How big a deal is C&F?

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t-14orbust
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How big a deal is C&F?

Postby t-14orbust » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:47 pm

Are C&F issues only considered insofar that they might affect bar admission? Or are they a negative soft even if they are minor and highly unlikely to affect admission to the bar? Sorry if this has been addressed before, I couldn't find anything too reliable by search.

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Bikeflip
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Re: How big a deal is C&F?

Postby Bikeflip » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:51 pm

What'd you do?

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t-14orbust
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Re: How big a deal is C&F?

Postby t-14orbust » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:53 pm

No convictions or felony charges. I don't want to post it here for privacy reasons, but if you think you can evaluate it well I can PM you.

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laxbrah420
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Re: How big a deal is C&F?

Postby laxbrah420 » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:54 pm

Nobody can evaluate it well. Just apply.

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guano
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Re: How big a deal is C&F?

Postby guano » Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:08 pm

t-14orbust wrote:Are C&F issues only considered insofar that they might affect bar admission? Or are they a negative soft even if they are minor and highly unlikely to affect admission to the bar? Sorry if this has been addressed before, I couldn't find anything too reliable by search.

If its highly unlikely to affect admission to the bar it's highly unlikely to have a significant impact on admissions

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Clearly
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Re: How big a deal is C&F?

Postby Clearly » Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:13 pm

guano wrote:
t-14orbust wrote:Are C&F issues only considered insofar that they might affect bar admission? Or are they a negative soft even if they are minor and highly unlikely to affect admission to the bar? Sorry if this has been addressed before, I couldn't find anything too reliable by search.

If its highly unlikely to affect admission to the bar it's highly unlikely to have a significant impact on admissions

Strong Disagree.

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reasonable_man
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Re: How big a deal is C&F?

Postby reasonable_man » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:14 am

Offenses that demonstrate "moral turpitude" or more serious offenses (felony or borderline felony conduct) are the sort of offenses that will be problematic (both from an admissions standpoint to LS and the Bar). But since you won't give any information about the type of offense (for what reason I cannot imagine), there is no way anyone can possibly know the answer to your question.

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twenty
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Re: How big a deal is C&F?

Postby twenty » Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:48 am

You got arrested for vandalism when you were 16/you rode on your friends' bike handles/you were drinking in public = not a big deal if you come clean with it on your apps.

You beat up a teacher a year ago/cheated on an exam and got expelled/went to jail for point-shaving or something = big effing deal, get some serious time in between now and law school.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: How big a deal is C&F?

Postby Dr. Dre » Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:12 am

GPA/LSAT/URM status

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szb5058
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Re: How big a deal is C&F?

Postby szb5058 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:27 am

to my understanding, law schools care mostly about issues that test your moral and ethical standing. as a future lawyer, you'll be held to a higher moral and ethical standing because you will be charged with representing the law.

issues that arise on your C&F that revolve around lying (i.e. fraud, lying under oath, any felonies, etc.) will hurt you during admissions MUCH MORE than issues that were one time incidents (i.e. under age drinking, marijuana, bar fight, etc.)

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t-14orbust
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Re: How big a deal is C&F?

Postby t-14orbust » Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:36 am

Thanks guys, szb5058 and twentypercentmore's posts have me feeling a little relieved. Should have just smoked wid cigawettes instead of doing hoodrat stuff with my fwends.

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Clearly
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Re: How big a deal is C&F?

Postby Clearly » Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:46 am

I disagree with how uniformly people are applying judgement on the issue, it varies by school and even adcomm reviewing it... the bar has its own lax standard, but remember that schools are still worried about you as a representation of the school, outside your ability to pass the bar. Could a recent dui pass the bar? likely. Could you wrap your car around someone drunk while wearing a school hoodie?...
If you have a drug arrest and your adcomm experimented or is anti prohibition then great.. if your adcomm was recently robbed by a junkie, that's bad..etc.
I'm sure it also has to do with how competitive the applicant pool is, if your offense was old, and your numbers competitive you'll be fine, but if there are other applicants with the same numbers and no arrests, I'd be nervous.

