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(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
jh223
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Postby jh223 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:44 am

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Last edited by jh223 on Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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John_rizzy_rawls
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Re: 3.72, 156, John Marshall Scholarship?

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:47 am

Do not waste that GPA, six figures of non-dischargeable debt, and 3yrs of your life by going to John Marshall only to graduate with atrocious employment prospects.

Use one of TLS's many LSAT study guides and retake in October.

For some perspective, you're looking solid at WUSTL on down with some $$ if you can notch 3-9 more points on the LSAT.

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Last edited by John_rizzy_rawls on Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

jh223
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Postby jh223 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:51 am

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Last edited by jh223 on Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ti Malice
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Re: 3.72, 156, John Marshall Scholarship?

Postby Ti Malice » Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:56 am

It's doubtful anyone here will know. Use the search function.

I don't know which John Marshall you're talking about, but don't attend either one. They both provide horrible employment prospects. I believe both come with top-third stips on their scholarships as well, meaning you're more likely than not to end up without a scholarship after 1L.

jh223
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Postby jh223 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:07 am

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jselson
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Re: 3.72, 156, John Marshall Scholarship?

Postby jselson » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:32 am

jh223 wrote:In Chicago. If anyone would know the amount of scholarship $$, would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks!


Probably a lot since you're over both 75th %s. Now please close this thread.

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romothesavior
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Re: 3.72, 156, John Marshall Scholarship?

Postby romothesavior » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:42 am

jh223 wrote:In Chicago. If anyone would know the amount of scholarship $$, would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks!

It is quite literally one of the 5 or 10 worst schools there is, located in maybe the worst legal market in the country. That you're even considering it with a 3.72 GPA is mind-boggling to me.

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Young Marino
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Re: 3.72, 156, John Marshall Scholarship?

Postby Young Marino » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:06 am

jh223 wrote:3.72 GPA, 156 LSAT. Would anyone know how much $$ I'd be able to get to John Marshall in Chicago?

Thanks!

Look dude, if you're above both 75th percentiles you'll probably end up with significant scholly money and a chance to negotiate up to a full ride. If you're ok with working for a small firm or public interest I'd advise you take the scholly and not look back. However, if you are trying to get a biglaw job, I'd retake and try to get in some where better. But please don't listen to these internet trolls who have jerk off competitions over who can get into HYS. It all depends on your career goals.

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bjsesq
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Re: 3.72, 156, John Marshall Scholarship?

Postby bjsesq » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:08 am

romothesavior wrote:
jh223 wrote:In Chicago. If anyone would know the amount of scholarship $$, would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks!

It is quite literally one of the 5 or 10 worst schools there is, located in maybe the worst legal market in the country. That you're even considering it with a 3.72 GPA is mind-boggling to me.


Yeah, but what what amount of money on a scholly?

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Dmini7
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Re: 3.72, 156, John Marshall Scholarship?

Postby Dmini7 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:41 am

Students Matriculating In :

# Entering with Conditional Scholarships
217

# Whose Conditional Scholarships Have Since Been Reduced or Eliminated
109

http://www.jmls.edu/students/scholarshi ... n-data.php

You will probably get a lot of money, but realize you have a 50% chance of losing all that money if you were just comparing yourself to those who received scholarships.

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TaipeiMort
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Re: 3.72, 156, John Marshall Scholarship?

Postby TaipeiMort » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:14 pm

JMLS is a joke in Chicago. It is similar to Cooley in Michigan, Ave Maria in Florida, TJLS in San Diego, GGU in San Francisco, and Phoenix Law in Arizona.

Even non-law professionals make fun of it, and practicing attorneys disrespect those who hold the degree. Do you really want to be in a position where people disrespect you the rest of your life because of your degree? Don't do this to your self esteem. It won't be a situation where you can simply walk out to the suburbs and subsist with a solo practice either. You will likely graduate without a job, and a lot of debt. The school has a smart business model which revolves around stripping scholarships from deserving students after year one.

If you retook the LSAT, you could get into an at least real law school like Loyola, Kent, or a good school like NU or uChicago. You are getting scammed if you don't retake. I PTed in the 140s or something, put in 4 months of prep and got into the 170s consistently by month 3, got a good LSAT score, and got admitted to uChicago. Why throw your life away? This isn't hyperbole. I used to play poker to subsist, and would highly recommend even TTT gambling like slot machines or roulette over this school.

