Tuition and Admission are Ridiculous This Day and Age

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integralx2
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Tuition and Admission are Ridiculous This Day and Age

Postby integralx2 » Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:52 pm

Can someone explain why people are still applying to law schools (and the law schools not just flat out rejecting them) and taking on huge amounts of debt? To go for instance to Stanford is around $75k/yr (including living expenses). Thats $225k for 3 years! Even with scholarship it knocks it down to $130k lets say, thats still a lot of money. Or consider Cooley which is $55k a year (including living expenses). I don't get why law schools throw this huge smoke screen up, and trick kids (lets be serious at 22, with a liberal arts degree your not that bright) with false dreams (yes some do make it). Its sad and disgusting accruing $100k+ debt from a T3/T4 school and not being able to pay it off.

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Dmini7
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Re: Tuition and Admission are Ridiculous This Day and Age

Postby Dmini7 » Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:55 pm

integralx2 wrote:Can someone explain why people are still applying to law schools (and the law schools not just flat out rejecting them) and taking on huge amounts of debt? To go for instance to Stanford is around $75k/yr (including living expenses). Thats $225k for 3 years! Even with scholarship it knocks it down to $130k lets say, thats still a lot of money. Or consider Cooley which is $55k a year (including living expenses). I don't get why law schools throw this huge smoke screen up, and trick kids (lets be serious at 22, with a liberal arts degree your not that bright) with false dreams (yes some do make it). Its sad and disgusting accruing $100k+ debt from a T3/T4 school and not being able to pay it off.


+1. Let's not consider Stanford a scam and instead stick with schools that truly are bad.

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rinkrat19
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Re: Tuition and Admission are Ridiculous This Day and Age

Postby rinkrat19 » Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:58 pm

Law school is too expensive? THIS IS TOTALLY NEW INFORMATION.

integralx2
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Re: Tuition and Admission are Ridiculous This Day and Age

Postby integralx2 » Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:11 pm

Dmini7 wrote:
integralx2 wrote:Can someone explain why people are still applying to law schools (and the law schools not just flat out rejecting them) and taking on huge amounts of debt? To go for instance to Stanford is around $75k/yr (including living expenses). Thats $225k for 3 years! Even with scholarship it knocks it down to $130k lets say, thats still a lot of money. Or consider Cooley which is $55k a year (including living expenses). I don't get why law schools throw this huge smoke screen up, and trick kids (lets be serious at 22, with a liberal arts degree your not that bright) with false dreams (yes some do make it). Its sad and disgusting accruing $100k+ debt from a T3/T4 school and not being able to pay it off.


+1. Let's not consider Stanford a scam and instead stick with schools that truly are bad.


I think we can both agree that law has not changed in the last 30 years to warrant the tuition rising to $50k/yr. If you give me the legal education that someone received in the 1970s, I guarantee you people will pass the bars still. THe price for a legal education does not justify it. I was saying Cooley or Stanford it does not matter. Education should not be $50k a year!

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BerkeleyBear
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Re: Tuition and Admission are Ridiculous This Day and Age

Postby BerkeleyBear » Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:01 pm

integralx2 wrote:
Dmini7 wrote:
integralx2 wrote:Can someone explain why people are still applying to law schools (and the law schools not just flat out rejecting them) and taking on huge amounts of debt? To go for instance to Stanford is around $75k/yr (including living expenses). Thats $225k for 3 years! Even with scholarship it knocks it down to $130k lets say, thats still a lot of money. Or consider Cooley which is $55k a year (including living expenses). I don't get why law schools throw this huge smoke screen up, and trick kids (lets be serious at 22, with a liberal arts degree your not that bright) with false dreams (yes some do make it). Its sad and disgusting accruing $100k+ debt from a T3/T4 school and not being able to pay it off.


+1. Let's not consider Stanford a scam and instead stick with schools that truly are bad.


I think we can both agree that law has not changed in the last 30 years to warrant the tuition rising to $50k/yr. If you give me the legal education that someone received in the 1970s, I guarantee you people will pass the bars still. THe price for a legal education does not justify it. I was saying Cooley or Stanford it does not matter. Education should not be $50k a year!


I found the bolded somewhat funny. Anyways, comparing Stanford to Cooley is a new one. I don't see how you can even compare the two schools.

Yes, the price of law school is incredibly high at almost every school worthy of attending. Either get good grades and a high LSAT or don't go. The people who take on HYS at sticker likely turned down substantial scholarships at other schools. No one is forcing a student to dish out that much money. Sometimes life isn't fair. Oh well. Damn shitboomers.

Dolphine
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Re: Tuition and Admission are Ridiculous This Day and Age

Postby Dolphine » Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:15 pm

Paying for law school is a complete scam.

californiauser
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Re: Tuition and Admission are Ridiculous This Day and Age

Postby californiauser » Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:17 pm

Paying sticker at a t14 CAN be justified in certain circumstances. However, I don't understand how people are going to schools like Hastings and Cooley at sticker price.

