asian-american boost at some schools, disadvantage at some?

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PDaddy
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Re: asian-american boost at some schools, disadvantage at some?

Postby PDaddy » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:13 am

It's funny how the more privileged Asian "minority groups" Chinese and Japanese or new African immigrants (Ethiopians and Somalians) tend to separate themselves from other groups of color, especially Black and Mexican Americans; yet they want to drink from the same fountain when it benefits them.

Like many 10th generation, AMERICAN-BORN African-Americans, I am highly offended that they even ask about the URM boost. It should be for groups HISTORICALLY discriminated against by the US legal, political and education systems.

Members of any group can present diversity and should have the opportunity to do so. But if there is a URM boost, only Black-American descendants of slavery, Mexican-Americans and American Indians deserve it. Ditto hardship statements. If one has been disadvantaged he should make his case. But other than that, the other groups are justifiably SOL on the URM boost issue.

Every other minority group or immigrant group came here by choice, and American soil never belonged to them.

CourCour
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Re: asian-american boost at some schools, disadvantage at some?

Postby CourCour » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:33 am

PDaddy wrote:It's funny how the more privileged Asian "minority groups" Chinese and Japanese or new African immigrants (Ethiopians and Somalians) tend to separate themselves from other groups of color, especially Black and Mexican Americans; yet they want to drink from the same fountain when it benefits them.

Like many 10th generation, AMERICAN-BORN African-Americans, I am highly offended that they even ask about the URM boost. It should be for groups HISTORICALLY discriminated against by the US legal, political and education systems.


Do you think refugees should get a boost?
How about the children of illegal immigrants?
How about a white jewish applicants?
How about a first generation college graduate who grew up in poverty but is white?
How about LGBT applicants?
How about white women?

How about a black- american upper class applicant?

PDaddy wrote:Members of any group can present diversity and should have the opportunity to do so. But if there is a URM boost, only Black-American descendants of slavery, Mexican-Americans and American Indians deserve it. Ditto hardship statements. If one has been disadvantaged he should make his case. But other than that, the other groups are justifiably SOL on the URM boost issue.

Every other minority group or immigrant group came here by choice, and American soil never belonged to them.


This is the same thinking that allows 'the man' to keep exploiting minority groups: divide and conquer.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: asian-american boost at some schools, disadvantage at some?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:56 am

Dudes, NO DEBATING AA IN THIS FORUM. Go to the AA thread for that.

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jas1503
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Re: asian-american boost at some schools, disadvantage at some?

Postby jas1503 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:21 am

JBagel. Ti Malice. I have seen your posts in other topics, I don't reply to your crap because you are the worst type of people on the internet. You both are the insufferably dickheaded internet intellectual.

Whatever the reason that you've become emotional and defensive, understand that my posts in this topic are addressing OP and BK-to an extent. I'm not interested in any, single thing that you both post or any events in your life. Please, take your stupid internet debates somewhere else. I'd rather be shot in the balls than reply to any of your posts again.

Don't reply to me, I don't reply to you; everyone is happy!

Huey Freeman
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Re: asian-american boost at some schools, disadvantage at some?

Postby Huey Freeman » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:30 am

CourCour wrote:
PDaddy wrote:It's funny how the more privileged Asian "minority groups" Chinese and Japanese or new African immigrants (Ethiopians and Somalians) tend to separate themselves from other groups of color, especially Black and Mexican Americans; yet they want to drink from the same fountain when it benefits them.

Like many 10th generation, AMERICAN-BORN African-Americans, I am highly offended that they even ask about the URM boost. It should be for groups HISTORICALLY discriminated against by the US legal, political and education systems.


Do you think refugees should get a boost?
How about the children of illegal immigrants?
How about a white jewish applicants?
How about a first generation college graduate who grew up in poverty but is white?
How about LGBT applicants?
How about white women?

How about a black- american upper class applicant?

PDaddy wrote:Members of any group can present diversity and should have the opportunity to do so. But if there is a URM boost, only Black-American descendants of slavery, Mexican-Americans and American Indians deserve it. Ditto hardship statements. If one has been disadvantaged he should make his case. But other than that, the other groups are justifiably SOL on the URM boost issue.

Every other minority group or immigrant group came here by choice, and American soil never belonged to them.


