GPA above median, does LSAT median vs. slightly over matter?

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NoWorries
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GPA above median, does LSAT median vs. slightly over matter?

Postby NoWorries » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:07 am

Talking mainly T14 schools. HCCN in particular.

If your GPA is above the median is there a substantial difference between an LSAT median and one a point or two over? For example, say you have a 4.0 and a 175 applying to Harvard. Are your chances really much better than a 4.0, 173?

Also, does this differ based on the school? For instance Columbia's graphs on LSN indicate that it does seem to make a meaningful difference. Other schools, not so much.

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t-14orbust
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Re: GPA above median, does LSAT median vs. slightly over matter?

Postby t-14orbust » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:23 am

Yes and yes

Ti Malice
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Re: GPA above median, does LSAT median vs. slightly over matter?

Postby Ti Malice » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:29 am

Play around with this: http://www.mylsn.info/app_checker.php.

In brief, yes, there is in general a substantial advantage to being over rather than at median.

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Clearly
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Re: GPA above median, does LSAT median vs. slightly over matter?

Postby Clearly » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:41 am

Just the nature of statistics provides reason to believe they would be treated differently... above median is helping things, at median is just not hurting things. I would expect the difference to come down to any given schools exact position at the time they are looking at you're app... if they have sufficiently secured the median that year, awesome. If they are a few data points away raising the median, no good. If they are in danger of slipping median, great.

NoWorries
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Re: GPA above median, does LSAT median vs. slightly over matter?

Postby NoWorries » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:57 am

Clearlynotstefan wrote:Just the nature of statistics provides reason to believe they would be treated differently... above median is helping things, at median is just not hurting things. I would expect the difference to come down to any given schools exact position at the time they are looking at you're app... if they have sufficiently secured the median that year, awesome. If they are a few data points away raising the median, no good. If they are in danger of slipping median, great.


So in the current climate it would seem median holds a much stronger value than say 5 years ago? Schools with medians in the 170's seem to be doing anything possible to hold those medians. Scholarships off the waitlist. Slight class reductions. Taking super splitters. General number whore behavior off the waitlist.

NoWorries
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Re: GPA above median, does LSAT median vs. slightly over matter?

Postby NoWorries » Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:21 am

Ti Malice wrote:Play around with this: http://www.mylsn.info/app_checker.php.

In brief, yes, there is in general a substantial advantage to being over rather than at median.


Ok, so I took the last 3 cycles and played around with this. Didn't include Yale and Stanford because they are obviously different.


Harvard - 173, 3.89 are the medians. I utilized 3.9-4.33 as the GPA range (above median). 171-61% 172-84% 173-88% 174-87% 175-95%

Columbia - 172, 3.72. 3.73-4.33 as GPA range. 170-38% 171-71% 172-76% 173-87% 174-80%

Chicago - 171, 3.87. 3.88-4.33 GPA range. 169-67% 170-71% 171-68% 172-84% 173-91%

NYU - 172, 3.71. 3.72-4.33 GPA range. 170-77% 171-86% 172-90% 173-100% 174-97%


Obviously this is a small sample size but it seems that of these 4 schools Chicago is the only one with a somewhat major jump for being over median. For the other 3 it appears the big jump is from 2 under to 1 under median. Further progressions in odds are apparent but rather minimal.

Ti Malice
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Re: GPA above median, does LSAT median vs. slightly over matter?

Postby Ti Malice » Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:52 am

A few things:

(1) It's better overall to use the default measurement of the last six cycles. Obviously that won't give as accurate a picture as to one person's present chances of admission, but when we're making relative comparison of aggregate results, it's much better to have the larger sample size -- as long as the median hasn't changed over those years. HCC have had the same medians for at least the last six years; NYU has not, however.

(2) I would leave out the GPAs close to 4.33. There are a fair number fake profiles on LSN with GPAs (and LSATs) at the extremes, and I think the data will be less distorted if you cap the GPA at, say, 4.2. Make sure you're excluding URMs from your search as well.

(3) Actually, I would cap the GPAs much lower. I haven't checked to verify, but I suspect the importance of being above rather than at the LSAT median will show up more strongly when the GPA is above median but under the 75th percentile. All schools are much more willing to consider at or below-median LSATs when the GPA is above any reported number. Someone with a 4.0+ is very likely in at Harvard even with a 172, for instance.

(4) I know this wasn't your question, but at a number of schools, even being a single point above rather than at the LSAT median is important for people with GPAs at or above the 25th percentile but below median.

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bombaysippin
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Re: GPA above median, does LSAT median vs. slightly over matter?

Postby bombaysippin » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:25 pm

Check this thread and site out. It should be able to give you a bit more insight.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=210245




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