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jselson
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Re: Tuition and Admission are Ridiculous This Day and Age

Postby jselson » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:24 pm

Considering that HYS basically guarantee you a job that will earn you the entire tuition amount in a single year, the amounts they're charging are perfectly fine (especially with their LRAPs). To a lesser degree, the same applies to the other T13s. After that, you're basically at a casino paying to play, with worse and worse odds (say, going from Craps to playing video slots) as you head further and further down.

20141023
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Re: Tuition and Admission are Ridiculous This Day and Age

Postby 20141023 » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:42 pm

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Last edited by 20141023 on Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NoWorries
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Re: Tuition and Admission are Ridiculous This Day and Age

Postby NoWorries » Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:12 am

integralx2 wrote:(lets be serious at 22, with a liberal arts degree your not that bright)


This is a pathetic flame attempt.
Last edited by NoWorries on Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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finnandjake2
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Re: Tuition and Admission are Ridiculous This Day and Age

Postby finnandjake2 » Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:14 am

NoWorries wrote:
integralx2 wrote:(lets be serious at 22, with a liberal arts degree your not that bright)quote]

This is a pathetic flame attempt.


C'mon now. Let's be serious.

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Bronte
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Re: Tuition and Admission are Ridiculous This Day and Age

Postby Bronte » Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:01 am

At top schools where there's reasonable certainty of becoming a lawyer, law school can make good economic sense at sticker. This is taking account of the high-six-figure salaries in big law plus LRAP and IBR. It can further make good career sense and be a good life decision if the applicant, having a reasonable understanding of what lawyering entails, wants to be a lawyer.

Regarding schools like Cooley, it's an uncontroversial proposition that they're not worth attending, even for free.

mr.hands
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Re: Tuition and Admission are Ridiculous This Day and Age

Postby mr.hands » Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:02 am

OP, are you drunk?

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MT Cicero
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Re: Tuition and Admission are Ridiculous This Day and Age

Postby MT Cicero » Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:20 am

Edited
Last edited by MT Cicero on Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AllTheLawz
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Re: Tuition and Admission are Ridiculous This Day and Age

Postby AllTheLawz » Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:59 am

Despite the fact that OP is obviously trolling... he is right, even HYS at sticker is extremely questionable and should not be taken lightly. $260k debt is going to difficult to pay off even on $160k+ salary. Even if you last 4-5 years in biglaw you will have a major chunk of loans left. I will graduate from HYS ~150k in total debt. On a 5-year repayment plan I am looking at around $3k/month payments, or $36k of my first-year post-tax income of 106k. Add in the fact that to make $160k you have to live in a high cost-of-living city (with some exceptions, obviously) and you realize the payoff to law school with a debt even in the more moderate range isn't amazing.

BigZuck
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Re: Tuition and Admission are Ridiculous This Day and Age

Postby BigZuck » Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:32 am

AllTheLawz wrote:Despite the fact that OP is obviously trolling... he is right, even HYS at sticker is extremely questionable and should not be taken lightly. $260k debt is going to difficult to pay off even on $160k+ salary. Even if you last 4-5 years in biglaw you will have a major chunk of loans left. I will graduate from HYS ~150k in total debt. On a 5-year repayment plan I am looking at around $3k/month payments, or $36k of my first-year post-tax income of 106k. Add in the fact that to make $160k you have to live in a high cost-of-living city (with some exceptions, obviously) and you realize the payoff to law school with a debt even in the more moderate range isn't amazing.


70K take home? The horror!

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Bronte
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Re: Tuition and Admission are Ridiculous This Day and Age

Postby Bronte » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:07 am

AllTheLawz wrote:Despite the fact that OP is obviously trolling... he is right, even HYS at sticker is extremely questionable and should not be taken lightly. $260k debt is going to difficult to pay off even on $160k+ salary. Even if you last 4-5 years in biglaw you will have a major chunk of loans left. I will graduate from HYS ~150k in total debt. On a 5-year repayment plan I am looking at around $3k/month payments, or $36k of my first-year post-tax income of 106k. Add in the fact that to make $160k you have to live in a high cost-of-living city (with some exceptions, obviously) and you realize the payoff to law school with a debt even in the more moderate range isn't amazing.


By my math it's closer to $45,000 first year when you factor in bonus. That of course rapidly increases. And like BigZuck said this is after-tax, so it equates to something like a $60,000-70,000 salary.