This is the same thinking that allows 'the man' to keep exploiting minority groups: divide and conquer.


+1 CourCour. PDaddy, are you serious? Get off your high horse if you think a very small subsect people are the only ones who have suffered in America's history. That's just close minded, bigoted, and a little racist. I have changed my views to support AA after John Rizzy Rawls laid out a logical argument for me, but your style of thinking is asinine.

I agree with you in terms of your desired outcome. The groups that get the URM boost should continue to get it, and the groups that don't, shouldn't. But your style of thinking promotes the attitude that AA will always exist (and one day, in an ideal society, we shouldn't have to rely on it), and I think that goes against what AA is trying to promote.

Also, I just realized you could be being sarcastic...in which case, I'm sorry. I just woke up, haven't eaten anything in 12 hours, and I'm a little grumpy.
Last edited by Huey Freeman on Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:34 am, edited 2 times in total.

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sinfiery
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Re: asian-american boost at some schools, disadvantage at some?

Postby sinfiery » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:32 am

jas1503 wrote:JBagel. Ti Malice. I have seen your posts in other topics, I don't reply to your crap because you are the worst type of people on the internet. You both are the insufferably dickheaded internet intellectual.

Whatever the reason that you've become emotional and defensive, understand that my posts in this topic are addressing OP and BK-to an extent. I'm not interested in any, single thing that you both post or any events in your life. Please, take your stupid internet debates somewhere else. I'd rather be shot in the balls than reply to any of your posts again.

Don't reply to me, I don't reply to you; everyone is happy!



If you aren't trolling ITT and believe what you say, you probably shouldn't go to lawschool. You likely are terrible at the LSAT as you not only are ignorant of basic logic but argue specifically against it without actually providing reason. It's atrocious.




Yeah, Pdaddy, that shit is a terrible argument.

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jas1503
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Re: asian-american boost at some schools, disadvantage at some?

Postby jas1503 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:58 am

What argument?

I'm not involved in any debate in this thread. If my posts in this thread gave off the impression that I was -even remotely- engaging anyone in an argument about law school crap, then we have a misunderstanding. I don't believe that I have a contrasting point that is at odds with your opinion because: 1) I don't know what your opinion is/don't care.

I'm not intentionally trying to be rude, just not into having a debate about this. I gave my opinion to OP and that's as far as I'm going to take it.

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sinfiery
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Re: asian-american boost at some schools, disadvantage at some?

Postby sinfiery » Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:15 pm

jas1503 wrote:
Using the percentage of the Asian population doesn't change the total number of Asians in law school. There's no one over-represented minority group in law school.

Most everything else you've said ITT is agreeable to a point but this statement and the subsequent defense screams either bad troll or idiot.

Lol at posting an opinion on a forum but not wanting a response from a community. Shoulda just PMed the OP then

asian0L
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Re: asian-american boost at some schools, disadvantage at some?

Postby asian0L » Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:15 pm

Ostensibly, I'm trying to play nice and try to stop this before it completely gets out of control.

Really, though, I just enjoy the role of devil's advocate.

I wonder if it's possible that the misunderstanding about "under-represented" minorities stems from ignorance rather than idiocy? Taking the words for what they are, I can easily see a dual meaning attached to them. Of course, I've been around long enough to know what is MEANT when people say "URM" in terms of law school. I hear the term, I realize it applies to law school in context, and I interpret it in one way, completely ignoring the other way.
However, without knowing this and being conditioned to automatically reject one interpretation of the phrase, is it reasonable to assume that when people say this, they're talking about one group being over-represented in terms of straight percentage in law schools (this percentage, of course, taken in a vacuum), and then only considering minority groups in this assessment?

for example, lets say that law schools randomly divided everyone up into five groups: J, K, L, M, and N (yes, that was intentional. Enjoy your LG flashback, suckers! :) ) so that these groups only applied to law students and there was no point of reference outside of law school. Let's also assume that scholarship money was only given to one group, and we all got to vote on which group. However, the group assignments (in terms of how many law school students were of each group) looked like this:

J: 15%
K: 15%
L: 15%
M: 40%
N: 15%

so that Ms got a huge check and everyone else got nothing, what wording would you use to complain about this? I think it's appropriate to say "M's are over-represented" and if someone said "why?", you might say, because they make up a larger percentage of the student body.

