Easy Major v. Marketable Major for Law?

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Azariel
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Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:50 pm

Re: Easy Major v. Marketable Major for Law?

Postby Azariel » Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:51 pm

kappycaft1 wrote:
Azariel wrote:a lot of employers will look more favorably on a B in courses like corporate finance or derivatives than on As in econ classes that are more theory-oriented

I am not sure how employers would know what grades you got in what classes unless you gave them your transcript, which I have never heard of before. (Even law schools won't really care about the difficulty of the individual courses as much as they will your overall GPA.)


Fair enough. I should have clarified: it's not that the employers are necessarily seeing all the relevant, specific transcript information, but, from my understanding, most seniors/recent grads in that field include their GPAs and relevant coursework, and so the employers will see some of the results from grades and course choices. From what I have heard (and again, I wasn't ever really into the finance/accting route so this is mostly secondhand), employers are often happier to see mediocre grades and coursework (& internships etc) that represent skills directly applicable to their field than they are to see good grades and coursework that doesn't develop directly applicable skills. The individual grades don't matter; it's the resume, CL, and selling points you can get from them.

Sorry if that was confusing; I definitely worded it very poorly. (And again, this is only what I've heard from friends and acquaintances - you might know better than I.)

20141023
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Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:17 am

Re: Easy Major v. Marketable Major for Law?

Postby 20141023 » Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:28 pm

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Last edited by 20141023 on Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AfricanGal
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Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:43 pm

Re: Easy Major v. Marketable Major for Law?

Postby AfricanGal » Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:57 pm

Azariel wrote:
AfricanGal wrote:I know a handful of graduating seniors who are going off to work at JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs. Others going off into consulting, straight to grad or business school, and some with some prestigious internships related to economics at my school. The Econ program has a lot of networking, prestige, and rigor, and I know for a fact that if I did well it could lead to a good career out of undergrad. Part of my wanting to attempt econ is that my mom also works in the business industry (works for citigroup) and she's always saying how it'd be a good career choice for me.

There really isn't anything "marketable" that I have a talent or passion for and because I attend a LAC there isn't Computer Science, IT, business, accounting majors.

My gpa is my main concern, it's a 2.3 atm


Assuming you don't overload or anything and the highest grade possible is a 4.0, the highest you can get your average up to is a 3.58. And that's if you're *perfect* from here on out.

Your school sounds a lot like my alma mater. I majored in both philosophy and econ, so I sort of understand some of the benefits and disadvantages of each, though obviously it's somewhat different at every school. Econ is not a golden ticket by any means - it certainly wasn't for me - but it can be a lot easier to find a job - or at least interviews - post-grad than from philosophy, even if you receive a much lower GPA in Econ than you would have in philosophy. Too, the courses you take and your extra-curricular activities can greatly impact your employability - a lot of employers will look more favorably on a B in courses like corporate finance or derivatives than on As in econ classes that are more theory-oriented. Internships help, as do connections. Honestly, in my experience, connections are one of the biggest factors of success, and if you already have a family member in the field you want to go into, that can be a major help. (A lot of people I knew in college got internships, even at big names like JP Morgan, because of a parent/family member or family friend...). If you want to do consulting, especially if you want to go to one of the big names like BCG or Bain, you'll want to get your GPA up and start practicing cases now. In my experience, the big ones had GPA floors for the first interview, but the people who got past that interview stage were all the ones who had been practicing the cases since sophomore year, or had had an internship with the company the summer before senior year. (Some might have special diversity programs that might be to your benefit and help you skirt the GPA issue - I'd research more about that if you're interested in consulting because it might make things completely different from what I'm saying.) Consulting can be a very good field to go into in that it's a good launching pad for all sorts of careers - and some of the big ones will pay for your graduate education (usually MBAs).

Ultimately I wouldn't do law school, unless you're either a born 180 or really, really set on being a lawyer and 100% willing to do the work it'll take. Talk to your friends who have found good jobs and investigate what sort of connections your econ department actually has - because, believe me, things can seem very rosy when graduation's years away and the job pressure isn't as strong. If I were you, knowing what I do from my experiences, I would choose to focus on either accounting or finance (even if it's just an econ major, I'm SURE there are courses in those areas), probably accounting, as you say you are not as strong with the quantitative aspects. If both of these careers seem utterly soul-killing and unappealing to you, I would strongly consider another major - if you can't find one that'll give you a decent chance of employment, transfer. It's harsh, but unless you have some serious family connections you can fall back on, you have to look at college like an investment. If you're not getting the ROI, especially if you have any debt, you're screwed. And don't major in philosophy unless you're absolutely sure that you want to do law or some form of further education. I found it very valuable in a lot of ways (yes, even for taking the LSAT), but unfortunately a lot of people, including employers, are too thick to see its value.

