+1, +2, +3, +4

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
User avatar
francesfarmer
Posts: 1409
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:52 am

Re: +1, +2, +3, +4

Postby francesfarmer » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:41 pm

Nobody is going to care that you started a business. 3.5/170/started a business <<<<<< 3.5/171/didn't start a business.

User avatar
Nova
Posts: 9116
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:55 pm

Re: +1, +2, +3, +4

Postby Nova » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:44 pm

francesfarmer wrote:You are not a splitter (because that indicates you have a high LSAT, which you do not), but splitters/folks with low GPAs don't tend to get too much scholarship money.


UMN/WUSTL and many schools ranked lower give good money to splitters. Expect sticker at T18.

(assuming OP scores higher)

User avatar
francesfarmer
Posts: 1409
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:52 am

Re: +1, +2, +3, +4

Postby francesfarmer » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:45 pm

Nova wrote:
francesfarmer wrote:You are not a splitter (because that indicates you have a high LSAT, which you do not), but splitters/folks with low GPAs don't tend to get too much scholarship money.


UMN/WUSTL and many schools ranked lower give good money to splitters. Expect sticker at T18.

(assuming OP scores higher)

OP has a 2.4. He ain't getting money from UMN/WUSTL.

User avatar
raferna3
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:04 am

Re: +1, +2, +3, +4

Postby raferna3 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:51 pm

francesfarmer wrote:
Nova wrote:
francesfarmer wrote:You are not a splitter (because that indicates you have a high LSAT, which you do not), but splitters/folks with low GPAs don't tend to get too much scholarship money.


UMN/WUSTL and many schools ranked lower give good money to splitters. Expect sticker at T18.

(assuming OP scores higher)

OP has a 2.4. He ain't getting money from UMN/WUSTL.


I think you missed the sarcasm in my "optimistic," post.

That being said:

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/AlwaysSplit8s
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/bananasplit19
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/d1verge
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/pammie0415

Lots of other, but point proven...

Also, as a business owner, I am not really all that concerned about the financials. I am not a moron. I would LOVE to go for free, or close to it. But it isnt necessarily a make or break deal for me. I just want to get into the best school I can and make the best of my situation.

I know it doesnt matter, but I do have a 3.8ish the last 3 years. Has to count for SOMETHING.

User avatar
MikeSpivey
Posts: 2607
Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 4:28 pm

Re: +1, +2, +3, +4

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:52 pm

Yep even the LSAT boost depends on other factors, likely compresses at the top, and certainly compresses for scholarship. Which, again, is why no admissions office tends to ever touch this except perhaps Baylor circa 2011 :)

User avatar
Nova
Posts: 9116
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:55 pm

Re: +1, +2, +3, +4

Postby Nova » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:53 pm

francesfarmer wrote:
Nova wrote:
francesfarmer wrote:You are not a splitter (because that indicates you have a high LSAT, which you do not), but splitters/folks with low GPAs don't tend to get too much scholarship money.


UMN/WUSTL and many schools ranked lower give good money to splitters. Expect sticker at T18.

(assuming OP scores higher)

OP has a 2.4. He ain't getting money from UMN/WUSTL.

UMN/WUSTL pay for LSATs. Soft low 2.x floor for URMs.

User avatar
francesfarmer
Posts: 1409
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:52 am

Re: +1, +2, +3, +4

Postby francesfarmer » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:56 pm

raferna3 wrote:I know it doesnt matter, but I do have a 3.8ish the last 3 years. Has to count for SOMETHING.

Sure, it looks better than a downward trend. But 2.4/161<<<<<<<<<<<<2.5/161

I was rooting for you until you compared owning a business to being in the military

User avatar
raferna3
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:04 am

Re: +1, +2, +3, +4

Postby raferna3 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:00 pm

francesfarmer wrote:
raferna3 wrote:I know it doesnt matter, but I do have a 3.8ish the last 3 years. Has to count for SOMETHING.

Sure, it looks better than a downward trend. But 2.4/161<<<<<<<<<<<<2.5/161

I was rooting for you until you compared owning a business to being in the military



Why was that a bad thing? Not trying to rain on either parade. Yes, I am a business owner and perhaps a bit biased toward that end. I just think more goes into founding your own successful company than SOME military experience. but my father was a pilot in the Navy and I am considering JAG so I certainly have no ill will toward them.

I just know some guys who are in, or have been in the military who did next to nothing after boot camp.

Military, like anything else, is something which can be an incredible, challenging and life changing experience, or it can be something which you half-ass and just get by doing the minimum in some low level capacity. Same goes for business owners also, but at least as a business owner, or founder, you were, or are, the head of the snake no matter how you cut it.