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szb5058
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Re: How big a deal is C&F?

Postby szb5058 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:47 am

t-14orbust wrote:Thanks guys, szb5058 and twentypercentmore's posts have me feeling a little relieved. Should have just smoked wid cigawettes instead of doing hoodrat stuff with my fwends.


its all good man, just stay positive!

and if you do need to write an addendum, definitely check out this article http://lawschooladvice.com/how-to-write ... -addendum/

fantastic stuff on how to write an addendum, when you should and shouldn't write one, tips, and sample addenda. definitely suggest taking a look, considering your law school addendum could absolutely affect your chances of admission

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Dr. Dre
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Re: How big a deal is C&F?

Postby Dr. Dre » Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:47 am

OP just be above both medians , and if possible above 75th percentile

also, are you URM?

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t-14orbust
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Re: How big a deal is C&F?

Postby t-14orbust » Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:54 am

No, I am not an URM. GPA is >75%th and LSAT is >50%th, I just wanted to know how much these relatively old and minor incidents might affect me. So far it's looking like it won't be too bad. Do you guys know about how many people on average have to write C&F addendums?

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StillIll
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Re: How big a deal is C&F?

Postby StillIll » Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:40 pm

szb5058 wrote:issues that arise on your C&F that revolve around lying (i.e. fraud, lying under oath, any felonies, etc.) will hurt you during admissions MUCH MORE than issues that were one time incidents (i.e. under age drinking, marijuana, bar fight, etc.)


What about in Arizona where marijuana arrests are felonies lolz

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Ludo!
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Re: How big a deal is C&F?

Postby Ludo! » Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:50 pm

Clearlynotstefan wrote:I disagree with how uniformly people are applying judgement on the issue, it varies by school and even adcomm reviewing it... the bar has its own lax standard, but remember that schools are still worried about you as a representation of the school, outside your ability to pass the bar. Could a recent dui pass the bar? likely. Could you wrap your car around someone drunk while wearing a school hoodie?...
If you have a drug arrest and your adcomm experimented or is anti prohibition then great.. if your adcomm was recently robbed by a junkie, that's bad..etc.
I'm sure it also has to do with how competitive the applicant pool is, if your offense was old, and your numbers competitive you'll be fine, but if there are other applicants with the same numbers and no arrests, I'd be nervous.


The fuck is this shit

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: How big a deal is C&F?

Postby TheSpanishMain » Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:02 am

Hey, wondering if this is even worth bringing up in a C&F statement. The prompt asked if I'd ever been subject to a disciplinary action at school. During my freshman year of college (ten years ago) I was caught drinking by the RA, who made us pour the booze down the drain. Since it was two cases of PBR, this was a loss of approximately eight dollars. A few days later I got a letter from the hall manager person, which basically said, "Don't do that again." Nothing else ever came of it. Worth bringing up or too trivial/nitpicky?

Here's what I drafted for a response, if I need one:

During my freshman year at X State University, several friends and I were caught consuming alcohol by the dormitory resident advisor. As we were under the legal drinking age, we were instructed to dispose of the alcohol. There was no police involvement. Several days later, I received a warning letter from the dormitory manager, reminding me of the policy prohibiting underage drinking. Following this incident, I was not subject to any disciplinary action of any kind during my undergraduate career.

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szb5058
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Re: How big a deal is C&F?

Postby szb5058 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:10 am

I mean the standard rule is that if you think you may have to disclose it, you probably should. However, in your case, no real disciplinary action was taken. Personally, I probably wouldn't disclose it simply because I don't know that it fits within the parameters of the question. However, if you did disclose it, there's close to a 0% chance that it would have any affect on your admission status. If law schools kept every college kid out who's ever been caught drinking on campus, application numbers would plummet. Either way, you're totally fine. Know go crack open a beer and relax a bit :wink:

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: How big a deal is C&F?