(Also: there are a good handful of people on here who've gone into finance-y careers (e.g. i-banking) so they will probably have much better information and advice in that regard.)


You wouldn't happen to know what gpa would be necessary for ibanking out of undergrad would you? I'm not sure if the banking industry has any diversity hiring but would being a urm help my chances?

AfricanGal
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:43 pm

Re: Easy Major v. Marketable Major for Law?

Postby AfricanGal » Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:00 pm

kappycaft1 wrote:
Azariel wrote:a lot of employers will look more favorably on a B in courses like corporate finance or derivatives than on As in econ classes that are more theory-oriented

I am not sure how employers would know what grades you got in what classes unless you gave them your transcript, which I have never heard of before. (Even law schools won't really care about the difficulty of the individual courses as much as they will your overall GPA.)

Also, ouch on the 2.3........... that is low enough to nullify the female URM boost at the T14. :cry: You need to pull that GPA to have a shot at anything decent (whether law school or employment) after graduation.


I realize that. I'm certain dropping all my commitments and not working part-time this year will certainly boost my gpa. My goal is a 3.4ish by end Junior year which I think would be good enough for T-14/T-6 and perhaps for I-banking, assuming I major in Econ.

gunner3
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Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:58 pm

Re: Easy Major v. Marketable Major for Law?

Postby gunner3 » Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:15 pm

I faced this similar decision. I have wanted to go to law school since 6th grade. It's all I ever wanted to do. When I was picking a major I made the choice to do something practical in case law school didn't work out. I majored in finance with the intentions of going to law school but when the time came, the LSAT didn't pan out the way I wanted. I just started a job on Wall St. at a BB ibank. Things don't always work out the way you think so be careful if you put all your eggs in the law school basket.

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Gunnar Stahl
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Re: Easy Major v. Marketable Major for Law?

Postby Gunnar Stahl » Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:33 pm

Azariel wrote:Assuming you don't overload or anything and the highest grade possible is a 4.0, the highest you can get your average up to is a 3.58. And that's if you're *perfect* from here on out.

Your school sounds a lot like my alma mater. I majored in both philosophy and econ, so I sort of understand some of the benefits and disadvantages of each, though obviously it's somewhat different at every school. Econ is not a golden ticket by any means - it certainly wasn't for me - but it can be a lot easier to find a job - or at least interviews - post-grad than from philosophy, even if you receive a much lower GPA in Econ than you would have in philosophy. Too, the courses you take and your extra-curricular activities can greatly impact your employability - a lot of employers will look more favorably on a B in courses like corporate finance or derivatives than on As in econ classes that are more theory-oriented. Internships help, as do connections. Honestly, in my experience, connections are one of the biggest factors of success, and if you already have a family member in the field you want to go into, that can be a major help. (A lot of people I knew in college got internships, even at big names like JP Morgan, because of a parent/family member or family friend...). If you want to do consulting, especially if you want to go to one of the big names like BCG or Bain, you'll want to get your GPA up and start practicing cases now. In my experience, the big ones had GPA floors for the first interview, but the people who got past that interview stage were all the ones who had been practicing the cases since sophomore year, or had had an internship with the company the summer before senior year. (Some might have special diversity programs that might be to your benefit and help you skirt the GPA issue - I'd research more about that if you're interested in consulting because it might make things completely different from what I'm saying.) Consulting can be a very good field to go into in that it's a good launching pad for all sorts of careers - and some of the big ones will pay for your graduate education (usually MBAs).

Ultimately I wouldn't do law school, unless you're either a born 180 or really, really set on being a lawyer and 100% willing to do the work it'll take. Talk to your friends who have found good jobs and investigate what sort of connections your econ department actually has - because, believe me, things can seem very rosy when graduation's years away and the job pressure isn't as strong. If I were you, knowing what I do from my experiences, I would choose to focus on either accounting or finance (even if it's just an econ major, I'm SURE there are courses in those areas), probably accounting, as you say you are not as strong with the quantitative aspects. If both of these careers seem utterly soul-killing and unappealing to you, I would strongly consider another major - if you can't find one that'll give you a decent chance of employment, transfer. It's harsh, but unless you have some serious family connections you can fall back on, you have to look at college like an investment. If you're not getting the ROI, especially if you have any debt, you're screwed. And don't major in philosophy unless you're absolutely sure that you want to do law or some form of further education. I found it very valuable in a lot of ways (yes, even for taking the LSAT), but unfortunately a lot of people, including employers, are too thick to see its value.