Ti Malice
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Re: 3.72, 156, John Marshall Scholarship?

Postby Ti Malice » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:24 pm

ALeal90 wrote:
jh223 wrote:3.72 GPA, 156 LSAT. Would anyone know how much $$ I'd be able to get to John Marshall in Chicago?

Thanks!

Look dude, if you're above both 75th percentiles you'll probably end up with significant scholly money and a chance to negotiate up to a full ride. If you're ok with working for a small firm or public interest I'd advise you take the scholly and not look back. However, if you are trying to get a biglaw job, I'd retake and try to get in some where better. But please don't listen to these internet trolls who have jerk off competitions over who can get into HYS. It all depends on your career goals.


Truly atrocious advice.

OP, the above might be what you want to hear, but listening to a 0L who knows next to nothing about legal employment and who also appears to be making the same awful decision of applying with a great GPA and a terrible LSAT is not the way to gather useful information. Don't be duped by your own confirmation bias.

If your "career goals" include securing any kind of long-term, full-time employment that requires bar passage, then you should definitely not go to JMLS, where 60% of the last graduating class had failed to achieve that result within nine months of graduation.

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Young Marino
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Re: 3.72, 156, John Marshall Scholarship?

Postby Young Marino » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:06 pm

Ti Malice wrote:
ALeal90 wrote:
jh223 wrote:3.72 GPA, 156 LSAT. Would anyone know how much $$ I'd be able to get to John Marshall in Chicago?

Thanks!

Look dude, if you're above both 75th percentiles you'll probably end up with significant scholly money and a chance to negotiate up to a full ride. If you're ok with working for a small firm or public interest I'd advise you take the scholly and not look back. However, if you are trying to get a biglaw job, I'd retake and try to get in some where better. But please don't listen to these internet trolls who have jerk off competitions over who can get into HYS. It all depends on your career goals.


Truly atrocious advice.

OP, the above might be what you want to hear, but listening to a 0L who knows next to nothing about legal employment and who also appears to be making the same awful decision of applying with a great GPA and a terrible LSAT is not the way to gather useful information. Don't be duped by your own confirmation bias.

If your "career goals" include securing any kind of long-term, full-time employment that requires bar passage, then you should definitely not go to JMLS, where 60% of the last graduating class had failed to achieve that result within nine months of graduation.

Who is to say that OP isn't skilled and driven enough to be in that 40% that did secure long term employment according to your statistics? After all, a degree from HYS isn't shit of you don't know how to utilize it. OP can get out of LS with a small amount of debt and if he puts some serious effort into networking and is near the top of his class. He will be fine. I know the common logic on TLS is t14 or bust but that route is not for everyone. There have been plenty of people who graduated from TTTTs and went on to be very successful. It all comes down to you as a person and if you are willing to put in the extra work required when going to a tttt. Again, TLS is full of Internet trolls engaging in jerk off competitions to see who gets in to HYS. Take all advice with a grain of salt OP including mine because nobody really knows the nature of your situation

PRgradBYU
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Re: 3.72, 156, John Marshall Scholarship?

Postby PRgradBYU » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:17 pm

ALeal90 wrote:Who is to say that OP isn't skilled and driven enough to be in that 40% that did secure long term employment according to your statistics? After all, a degree from HYS isn't shit of you don't know how to utilize it. OP can get out of LS with a small amount of debt and if he puts some serious effort into networking and is near the top of his class. He will be fine. I know the common logic on TLS is t14 or bust but that route is not for everyone. There have been plenty of people who graduated from TTTTs and went on to be very successful. It all comes down to you as a person and if you are willing to put in the extra work required when going to a tttt. Again, TLS is full of Internet trolls engaging in jerk off competitions to see who gets in to HYS. Take all advice with a grain of salt OP including mine because nobody really knows the nature of your situation


JMLS is a categorically terrible school with abysmal job prospects (the worst in the state). Not everyone needs to go to HYS to get a fantastic legal education and end up with gainful employment, but a school like John Marshall is not conducive to the latter or--arguably--the former.

Don't waste that 3.72 on anything below the mid- to high 160s, OP!

tractal
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Re: 3.72, 156, John Marshall Scholarship?

Postby tractal » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:29 pm

ALeal90 wrote:
Ti Malice wrote:
ALeal90 wrote:
jh223 wrote:3.72 GPA, 156 LSAT. Would anyone know how much $$ I'd be able to get to John Marshall in Chicago?