Of course, I obviously structured it in such a way that the argument could be made that "represented" here refers to "represented in a vote", akin to the R in URM refers to "represented in law school as compared to society", and this was to get you on my side in stages with a slightly removed but hopefully reasonable argument. So, then, if we can agree that the idea of what this word is 'referring' to can reasonably apply to other situations AS LONG AS one doesn't have the privileged knowledge that, in our context, it applies to a certain interpretation, then can it be though of as reasonable to apply the term to "represented" meaning something more akin to "how a given group's size is represented numerically in a population as seen in a vacuum"? I think the only think needed to believe that this is reasonable is to accept the idea of a subgroup within a larger group, which is implicit in the argument. For instance, I wouldn't (simply) say that "humans are overrepresented on the planet" even though we are the majority group, because I kind of feel like "represented" does, ultimately, have to have a point of reference. But, i feel like any instance of assigning ourselves to groups (i.e. race, although it could be anything--i bet the subgroup "fans of Slayer who hate pumpkin pie and are named Maury" is pretty underrepresented in law school) allows for the term represented to be used to describe our group's proportions within a larger group, so long as we accept that a group can be represented within a larger group without reference to an external group, similar to how we don't reference the rest of the planet when we suggest that, say, asians are underrepresented in america despite their being the majority of humans on the planet. (Oh, what? nobody cares about this discussion? Don't worry, I'm mentally prepared for that thought. Hopefully, if you've read this far, you are even a little--isn't this what lawyers do, after all? but just so it;s not a total waste of your time, here's a fun fact that I unabashedly stole from the internet: "all pandas in the world are on loan from China, and when a baby panda is born, by agreement, it is sent back to China to help expand the gene pool. The baby pandas are shipped back by FedEx". Now you know something that all them b!tches who just skipped to the very bottom don't). Similarly, caucasians are NOT underrepresented in america despite them being a minority on the planet, just by virtue of their larger (majority) percentage within a measured group. I see no problem with using this same logic to suggest that, if one minority group were to hit 51% of the law school population, they might be the de facto over-represented group for reasons other than the fact that they would definitely be overrepresented in the "classic" sense. But then, to reverse this logic, ALL other groups, including groups that could theoretically be "american minorities" but "law school majorities" could be seen as underrepresented, and, given the constrains of the phrasing, would then be "under-represented" minorities.

Thus, his interpretation is reasonable, so long as one is ignorant of the context that we are using it in. Might not be an issue of idiocy, but an opportunity to educate.

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jas1503
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Re: asian-american boost at some schools, disadvantage at some?

Postby jas1503 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:49 pm

Non-Minorities makeup around 76% of law school enrollment. Non-Minorities makeup about 77-78% of the US population. No one is discussing people who identify themselves as whites with being under-represented in law school, they're classified as the opposite. I don't think law schools are watching the fluctuations of the US population, then saying, "A few % points up or down makes a HUGE difference, let's tailor admission accordingly". These are guidelines, not set definitions.

Law schools are not going to stop recruiting minorities to make certain that they are reflective of the general population or start recruiting more non-minorities in order to treat a guideline as if it was a definition. I don't think it's far from common sense to assume that law deans might be thinking, " A large group of my applicants are non-minority. Can I add a few minority students without dropping my numbers and maybe create a little more diversity in the classroom."

Ti Malice
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Re: asian-american boost at some schools, disadvantage at some?

Postby Ti Malice » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:02 pm

jas1503 wrote:JBagel. Ti Malice. I have seen your posts in other topics, I don't reply to your crap because you are the worst type of people on the internet. You both are the insufferably dickheaded internet intellectual.

Whatever the reason that you've become emotional and defensive, understand that my posts in this topic are addressing OP and BK-to an extent. I'm not interested in any, single thing that you both post or any events in your life. Please, take your stupid internet debates somewhere else. I'd rather be shot in the balls than reply to any of your posts again.

Don't reply to me, I don't reply to you; everyone is happy!


LOL. The feeling is mutual. You are one of the most painfully stupid and ignorant people on this site. The idiotic nonsense you post is right in line with what someone would expect from some bumbling cretin with a 150.

sin fiery wrote:If you aren't trolling ITT and believe what you say, you probably shouldn't go to lawschool. You likely are terrible at the LSAT as you not only are ignorant of basic logic but argue specifically against it without actually providing reason. It's atrocious.