User avatar
raferna3
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:04 am

Re: +1, +2, +3, +4

Postby raferna3 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:05 pm

Anyway, I think you're reading too much into what I said. I wasn't trying to ruffle any feathers. Both are wonderful life experiences(for the most part). I just think owning a business is more conducive to practicing law than being a cook in the Air Force for 4 years, for example. That's all I am saying.

User avatar
francesfarmer
Posts: 1409
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:52 am

Re: +1, +2, +3, +4

Postby francesfarmer » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:12 pm

raferna3 wrote:Anyway, I think you're reading too much into what I said. I wasn't trying to ruffle any feathers. Both are wonderful life experiences(for the most part). I just think owning a business is more conducive to practicing law than being a cook in the Air Force for 4 years, for example. That's all I am saying.

I'm biased because everyone I know who joined the military got shipped halfway around the world only to get horrible PTSD/limbs blown off, so I think the military is a little more intense than owning a business. Sure, a lot of people don't have that experience, but it's always a possibility.

User avatar
Nova
Posts: 9116
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:55 pm

Re: +1, +2, +3, +4

Postby Nova » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:17 pm

which brings us back to the flame that is +X

too many variables

User avatar
raferna3
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:04 am

Re: +1, +2, +3, +4

Postby raferna3 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:20 pm

francesfarmer wrote:
raferna3 wrote:Anyway, I think you're reading too much into what I said. I wasn't trying to ruffle any feathers. Both are wonderful life experiences(for the most part). I just think owning a business is more conducive to practicing law than being a cook in the Air Force for 4 years, for example. That's all I am saying.

I'm biased because everyone I know who joined the military got shipped halfway around the world only to get horrible PTSD/limbs blown off, so I think the military is a little more intense than owning a business. Sure, a lot of people don't have that experience, but it's always a possibility.


Well if you know that many people in the military you should know that a vast majority of them never have anything near that experience. To those who do, yeah, I would agree without thinking twice that this is of course a far more intense experience than anything business will ever offer but that is not even close to anything I said. Chill out, dude. Being the age we are, I think it is safe to say that we all have friends and loved ones who have deployed to Iraq/Afghanistan. But no one here is comparing combat with owning a business except you.

User avatar
francesfarmer
Posts: 1409
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:52 am

Re: +1, +2, +3, +4

Postby francesfarmer » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:26 pm

raferna3 wrote:
francesfarmer wrote:
raferna3 wrote:Anyway, I think you're reading too much into what I said. I wasn't trying to ruffle any feathers. Both are wonderful life experiences(for the most part). I just think owning a business is more conducive to practicing law than being a cook in the Air Force for 4 years, for example. That's all I am saying.

I'm biased because everyone I know who joined the military got shipped halfway around the world only to get horrible PTSD/limbs blown off, so I think the military is a little more intense than owning a business. Sure, a lot of people don't have that experience, but it's always a possibility.


Well if you know that many people in the military you should know that a vast majority of them never have anything near that experience. To those who do, yeah, I would agree without thinking twice that this is of course a far more intense experience than anything business will ever offer but that is not even close to anything I said. Chill out, dude. Being the age we are, I think it is safe to say that we all have friends and loved ones who have deployed to Iraq/Afghanistan. But no one here is comparing combat with owning a business except you.

I guess I feel like joining the military during wartime = risking combat

I'm a chick

P.S. bootcamp is probably still more intense than "owning a business"
Last edited by francesfarmer on Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mr.hands
Posts: 892
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:23 pm

Re: +1, +2, +3, +4

Postby mr.hands » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:26 pm

What kind I business are we talking about?

Also, the PR boosts that I have seen are pretty negligible. It certainly exists but I wouldn't count of it doing much work for you. It's not like an 8-10 point LSAT increase or anything

Finally, the URM boost is most prevalent for applicants w higher GPAs and low LSATs, not the other way around

User avatar
MikeSpivey
Posts: 2607
Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 4:28 pm

Re: +1, +2, +3, +4

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:29 pm

Nova wrote:which brings us back to the flame that is +X

too many variables


Ironically I was working on a blog article two days ago called "The Fallacy of Single-factor Causality and Reductionism" which is exactly about how there are too many variables to ever look at one or two variables, the irony being that I still weighed in here. i should get on that article.

User avatar
raferna3
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:04 am

Re: +1, +2, +3, +4

Postby raferna3 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:32 pm

mr.hands wrote:What kind I business are we talking about?

Also, the PR boosts that I have seen are pretty negligible. It certainly exists but I wouldn't count of it doing much work for you. It's not like an 8-10 point LSAT increase or anything

Finally, the URM boost is most prevalent for applicants w higher GPAs and low LSATs, not the other way around


I dont want to go into too much detail on my business so I can maintain some kind of anonymity. But it is a company that has done around 2 million dollars in business since I founded it about 5 years ago and does work across the country. I also founded the largest fraternity on my UG campus(40,000+ students), and interned for a high-profile public official in a top-5 US city.