Postby TheSpanishMain » Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:00 am

Yeah, I mean, I was never really worried that it would torpedo my application. It was ten years ago, and I have an otherwise spotless school/professional record. I was more wondering if it's even worth including. I don't want to make a mountain out of a molehill with this stupid, forgettable "offense", but I also don't want to accused of trying to conceal it if it's buried somewhere in my UG file.

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nickb285
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Re: How big a deal is C&F?

Postby nickb285 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:11 am

I would just disclose. The only way that it could possibly hurt you in the slightest is if it's on file somewhere and you don't report. You might as well just write a couple sentences saying it happened.

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Clearly
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Re: How big a deal is C&F?

Postby Clearly » Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:39 pm

I actually wouldn't disclose unless the description of the question clearly indicates you are required to. Take any good reason not to have to write an addendum as far as I'm concerned. That said, if you are clearly required to, always play it safe and disclose even if you could get away with it.

seawulf
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Re: How big a deal is C&F?

Postby seawulf » Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:50 pm

I think it's really interesting that you ask this question, because last year several of the deans (Penn, Michigan, Chicago) came to our school and discussed this issue with us. They presented us with sample applications, and the consensus was that those who shirked off responsibility, tried to blame others, or seemed to be avoiding full disclosure were looked at very negatively. By contrast, those who took full responsiblity and made it clear that it was a one-time thing that they regret were seen much more favorably.

jdmonkey
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Re: How big a deal is C&F?

Postby jdmonkey » Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:49 am

TheSpanishMain wrote:Hey, wondering if this is even worth bringing up in a C&F statement. The prompt asked if I'd ever been subject to a disciplinary action at school. During my freshman year of college (ten years ago) I was caught drinking by the RA, who made us pour the booze down the drain. Since it was two cases of PBR, this was a loss of approximately eight dollars. A few days later I got a letter from the hall manager person, which basically said, "Don't do that again." Nothing else ever came of it. Worth bringing up or too trivial/nitpicky?

Here's what I drafted for a response, if I need one:

During my freshman year at X State University, several friends and I were caught consuming alcohol by the dormitory resident advisor. As we were under the legal drinking age, we were instructed to dispose of the alcohol. There was no police involvement. Several days later, I received a warning letter from the dormitory manager, reminding me of the policy prohibiting underage drinking. Following this incident, I was not subject to any disciplinary action of any kind during my undergraduate career.


Also keep in mind that the drinking age was 18 when many of the admissions officers were in college. Many baby boomers don't view this as serious at all.

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lawschoolwoohoo
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Re: How big a deal is C&F?

Postby lawschoolwoohoo » Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:14 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:Hey, wondering if this is even worth bringing up in a C&F statement. The prompt asked if I'd ever been subject to a disciplinary action at school. During my freshman year of college (ten years ago) I was caught drinking by the RA, who made us pour the booze down the drain. Since it was two cases of PBR, this was a loss of approximately eight dollars. A few days later I got a letter from the hall manager person, which basically said, "Don't do that again." Nothing else ever came of it. Worth bringing up or too trivial/nitpicky?

Here's what I drafted for a response, if I need one:

During my freshman year at X State University, several friends and I were caught consuming alcohol by the dormitory resident advisor. As we were under the legal drinking age, we were instructed to dispose of the alcohol. There was no police involvement. Several days later, I received a warning letter from the dormitory manager, reminding me of the policy prohibiting underage drinking. Following this incident, I was not subject to any disciplinary action of any kind during my undergraduate career.



Same thing happened to me my freshman year more or less except I got an email from the like "alcohol health services" or whatever on campus and never got in trouble again. I disclosed and pretty much said "this incident made me aware of the possible consequences of underage drinking. I regret my youthful mistakes and learned from the incident." Didnt seem to affect my apps at all. I had a predictable cycle, with the exception of a rejection from a school at which I was a legacy (but that was probably way more due to choosing a somewhat controversial personal statement topic for that school than my alcohol violation the first month of my freshman year in college lol)




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