of getting huge scholarship money. Even if a domestic applicant were dead-set on attending only a T6 school (not a rational position for domestic applicants, since the lower T14 with a full ride beats the hell out of CCN with small scholarships), she should apply to all T14 schools to cover the possible scenarios where she could use a lower T14 full ride to squeeze a little more money out of CCN.

However, I don't know how any of this applies to you as an international student, because I have no idea how the different T14 schools treat international students in awarding merit scholarships.


Completely agree with this post. HYSCN are actually quite stingy with scholarship money aside from named scholarships (Far from a guarantee) and you definitely want something to help you negotiate if certain scenarios.

I also think that the variance and lack of data for how exactly international applications play out should also get you applying to as much of the T14 as you can.

ArtistOfManliness wrote:
Than going to HLS, where OP has a 90% chance? Especially for international, you gotta be trolling.

Does this really improve ones chances at HLS?
Last edited by sinfiery on Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
Posts: 18282
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: Applications to T6 only?

Postby 09042014 » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:36 pm

ArtistOfManliness wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Don't apply to schools you wouldn't go to. But honestly, taking a scholarship at a lower T14 is the better play.


Than going to HLS, where OP has a 90% chance? Especially for international, you gotta be trolling.


Yea, 150k is a fuckload of money. And internationals are often in more need of money since they can't just get unlimited loans like a citizen can.

User avatar
heythatslife
Posts: 897
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:18 pm

Re: Applications to T6 only?

Postby heythatslife » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:52 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
ArtistOfManliness wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Don't apply to schools you wouldn't go to. But honestly, taking a scholarship at a lower T14 is the better play.


Than going to HLS, where OP has a 90% chance? Especially for international, you gotta be trolling.


Yea, 150k is a fuckload of money. And internationals are often in more need of money since they can't just get unlimited loans like a citizen can.


Getting into HLS would actually solve the loan problem as HLS provides loans to international students through the Harvard University Employee Credit Union without the need for a co-signer. And I should have close to $0 EFC, so I'm hoping for some grant. Well, that's IF I can get in.

I realize 150-200k is a pretty huge amount of money to handle but I'm not particularly debt-averse, either. I had no debt coming out of UG, and I'm more concerned about exit options available to me in my home country or elsewhere internationally after working for a few years in the US and my work visa expires.

But it does look like I should add a few schools in the T14, if only for the purpose of scholly negotiations... I was under the impression, though, that schools consider competing scholarship offers in negotiations only if the other offers in question are from "peer" or higher-ranked schools. So would merit scholarships from lower T14s help me leverage money from a T6?

Ti Malice
Posts: 1955
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:55 am

Re: Applications to T6 only?

Postby Ti Malice » Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:00 am

heythatslife wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
ArtistOfManliness wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Don't apply to schools you wouldn't go to. But honestly, taking a scholarship at a lower T14 is the better play.


Than going to HLS, where OP has a 90% chance? Especially for international, you gotta be trolling.


Yea, 150k is a fuckload of money. And internationals are often in more need of money since they can't just get unlimited loans like a citizen can.


Getting into HLS would actually solve the loan problem as HLS provides loans to international students through the Harvard University Employee Credit Union without the need for a co-signer. And I should have close to $0 EFC, so I'm hoping for some grant. Well, that's IF I can get in.

I realize 150-200k is a pretty huge amount of money to handle but I'm not particularly debt-averse, either. I had no debt coming out of UG, and I'm more concerned about exit options available to me in my home country or elsewhere internationally after working for a few years in the US and my work visa expires.

But it does look like I should add a few schools in the T14, if only for the purpose of scholly negotiations... I was under the impression, though, that schools consider competing scholarship offers in negotiations only if the other offers in question are from "peer" or higher-ranked schools. So would merit scholarships from lower T14s help me leverage money from a T6?


Schools will only consider making equal offers if the scholarship in hand is from at least a peer school. So you obviously can't use a full ride at Michigan or Duke to get a full ride at NYU. But it's possible that you could use a full ride from a lower T14 to get something like an extra $30K out of CCN.