Nailed it. :lol: And not only on that point.

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jas1503
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Re: asian-american boost at some schools, disadvantage at some?

Postby jas1503 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:02 pm

You attach your self-worth to standardize test results? Bro, you must be tons of fun to hangout with.

You got me dude, scored 150 first take on my LSAT, while hungover from a crazy night out. I just retook it last Monday, but you're right though because LSAT determines your place in life. That's obviously why you're on the Supreme Court, because you walked in there one day and told them your LSAT score and b****** had to BOW DOWN!

I'm starting to think that you're so butt-hurt because you're Asian and I've offended you somehow. If that's the case, then whatever. I've lived in Beijing, Seoul, Singapore; 我会说一点儿汉语; And I've had this conversation about Asians applying to the same the schools plenty of times before with friends. I hope you stop overcompensating (for whatever it is that has you banging your keys on some TLS forum post) by posting fake intellectual bullsh*t online. :roll:

ETA: Choke on a giant bag of ****s
Last edited by jas1503 on Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

asian0L
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Re: asian-american boost at some schools, disadvantage at some?

Postby asian0L » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:28 pm

Ok, I have to ask... I kind of alluded to how ill informed I was on the subject earlier, but now I need to know where y'all are getting the information that asians all apply to the same schools. I've heard it before, from different people, but have always chickened out of asking for the source.

Is this just people being REALLY diligent and noticing on like LSN or something that some schools have a ton of asian applicants but others have none (i.e. incidentally noticed information), or is this perhaps some kind of common knowledge (like the ideas of which schools average lsat scores and which ones take the highest--no official statement/information, but widely known nonetheless), or is there some statistics published somewhere?

Just a note, I don't expect this information to relate to my OP, I'm simply curious. Especially since I didn't really hear it until recently, implying that it's not quite 'canonical' law school knowledge. But once I started digging around and reading asian specific threads, and asking around, lots of people seem to be saying this.

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jas1503
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Re: asian-american boost at some schools, disadvantage at some?

Postby jas1503 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:50 pm

asian0L wrote:Ok, I have to ask... I kind of alluded to how ill informed I was on the subject earlier, but now I need to know where y'all are getting the information that asians all apply to the same schools. I've heard it before, from different people, but have always chickened out of asking for the source.

Is this just people being REALLY diligent and noticing on like LSN or something that some schools have a ton of asian applicants but others have none (i.e. incidentally noticed information), or is this perhaps some kind of common knowledge (like the ideas of which schools average lsat scores and which ones take the highest--no official statement/information, but widely known nonetheless), or is there some statistics published somewhere?

Just a note, I don't expect this information to relate to my OP, I'm simply curious. Especially since I didn't really hear it until recently, implying that it's not quite 'canonical' law school knowledge. But once I started digging around and reading asian specific threads, and asking around, lots of people seem to be saying this.


You can find the information in different places online, if you look for it. For example: http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-school-diversity-rankings

If you're not a ballsack like Ti Malice and you hang around different people long enough, you get an idea of what's common and uncommon. Many Asians students tend to stay where there is already an Asian community-obviously not all do. There are other factors too, but I can't say that they contribute to the pattern of applying to the same schools or not.

sam62188
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Re: asian-american boost at some schools, disadvantage at some?

Postby sam62188 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:46 am

asian0L wrote:Ok, I have to ask... I kind of alluded to how ill informed I was on the subject earlier, but now I need to know where y'all are getting the information that asians all apply to the same schools. I've heard it before, from different people, but have always chickened out of asking for the source.


Well in general Asians American populations are not distributed evenly throughout the country. Most Asians Americans live along the Pacific Coast, the Northeast, Texas, and I'm sure a few places as well. This is partly due to the fact that past Asian immigrants didn't have much education and needed to rely on previously established immigrant enclave neighborhoods to succeed in the US. So it makes sense that their children feel more comfortable going to a school nearby.

Ti Malice
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Re: asian-american boost at some schools, disadvantage at some?

Postby Ti Malice » Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:04 pm

Just take a look at your posts on this thread and then tell me who's "butthurt" here. :lol:

You're the angry one, dude. I just think you're an idiot.

jas1503 wrote:You attach your self-worth to standardize test results?