I agree with all of this. I know a few people that majored in econ at one of the top undergrad econ schools in the country, and they were really on their own as far as finding jobs. At the same time, this school has a very good undergrad b-school, so that certainly doesn't help the econ kids. I know a couple managed to network into F500 finance jobs or small investment banks. A lot end up applying to law school because they can't find jobs.

AfricanGal wrote:You wouldn't happen to know what gpa would be necessary for ibanking out of undergrad would you? I'm not sure if the banking industry has any diversity hiring but would being a urm help my chances?

Do banks recruit at your school? My (limited) understanding is that if banks don't actually recruit at your school then you need a really high GPA and connections (which it looks like you have) to get in. I would also make sure you really are interested in banking, as well. 100+ hour weeks for 2 years isn't something to go into without making sure you want to do that.

How good of liberal arts college are we talking here? Like Amherst/Williams, or something else?

Also, try looking around on this site:

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums

AfricanGal
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:43 pm

Re: Easy Major v. Marketable Major for Law?

Postby AfricanGal » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:02 am

Ghost93 wrote:
Azariel wrote:Assuming you don't overload or anything and the highest grade possible is a 4.0, the highest you can get your average up to is a 3.58. And that's if you're *perfect* from here on out.

Your school sounds a lot like my alma mater. I majored in both philosophy and econ, so I sort of understand some of the benefits and disadvantages of each, though obviously it's somewhat different at every school. Econ is not a golden ticket by any means - it certainly wasn't for me - but it can be a lot easier to find a job - or at least interviews - post-grad than from philosophy, even if you receive a much lower GPA in Econ than you would have in philosophy. Too, the courses you take and your extra-curricular activities can greatly impact your employability - a lot of employers will look more favorably on a B in courses like corporate finance or derivatives than on As in econ classes that are more theory-oriented. Internships help, as do connections. Honestly, in my experience, connections are one of the biggest factors of success, and if you already have a family member in the field you want to go into, that can be a major help. (A lot of people I knew in college got internships, even at big names like JP Morgan, because of a parent/family member or family friend...). If you want to do consulting, especially if you want to go to one of the big names like BCG or Bain, you'll want to get your GPA up and start practicing cases now. In my experience, the big ones had GPA floors for the first interview, but the people who got past that interview stage were all the ones who had been practicing the cases since sophomore year, or had had an internship with the company the summer before senior year. (Some might have special diversity programs that might be to your benefit and help you skirt the GPA issue - I'd research more about that if you're interested in consulting because it might make things completely different from what I'm saying.) Consulting can be a very good field to go into in that it's a good launching pad for all sorts of careers - and some of the big ones will pay for your graduate education (usually MBAs).

Ultimately I wouldn't do law school, unless you're either a born 180 or really, really set on being a lawyer and 100% willing to do the work it'll take. Talk to your friends who have found good jobs and investigate what sort of connections your econ department actually has - because, believe me, things can seem very rosy when graduation's years away and the job pressure isn't as strong. If I were you, knowing what I do from my experiences, I would choose to focus on either accounting or finance (even if it's just an econ major, I'm SURE there are courses in those areas), probably accounting, as you say you are not as strong with the quantitative aspects. If both of these careers seem utterly soul-killing and unappealing to you, I would strongly consider another major - if you can't find one that'll give you a decent chance of employment, transfer. It's harsh, but unless you have some serious family connections you can fall back on, you have to look at college like an investment. If you're not getting the ROI, especially if you have any debt, you're screwed. And don't major in philosophy unless you're absolutely sure that you want to do law or some form of further education. I found it very valuable in a lot of ways (yes, even for taking the LSAT), but unfortunately a lot of people, including employers, are too thick to see its value.

I agree with all of this. I know a few people that majored in econ at one of the top undergrad econ schools in the country, and they were really on their own as far as finding jobs. At the same time, this school has a very good undergrad b-school, so that certainly doesn't help the econ kids. I know a couple managed to network into F500 finance jobs or small investment banks. A lot end up applying to law school because they can't find jobs.

AfricanGal wrote:You wouldn't happen to know what gpa would be necessary for ibanking out of undergrad would you? I'm not sure if the banking industry has any diversity hiring but would being a urm help my chances?

Do banks recruit at your school? My (limited) understanding is that if banks don't actually recruit at your school then you need a really high GPA and connections (which it looks like you have) to get in. I would also make sure you really are interested in banking, as well. 100+ hour weeks for 2 years isn't something to go into without making sure you want to do that.

How good of liberal arts college are we talking here? Like Amherst/Williams, or something else?

Also, try looking around on this site:

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums


I'm not entirely sure if banks recruit at my school, only that a handful of students have snagged jobs at top banks. My LAC isn't Williams caliber, but it is Top 20.




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