User avatar
ArtistOfManliness
Posts: 528
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:56 pm

Re: Applications to T6 only?

Postby ArtistOfManliness » Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:04 am

sinfiery wrote:

ArtistOfManliness wrote:
Than going to HLS, where OP has a 90% chance? Especially for international, you gotta be trolling.

Does this really improve ones chances at HLS?


My bad, I meant more along the lines of practicing outside of the US. OP said high likelihood of that, and outside the US, Harvard is leaps and bounds ahead of other schools.

User avatar
untar614
Posts: 646
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:01 pm

Re: Applications to T6 only?

Postby untar614 » Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:20 am

If you can get fee waivers, I don't see any reason not to blanket T13. It can always turn up useful for scholarship negotiations, and you never really know for sure what you'll end up with. Just don't be a jerk and withdraw from any place once you're sure you won't go there or get anything useful for negotiating from them (though FYI plenty of ppl have been offered big money off the waitlist)

Lumieres
Posts: 208
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:57 pm

Re: Applications to T6 only?

Postby Lumieres » Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:17 pm

Just blanket the t14 and don't worry about any of the Why X essays.

Just curious, what country?

KingofSplitters55
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun May 13, 2012 7:40 pm

Re: Applications to T6 only?

Postby KingofSplitters55 » Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:31 pm

Just go for the T6 - the other schools aren't worth your time to apply to if you have no interest or purpose in attending them.

User avatar
ArtistOfManliness
Posts: 528
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:56 pm

Re: Applications to T6 only?

Postby ArtistOfManliness » Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:38 pm

Lumieres wrote:Just blanket the t14 and don't worry about any of the Why X essays.

Just curious, what country?


Don't waste the $1K... go to a strip club instead and make it rain!

Ti Malice
Posts: 1955
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:55 am

Re: Applications to T6 only?

Postby Ti Malice » Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:46 pm

KingofSplitters55 wrote:Just go for the T6 - the other schools aren't worth your time to apply to if you have no interest or purpose in attending them.


Again, bad advice.

Get fee waivers and blanket the T14. Even if you don't plan to attend certain schools, they might offer you scholarships that you can use as leverage with your favored schools.

User avatar
ArtistOfManliness
Posts: 528
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:56 pm

Re: Applications to T6 only?

Postby ArtistOfManliness » Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:49 pm

Ti Malice wrote:
KingofSplitters55 wrote:Just go for the T6 - the other schools aren't worth your time to apply to if you have no interest or purpose in attending them.


Again, bad advice.

Get fee waivers and blanket the T14. Even if you don't plan to attend certain schools, they might offer you scholarships that you can use as leverage with your favored schools.


HYS (aka his target schools) are not gonna give a damn about his scholarships. It's wasted money. If he doesn't get into HYS, he should revamp his app and try again since his numbers make him a shoe-in at HLS so long as he isn't a functional idiot during the interview

Ti Malice
Posts: 1955
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:55 am

Re: Applications to T6 only?

Postby Ti Malice » Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:35 pm

ArtistOfManliness wrote:
Ti Malice wrote:
KingofSplitters55 wrote:Just go for the T6 - the other schools aren't worth your time to apply to if you have no interest or purpose in attending them.


Again, bad advice.

Get fee waivers and blanket the T14. Even if you don't plan to attend certain schools, they might offer you scholarships that you can use as leverage with your favored schools.


HYS (aka his target schools) are not gonna give a damn about his scholarships. It's wasted money. If he doesn't get into HYS, he should revamp his app and try again since his numbers make him a shoe-in at HLS so long as he isn't a functional idiot during the interview


I go to YHS. I know how their scholarships work.

It's not wasted money because he's also open to attending CCN. App fees after fee waivers for the remaining schools (perhaps minus stingy Berkeley and GULC) amount to chump change. It's very cheap insurance for a scenario that's unlikely but far from unheard of. He's very likely to get H, but people on this site have been rejected with better numbers in the last two cycles (despite having other terrific offers). And no set of numbers guarantees the large scholarships from CCN. If OP misses H and doesn't get one of the large CCN scholarships, he could still wind up with a Levy, Darrow, Mordecai, etc. Members of this site have used these before to squeeze nice sums of money out of CCN.