RC fail. In your case, I just think that it's a good indicator of your shit reasoning ability.

You got me dude, scored 150 first take on my LSAT, while hungover from a crazy night out.

Thanks for the context. This certainly makes you seem much more intelligent.

you're right though because LSAT determines your place in life.

Wouldn't go that far, but it does have a pretty big impact if you want to work in a law-related area. Which is why people who aren't imbeciles don't show up to the test hungover after crazy nights out.

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jbagelboy
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Re: asian-american boost at some schools, disadvantage at some?

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:14 pm

Ti Malice wrote:
You got me dude, scored 150 first take on my LSAT, while hungover from a crazy night out.

Thanks for the context. This certainly makes you seem much more intelligent.



lol yes, despite the intended effect of this statement, it simply reinforced the notion that you are a true shithead. I don't know how you could think that it would impress people online that you threw away $160 and half your day because you couldn't make appropriate priorities for one evening. Sure, I didn't go out or smoke much in the weeks leading up to my LSAT in order to focus on studying -- if that makes me a tool, so be it -- but I sure as hell was hungover each day for a week after I got my 99th percentile. If you can't appreciate delayed gratification, your life is fucked. And I'm sure based on what I've seen from Ti Malice and where I know his future is headed (golden), he'll have more fun and go out more this year than you'll have for the rest of your life.

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CyanIdes Of March
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Re: asian-american boost at some schools, disadvantage at some?

Postby CyanIdes Of March » Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:38 pm

jas1503 wrote:By that definition, yes. Your idea of over-representation is different from mine.


Well yours is wrong.

jas1503 wrote:You got me dude, scored 150 first take on my LSAT, while hungover from a crazy night out.


Not to pile on (I hate when TLS gets all hive-mind like), but man... why admit that? Was that suppose to show how much "you just don't care", or be a legitimate excuse for a sub-par score? All it does is re-affirm that you are an immature dolt who has a weak grasp on logic in general, both in this thread and demonstrably through standardized testing, and on your priorities in life. Going off on someone because they are "internet intellectuals" and talking about how lame they must be in social circles just makes you out to be an insufferable douche. I'd rather hang out with an internet intellectual who brags about a good LSAT score than someone who is too cool to stay sober 1 night before a test that would likely save him thousands of dollars in the long run.

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jas1503
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Re: asian-american boost at some schools, disadvantage at some?

Postby jas1503 » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:35 pm

You've both decided not to choke on the bag of d***s then.

I like how you're now posting in sequence from dullest to dumbest. I thought we had an arrangement to stop posting to each other.

I'm starting to understand why few people want to admit to posting on TLS forum in real life, because a few tools seem to spoil the reputation of the many...Really wish you'd find something else to do besides replying to my posts. Also hope that if your life starts or ends with any exam, then you properly see about ending it for the good of mankind.

In the future, when you considering dragging me into another one of your boring, fake intellectual hissyfits:Image

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jbagelboy
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Re: asian-american boost at some schools, disadvantage at some?

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:00 pm

jas1503 wrote:I'm starting to understand why few people want to admit to posting on TLS forum in real life, because a few tools seem to spoil the reputation of the many..


For the record (not directed towards you jas, everyone stopped caring), yes, there's certainly a stigma against using online forums (anti-social, cloistered, even creepy and seductionist come to mind), yet what plagues TLS most in the public eye is a penchant for and the spreading of misinformation. Misinformation like what you have presented. People mock TLS for creating and perpetuating bullshit; it's anticipated that people will spat and be immature and insult each other in near total anonymity, but so long as it has legitimate information, there is still a value. When you post bullshit, that's what dilutes that value of the site.

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banjo
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Re: asian-american boost at some schools, disadvantage at some?

Postby banjo » Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:42 pm

When I was researching schools, I remember seeing that 8% of Chicago's student body was Asian American, whereas CLS's most recent entering class was 24% Asian. That alone doesn't prove much, but I wouldn't be surprised if CLS had a higher yield among Asian Americans than Chicago, which could translate into a small difference in the admissions process (i.e. slightly easier to get into Chicago if you're Asian). Asian families value lay prestige and probably feel more comfortable in a highly cosmopolitan city like New York.




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