Thanks!

Look dude, if you're above both 75th percentiles you'll probably end up with significant scholly money and a chance to negotiate up to a full ride. If you're ok with working for a small firm or public interest I'd advise you take the scholly and not look back. However, if you are trying to get a biglaw job, I'd retake and try to get in some where better. But please don't listen to these internet trolls who have jerk off competitions over who can get into HYS. It all depends on your career goals.


Truly atrocious advice.

OP, the above might be what you want to hear, but listening to a 0L who knows next to nothing about legal employment and who also appears to be making the same awful decision of applying with a great GPA and a terrible LSAT is not the way to gather useful information. Don't be duped by your own confirmation bias.

If your "career goals" include securing any kind of long-term, full-time employment that requires bar passage, then you should definitely not go to JMLS, where 60% of the last graduating class had failed to achieve that result within nine months of graduation.

Who is to say that OP isn't skilled and driven enough to be in that 40% that did secure long term employment according to your statistics? After all, a degree from HYS isn't shit of you don't know how to utilize it. OP can get out of LS with a small amount of debt and if he puts some serious effort into networking and is near the top of his class. He will be fine. I know the common logic on TLS is t14 or bust but that route is not for everyone. There have been plenty of people who graduated from TTTTs and went on to be very successful. It all comes down to you as a person and if you are willing to put in the extra work required when going to a tttt. Again, TLS is full of Internet trolls engaging in jerk off competitions to see who gets in to HYS. Take all advice with a grain of salt OP including mine because nobody really knows the nature of your situation


No one is saying we know that OP won't succeed at John Marshall, we're just saying the odds are low, and that the odds improve fantastically with 10 points on the LSAT. OP has a 50% chance of keeping his scholarship. Losing his scholarship means 6 figure debt and near certainty of unemployment. Keeping his scholarship probably means a reasonable chance of some job, but probably not a great one and, depending on OPs current options, not likely to be worth 3 years and 100k (assuming you kept the scholarship). Some sliver of people are going to do well, but the same is true of roulette, except the odds there are much better.

So let's say 7/10 chance OP gets either screwed or disappointed by John Marshall (50% chance debt pwnd/unemployed, 20% chance mediocre/nonlawyer job, 30% chance decent law job). If OP retook for 10 more points (doable) those odds would flip. No matter how much of a try hard networking bro OP is, the opportunity cost of a retake is OBVIOUSLY worth that huge jump in prospects. High GPA/Low LSAT=Retake or don't go.

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bjsesq
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Re: 3.72, 156, John Marshall Scholarship?

Postby bjsesq » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:58 pm

ALeal90 wrote:Who is to say that OP isn't skilled and driven enough to be in that 40% that did secure long term employment according to your statistics?



Well, statistics say he is more likely to lose it, so there's that. Derp.

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Happy Gilmore
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Re: v

Postby Happy Gilmore » Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:34 pm

Actually visited John Marshall on a pre-law trip, I won't bother telling you how shitty it is, you already know that. but the one thing that was funny was when one of the other students visiting asked "Is this a good area to go to school?" Her response was, "Well....Once you get into the building you will be fine. It's pretty bad out there, every now and then there is a shooting or someone gets raped, but that's never happened inside the building." Where do I sign up?

To offer you at least something substantive, of the 4 schools we visited that day. John Marshall was without a doubt the worst school. I don't mean by ranking, but just their facilities. The best thing I liked about the school was how close it was to michigan avenue. But anyways, I wouldn't go to John Marshall, you will be a laughing stalk for the rest of your career. You want a degree that you are proud to tell people about.

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mvonh001
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Re: v

Postby mvonh001 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:48 pm

Your obvioulsy not applying this cycle, but for the 2014 date? Correct, if so why not spend 3-5 months studying for the lsat and retake. It will cost you about 20 hours a week and $165.00, but is worth much more than that in the long run if you pick up your score... and if you don't - dont become a lawyer.

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buddyt
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Re: 3.72, 156, John Marshall Scholarship?

Postby buddyt » Fri Jul 05, 2013 5:16 pm

bjsesq wrote:
ALeal90 wrote:Who is to say that OP isn't skilled and driven enough to be in that 40% that did secure long term employment according to your statistics?



Well, statistics say he is more likely to lose it, so there's that. Derp.

:lol:




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