Revamping the app and reapplying may be the smart move in such an unlucky scenario, but (1) many choose not to; (2) a previous rejection from YHS is a negative for a second application; and, (3) as an international student, waiting a year might be less practical/feasible for OP than for a domestic applicant.

User avatar
ArtistOfManliness
Posts: 528
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:56 pm

Re: Applications to T6 only?

Postby ArtistOfManliness » Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:39 pm

Ti Malice wrote:I go to YHS. I know how their scholarships work.

It's not wasted money because he's also open to attending CCN. App fees after fee waivers for the remaining schools (perhaps minus stingy Berkeley and GULC) amount to chump change. It's very cheap insurance for a scenario that's unlikely but far from unheard of. He's very likely to get H, but people on this site have been rejected with better numbers in the last two cycles (despite having other terrific offers). And no set of numbers guarantees the large scholarships from CCN. If OP misses H and doesn't get one of the large CCN scholarships, he could still wind up with a Levy, Darrow, Mordecai, etc. Members of this site have used these before to squeeze nice sums of money out of CCN.

Revamping the app and reapplying may be the smart move in such an unlucky scenario, but (1) many choose not to; (2) a previous rejection from YHS is a negative for a second application; and, (3) as an international student, waiting a year might be less practical/feasible for OP than for a domestic applicant.


Shit son, didn't mean to offend your prestigious ass. We all know you go to the "Y" of "YHS" because you're one of like three people on TLS that call it "YHS."

But fair enough... if he is really risk adverse, he should blanket the T14.

Ti Malice
Posts: 1955
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:55 am

Re: Applications to T6 only?

Postby Ti Malice » Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:08 pm

My prestigious posterior is unoffended. And you should give me more credit on the "YHS" front -- I've done my part to make it quite a bit more common than that around here these days. It's "YSH" that hasn't gotten off the ground.

User avatar
ArtistOfManliness
Posts: 528
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:56 pm

Re: Applications to T6 only?

Postby ArtistOfManliness » Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:11 pm

Ti Malice wrote:My prestigious posterior is unoffended. And you should give me more credit on the "YHS" front -- I've done my part to make it quite a bit more common than that around here these days. It's "YSH" that hasn't gotten off the ground.


Hahaha I'd be down with a YSH... it just doesn't sound that official cuz it can be pronounced "ish"

That being said, I too shall stop using HYS... might even go for YSCH

User avatar
Tiago Splitter
Posts: 15487
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:20 am

Re: Applications to T6 only?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:08 pm

Is NYU more prestigious internationally than all of the lower T-14? Serious question.

User avatar
ArtistOfManliness
Posts: 528
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:56 pm

Re: Applications to T6 only?

Postby ArtistOfManliness » Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:03 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:Is NYU more prestigious internationally than all of the lower T-14? Serious question.


I think Berkeley might beat it...

GJWheeler
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:20 pm

Re: Applications to T6 only?

Postby GJWheeler » Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:22 am

I'd assume you can get fee waivers and apply to the T10 just to be safe4

User avatar
sinfiery
Posts: 3308
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:55 am

Re: Applications to T6 only?

Postby sinfiery » Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:40 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:Is NYU more prestigious internationally than all of the lower T-14? Serious question.

Lay prestige wise, not likely. But as far as jobs are concerned (self selection need be accounted for)

Employed in a foreign country:
CLS: 14/469
Cornell: 3/190
Duke: 5/225
Harvard: 19/590
NYU: 8/482
UCB: 6/312
UVA: 6/364
Penn: 5/270
NU: 4/268
UChi: 3/215
Gtown: 13/626
Yale: 8/222
SLS: 5/181

No real major distinctions, maybe one could argue HYCLS but self selection basically makes the difference in the data meaningless

But #1 on that international ranking specialty is...NYU :lol: :lol: 8)
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... w-rankings




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider] and 5 guests