So I feel I have a strong and proven track record of leadership, and success... As long as you ignore my freshman and sophomore grades.

User avatar
raferna3
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:04 am

Re: +1, +2, +3, +4

Postby raferna3 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:38 pm

francesfarmer wrote:
raferna3 wrote:
francesfarmer wrote:
raferna3 wrote:Anyway, I think you're reading too much into what I said. I wasn't trying to ruffle any feathers. Both are wonderful life experiences(for the most part). I just think owning a business is more conducive to practicing law than being a cook in the Air Force for 4 years, for example. That's all I am saying.

I'm biased because everyone I know who joined the military got shipped halfway around the world only to get horrible PTSD/limbs blown off, so I think the military is a little more intense than owning a business. Sure, a lot of people don't have that experience, but it's always a possibility.


Well if you know that many people in the military you should know that a vast majority of them never have anything near that experience. To those who do, yeah, I would agree without thinking twice that this is of course a far more intense experience than anything business will ever offer but that is not even close to anything I said. Chill out, dude. Being the age we are, I think it is safe to say that we all have friends and loved ones who have deployed to Iraq/Afghanistan. But no one here is comparing combat with owning a business except you.

I guess I feel like joining the military during wartime = risking combat

I'm a chick

P.S. bootcamp is probably still more intense than "owning a business"


Yeah, a few months of running and push ups are FAR worse than years of extreme stress and putting your financial well-being on the line every single day to make a dollar :roll: ... Look, I respect everything the men and women in the military do. But owning a business is no walk in the park. Far from it. I think they both offer unique challenges and degree of difficulty varies on individual circumstance and genetics.

User avatar
Nova
Posts: 9116
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:55 pm

Re: +1, +2, +3, +4

Postby Nova » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:39 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
Nova wrote:which brings us back to the flame that is +X

too many variables


Ironically I was working on a blog article two days ago called "The Fallacy of Single-factor Causality and Reductionism" which is exactly about how there are too many variables to ever look at one or two variables, the irony being that I still weighed in here. i should get on that article.

:lol: :lol:

User avatar
raferna3
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:04 am

Re: +1, +2, +3, +4

Postby raferna3 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:45 pm

Nova wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:
Nova wrote:which brings us back to the flame that is +X

too many variables


Ironically I was working on a blog article two days ago called "The Fallacy of Single-factor Causality and Reductionism" which is exactly about how there are too many variables to ever look at one or two variables, the irony being that I still weighed in here. i should get on that article.

:lol: :lol:


I'd encourage you to get on it and provide a link. :)

User avatar
CyanIdes Of March
Posts: 743
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:57 pm

Re: +1, +2, +3, +4

Postby CyanIdes Of March » Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:22 am

francesfarmer wrote:
raferna3 wrote:
francesfarmer wrote:
raferna3 wrote:Anyway, I think you're reading too much into what I said. I wasn't trying to ruffle any feathers. Both are wonderful life experiences(for the most part). I just think owning a business is more conducive to practicing law than being a cook in the Air Force for 4 years, for example. That's all I am saying.

I'm biased because everyone I know who joined the military got shipped halfway around the world only to get horrible PTSD/limbs blown off, so I think the military is a little more intense than owning a business. Sure, a lot of people don't have that experience, but it's always a possibility.


Well if you know that many people in the military you should know that a vast majority of them never have anything near that experience. To those who do, yeah, I would agree without thinking twice that this is of course a far more intense experience than anything business will ever offer but that is not even close to anything I said. Chill out, dude. Being the age we are, I think it is safe to say that we all have friends and loved ones who have deployed to Iraq/Afghanistan. But no one here is comparing combat with owning a business except you.

I guess I feel like joining the military during wartime = risking combat

I'm a chick

P.S. bootcamp is probably still more intense than "owning a business"


It's not so much about "what's more intense" but rather which makes you a more valuable law school applicant, both for your abilities and contribution to the class's profile of students. Owning a business could be a much more unique experience than a military background, depending on a few other factors.

As for "risking combat". That is a choice they have made while knowing the risk involved, so let's not victimize them.

User avatar
Young Marino
Posts: 826
Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:36 pm

Re: +1, +2, +3, +4

Postby Young Marino » Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:27 am

Any additional points for government and community service? Lol

User avatar
CyanIdes Of March
Posts: 743
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:57 pm

Re: +1, +2, +3, +4

Postby CyanIdes Of March » Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:43 am

ALeal90 wrote:Any additional points for government and community service? Lol


+ 1 for community service? Probably very little at some schools and a +2 at schools that have a strong focus on that sort of thing.




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], MSNbot Media, sanibella and 1 guest