Note also that you're assuming a 5-year repayment plan. But student loan debt is incredibly flexible. There's so reason you can't stretch those payments out. Add PAYE and IBR to the mix, and your dire assessment of the situation starts to look a little over pessimistic.

hiltopp01
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Re: Tuition and Admission are Ridiculous This Day and Age

Postby hiltopp01 » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:16 am

Egregious anti-Stanford trolling in this thread. Utterly ridiculous

PRgradBYU
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Re: Tuition and Admission are Ridiculous This Day and Age

Postby PRgradBYU » Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:23 pm

integralx2 wrote:Can someone explain why people are still applying to law schools (and the law schools not just flat out rejecting them) and taking on huge amounts of debt? To go for instance to Stanford is around $75k/yr (including living expenses). Thats $225k for 3 years! Even with scholarship it knocks it down to $130k lets say, thats still a lot of money. Or consider Cooley which is $55k a year (including living expenses). I don't get why law schools throw this huge smoke screen up, and trick kids (lets be serious at 22, with a liberal arts degree your not that bright) with false dreams (yes some do make it). Its sad and disgusting accruing $100k+ debt from a T3/T4 school and not being able to pay it off.


thx

integralx2 wrote:I was saying Cooley or Stanford it does not matter.


Are you really trying to compare TTTThomas Cooley Law to SLS? You, sir, made my day.

hiltopp01 wrote:Egregious anti-Stanford trolling in this thread. Utterly ridiculous


OP is likely butthurt about his SLS auto-rejection.

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Presidentjlh
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Re: Tuition and Admission are Ridiculous This Day and Age

Postby Presidentjlh » Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:28 pm

Stanford is one of the few schools I would be quite fine with paying sticker for.

Overally, yes, everyone knows most schools overcharge big time. But come on, HYS are definitely worth sticker.

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Young Marino
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Re: Tuition and Admission are Ridiculous This Day and Age

Postby Young Marino » Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:48 pm

I think law school is definitely a risky gamble depending on the school and career options you have. For example, for someone who has no interest in working in biglaw, a school that offers you more money regardless of rank may be a better option especially if you are looking to work in public interest or don't mind working at a small or mid sized firm. I think the whole t14 or bust mindset is a bit overblown but not if you're the type of person that will only be an attorney if you work in biglaw. Thats where tuition being too high comes into play. Everyone's situation is different so it really just depends on your career goals to make the call if law school is worth it or not

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t-14orbust
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Re: Tuition and Admission are Ridiculous This Day and Age

Postby t-14orbust » Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:59 pm

ALeal90 wrote:I think law school is definitely a risky gamble depending on the school and career options you have. For example, for someone who has no interest in working in biglaw, a school that offers you more money regardless of rank may be a better option especially if you are looking to work in public interest or don't mind working at a small or mid sized firm. I think the whole t14 or bust mindset is a bit overblown but not if you're the type of person that will only be an attorney if you work in biglaw. Thats where tuition being too high comes into play. Everyone's situation is different so it really just depends on your career goals to make the call if law school is worth it or not


You rang? Alas, I was naive when I first created this account - it should have been HYSorbust.

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Young Marino
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Re: Tuition and Admission are Ridiculous This Day and Age

Postby Young Marino » Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:21 pm

t-14orbust wrote:
ALeal90 wrote:I think law school is definitely a risky gamble depending on the school and career options you have. For example, for someone who has no interest in working in biglaw, a school that offers you more money regardless of rank may be a better option especially if you are looking to work in public interest or don't mind working at a small or mid sized firm. I think the whole t14 or bust mindset is a bit overblown but not if you're the type of person that will only be an attorney if you work in biglaw. Thats where tuition being too high comes into play. Everyone's situation is different so it really just depends on your career goals to make the call if law school is worth it or not


You rang? Alas, I was naive when I first created this account - it should have been HYSorbust.

So say you go to HYS but decide you don't want the 80 hour work week and no time for family at a big firm and want to work at a friend's firm making half the salary but also working half the hours. Would it makr sense to get into a $150k debt when you could have gone to a lower ranked school at full ride considering you have secured employment upon graduation? I think that would really be a stupid decision. My point is, you have to look at your own situation and what your specific goals are instead of saying "it's HYS or bust" when you can end up in a horrid financial situation.

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Young Marino
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Re: Tuition and Admission are Ridiculous This Day and Age

Postby Young Marino » Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:24 pm

But then again, I guess those that live with the HYS mindset are perfect for biglaw and are probably in law school just for that

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t-14orbust
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Re: Tuition and Admission are Ridiculous This Day and Age

Postby t-14orbust » Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:27 pm

ALeal90 wrote:So say you go to HYS but decide you don't want the 80 hour work week and no time for family at a big firm and want to work at a friend's firm making half the salary but also working half the hours. Would it make sense to get into a $150k debt when you could have gone to a lower ranked school at full ride considering you have secured employment upon graduation? I think that would really be a stupid decision. My point is, you have to look at your own situation and what your specific goals are instead of saying "it's HYS or bust" when you can end up in a horrid financial situation.


I was joking brah, it's relative, we all know that. HYS also have very good LRAP programs so I'd still say they're a good idea, even at sticker.




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